[IceRyder]

OK, I know this is a Lilly fan thread but I can't help but disagree with all of your reasonings. Those points is something a fan(which I know you are) would say.

The Real Lilly Caul was nothing but a hypocritical, cold, paranoid, unreasonable, whiney, selfish, cowardly, lazy, backstabbing, murderous bitch.

I appreciate her leadership skills, her selflessness (having to make all those little decisions is really difficult) and her reasoning. She tried to keep this group together, she did her very best but some other people...like Kenny always tried to have it their way, always consider what's only best for his family.

Her idea of staying safe was staying at the Pharmacy, it's obvious she was clueless and didn't know what she was doing. She selfishly was willing to let Lee, Kenny and the rest to die and just stood there while her Dad was talking about throwing out a little kid. Even after the heart attack, she ran up to the guys that she didn't want to help and begged them to help her dad, good thing they had the heart to help. After meeting her, it's clear she was a Terrible Leader.

I see you condemn Kenny for only doing things for his family but that's where you're wrong, he's actually a better leader. At the Pharmacy, he took charge and decided to help Larry even though he had no reason(trying to throw his son out) but he still did, he played a key role in getting the group out of the pharmacy, went back to save someone who was not his family member(Lee) after he was left for dead by Lilly's dad and made the decision to fix the RV(in which Lilly was against) and we all know how useful that turned out to be. He even had the guts to take the food from the station wagon(against Lilly's wishes).

I think we all agree it was difficult giving the rations the first time in episode two. We got a glimpse of what she has to do every day. People hated us for those choices, so they hate her even more for having to do it every day. But there's no one else who would do it.

OK, the only one that seemed to be negative to Lilly was Kenny and only Kenny. Nobody else and if you don't give it to the kids including Clem who is also not Kenny's family, he'll be pissed with you. Lilly was over exaggerating thinking people hated her because she's insane. Besides, I'm sure rationing food was not as hard as going out in Walker infested woods to find it(Kenny, Mark, Lee), compared to them, she doesn't have it so bad.

She was still pretty reasonable until Kenny murdered her father. People can complain that he saved them and all that crap... but you couldn't have known for sure and that's the truth. He overreacted and again being the selfish asshole he is, he did the easiest choice for him. Eliminate the enemy and undermine the leader's authority.

Reasonable? She acted like you owed her father something! If you don't give him food, she'll tell you "that's cold" at the farm even though she knows that he already tried to kill you after you saved his life and constantly treated you and everybody else like thrash and expected you to do favours for him. She expected everybody to put up with his crap. And don't tell me she didn't know, Kenny & Clementine witnessed it and if Mark the new guy knows about then surely everybody at the camp knows, basically, the group is not big enough so there is no place for her to hide from the truth. And she even doesn't listen to Kenny's advice on leaving Macon, she's only staying just for the drug store for her dad(and you say that Kenny makes decisions for his family?)

And killing Larry. Put it this way, if he came back as a Walker, it would've been more difficult to take him out considering they had no weapons. Kenny had a reason to do what he did especially against a guy that didn't give his son the benefit of the doubt. What was Lilly's reason for murdering Carley? Nothing!

In episode 3 we see things haven't changed. Lily is still the only one to really tries to protect the group. Lee, of course, helps always and as much as he can, but others like Kenny... they didn't even feel bad for what they did in

No, Lilly was being lazy like always. Sitting her ass at the motel doing nothing and sends Lee & Kenny to scavenge food, Yeah, make the guy with a gun shot wound get supplies. That would keep you alive right?. And Kenny looked traumatized for what he did to Larry, he even said sorry.

episode 2. Kenny ruined this group and yet he still wanted things to go his way. He kept pushing Lily without really doing anything for the group. He was determined to abandon all.

OK, Kenny was looking for food & fixing the RV, yeah, how is that doing nothing, Lilly on the other hand was sitting her ass doing nothing. Kenny was the one that suspected the St Johns up to no good while Lilly was clueless, didn't want him snooping around. Kenny saved the group, out of the two, he was the only one that had the balls to do anything. And how did he abandon all? he even asked Lee if he wanted to come with, and in the end he took everybody including the one that didn't want him fixing it(Lilly)

Carley... she didn't really do anything. She could've stepped in and helped Lily when she saw she was about to snap... but she didn't. The only thing she actually did was tease Lee, look cute, and avoid participation in almost every important discussion. The downfall in episode 3 is partially her fault as well.

Seriously???
You're blaming Carley and saying she did nothing? Really??
Who saved Lee twice, who assisted him and discovered the motel, who assisted him to the farm, who went back to save the group from the St Johns, who shot Andy St John in the ear that gave Lee enough time to get the gun away from him, who helped lee fight off bandits and walkers.
And you say that's nothing? She did more then what Lilly has ever done.

And how was the downfall her fault? We have not witnessed one group discussion, is it because she didn't want to get involved in the Lilly/Kenny conflicts which was smart on her part. Blaming her is like saying it's the rape victims fault that they were raped.

When the bandits attacked the group it was again Lily that came to the rescue to a group that hated her.

She did it to save her own ass, she was lucky the bandits didn't execute the rest of the group after the shot she took. And don't forget, Kenny's RV got them out of there as well, the RV in which Lilly told him was a waste of time.

Kenny wouldn't swallow my disrespect for him and actually tried to get me killed too many times in this episode.

Explain how he nearly got you killed?
He saved your ass countless times, it was Lilly who nearly got you killed by nearly letting you die in Ep2, by sending you out to find more food in a Walker infested city.

Ben... and Kenny really started a chain reaction. With both their stupidity combined they managed to indirectly kill Carley, Katjaa and Duck as well destroy the group from within.

Ben got Katjaa & Duck killed. Your hero Lilly murdered Carley for no dam reason. Kenny saved the group with the RV and from Larry(to prevent him from turning). Lilly was the one that ripped the group apart.

Both cowards and both DUBM as a bag of hammers.

Lilly had no balls to kill someone to their face, she waited until their back was turned and stole the RV because she's a true COWARD. She was dumb enough to believe the Motel was safe.

She's a hypocrite and a liar, So it's okay to let people get eaten in the streets(kenny's group) and woods(Ben's group) because it could jeopardise the group but it's not okay to let people get eaten in the streets even though it could jeopardise the group(Woman on the street). She's Unreasonable & Whiney, Kenny tries telling her Motels not safe, but she doesn't listen, that put the group in jeopardy from the bandit attack, she volunteers you for stuff such as going to the Farm and even if you reject that, she riles everyone up for you to go, and she has the nerve to tell you why you brought her there even though she sent you out there in the first place.

She's lazy, sits at the motel doing nothing and sends other people to do shit she should be taking part in. And lastly, she's a paranpoid murderer, she killed an innocent person for no reason, that makes her much worse then what Kenny did to her dad. She was pressuring Ben to admitting it was her when she had no proof then killed her because she defended herself, how can people justify what she did. I know she lost her dad but that doesn't give her a good reason. If she killed Carley, who never did a damn thing to her, then she'll kill anyone and the comics prove it. She didn't even look sorry after killing Carley, she still tried to justify her actions and you say Kenny was never sorry, what about Lilly?

Lastly, she's a selfish backstabbing bitch, she puts lee on the spot whether you sided with her or not by telling Kenny that you're a murderer, hoping to cause some tension between the two and steals the RV after you were kind enough to take her, Kenny fixes the RV and she takes it, killing you and others including Clementine, the sweet little girl that you say cares about her. The RV was useless but she did not know that, she did it to save herself, if she wanted to part ways with dignity, she should've ran instead of taking something that left the people that protected you for months vulnerable.

Bottom Line, your arguments for her make no sense, it's like you took traits from other characters and placed them on Lilly.

I see some people compare her to Rick Grimes? Unless he starts killing innocent people and is lazy then he's more like Lilly but She's more like Shane Walsh. Both are Lazy, both send other people to do things, both refuse to help people even their own group, both are backstabbers and both kill innocent people though Lilly does have extra aspects that make her worse.

Lilly is worse than Shane & Lori(TV series) put togeather.