Control Scheme?

[promke]

Well might it be possible ot get btt?
W&G is a great game and kudos for making it but this is the MI forum!

Might it be possible to get mouse only input as an additional input method?
I love to lean back and just explore everything one handed.
"The more rules a game has the less fun it is" somebody once told me. I would like to compare this not always true statement to cotrols. The easier the better.

And please sir NickTTG stop taking it so Personal. We love TTG and just want to make good games even better. It is true many of us are just "clingy complaining dipshits" but try to look in to our more valid points.

[Imapus Sylicker]

Well, that tears it.

It seems Telltale is sticking with the keyboard.

It's their right, and in a way, I thank them.

Because it means less money coming out of my pocket.

Scalded as I was with Wallace & Gromit, I simply could not resist not buying Monkey Island.

But henceforthwirth, with the possible exception of any other Monkey Island series, nary a penny of mine shall go Telltale ever again.

Not that they'd mind, though.

Cheers!

[darkowl]

The biggest problem with the W&G control scheme, for me, is that it destroys immersion and uses some obscure control combinations - shift, mousewheel, etc. - weird!

It's gone from a PC suitable interface - mouse for S&M - to a console-hacked compromise (probably to suit it to the Wii control stick).

But here's the real killer for me - it has a tendency to bugger up the animation. If you walk Gromit (or Wallace for that matter) into a wall in W&G, the walk cycle looks painfully computer generated and stilted - he goes from being a character who could genuinely exist in the world he's in, to a computer-driven pawn moving in a stilted fashion against a series of invisible barriers. Also, the jilted transitions that force movement in one of eight directions (as the PC doesn't have analogue control from WASD) only exacerbate the problem.

I don't see why, when the mouse control worked well in S&M, we seem to be going backwards here - affecting animation and immersion - just to cater for the console tards...

[promke]

Ain't that a little childish? "I dun get mah cuukeh so yo are not mah parents any moah"
*grumbling* and kickin stones
Well take your time and think about it. You would miss some good games i guess.

[Armakuni]

It's not childish to let a developer know you're dissatisfied with their design.
And it's also very understandable - this is Monkey Island we're talking about!

[Bagge]

Seriously? You're doing the WASD-thing again? Adventure game controls were more or less perfected around 1995 when Full Throttle came out. Why do we get less intuitive controls FOURTEEN years leater?

[promke]

No it is not. That is why I am here too.
It is childish to say I don't get what I want so I am not buying anything from you ever again. That is just unreasonable.

[Armakuni]

No, it's not. A company starts using a design which kills the fun for someone, then that user is not childish to voice his opinion in the forums stating that he won't buy future games using this design.

[Philski]

Is it at all possible to implement both control types? I found that the Secret Files games (at least on the Wii) done a pretty good job of allowing the player to use either just the Wii remote or the Nunchuck and Remote combo.

Personally I would have though that this sort of arrangement makes everyone happy.

I understand the desire for first person controls - especially on a console; it arguably makes it more immersive and the control scheme is more conventional to modern gamers. That being said I think that the first person controls end up alienating many of the traditional adventure audience.

Admittedly I haven't tried out W&G yet - this is predominantly because of the systems they are currently on; I don't have an Xbox and W&G doesn't motivate me enough to use bootcamp. Monkey Island however is a different matter entirely and will happily buy both versions - but my finger did waver on the purchase button due to concern about controls. Monkey Island 4 I really only found playable on the PS2 (this is the only MI game I've only ever completed once - and not because I didn't enjoy it) and and I could never complete Grim Fandango or Broken Sword 3 simply because I couldn't get to grips with the controls. My loss, I realise.

We finally have a console that is so well tailored to classic point and click adventures, it seems a pity not to harness this. I'm all for first person controls for consoles that only have gamepads (Broken Sword on GBA worked pretty well), but those systems that are pointer based still feel far more intuitive to me. Having just spent the entire evening watching my girlfriend trying to jump onto a platform in Lego Indy (she managed to get to the idol in the first level after three hours then gave up and went to bed) I would honestly say that first person control isn't for everyone.

But hey, when all is said and done, controls are controls, the important thing is... WE HAVE A BRAND NEW MONKEY ISLAND GAME

[promke]

NO that is not what was being said!

But henceforthwirth, with the possible exception of any other Monkey Island series, nary a penny of mine shall go Telltale ever again.

I guess i don't have to repeat myself and let us get btt please.

[Alucard]

People always fall back to the whole "but what about Grim Fandango? That was a great game" thing. Point and click is the way to go. I'd love to see a return to the way MI/MI2 did it. The golden years....

[Imapus Sylicker]

Originally Posted by promke

No it is not. That is why I am here too.
It is childish to say I don't get what I want so I am not buying anything from you ever again. That is just unreasonable.

Ok, so it's childish. And a way to tell them that I, at least, am extremely dissatisfied with this also unreasonable stubornness with the damned keyboard.

I'm not calling them names, or anything. Nor will I. It's their right to do games as they see fit.

[Imapus Sylicker]

Originally Posted by Armakuni

No, it's not. A company starts using a design which kills the fun for someone, then that user is not childish to voice his opinion in the forums stating that he won't buy future games using this design.

Thank you for having enough intellect to understand something fairly simple.

And I do mean thank you. I really wish there were more people like you.

Edit: dammit, everytime I read this post, it strikes me as being sarcastic towards you. Let me assure you, I'm not.

[Bagge]

Originally Posted by Alucard

People always fall back to the whole "but what about Grim Fandango? That was a great game" thing. Point and click is the way to go. I'd love to see a return to the way MI/MI2 did it. The golden years....

Grim Fandango was a fantastic game, but that was despite the controls, not because of them.

[Imapus Sylicker]

Originally Posted by Bagge

Grim Fandango was a fantastic game, but that was despite the controls, not because of them.

I've always said that. People always misunderstood it, for some reason.

[promke]

Well let me say this:
We have to listen to each other. I can totally understand your point of view and I do tolerate it. But I don't understand why nobody from Telltale is willing to talk to us about this issue in a way that is not defensive but open minded. I do want an objective explanation why the mouse control is not possible technically or k+m is superior to mouse only.

[Imapus Sylicker]

Originally Posted by promke

Well let me say this:
We have to listen to each other. I can totally understand your point of view and I do tolerate it. But I don't understand why nobody from Telltale is willing to talk to us about this issue in a way that is not defensive but open mided. I do want an objective explanation why the mouse control is not possible technically or k+m is superior to mouse only.

And EVERYBODY here tried AGAIN AND AGAIN to get someone from Telltale to talk to us about this subject in an open minded manner, but it was ALWAYS talked about defensively.

They even went so far as to tell us "Try it, you'll like it", over and over again.

WE TRIED! We didn't like it.

Noone gets the point. I stop spending money.

2+2=4, 2 and 2=22.

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by Laserschwert

Yeah, but that thread - though started as a feedback thread - was more a thread for the developers to defend the new control system. Criticism towards the controls wasn't really acknowledged, but more reacted to with counter-arguments...

Originally Posted by Hero1

Have you moved into PR Nick? Due to current market place realities a new control system must be implemented...

Wow, that's really disappointing. Telltale's the most transparent and receptive to fan feedback of any company I've seen, much less worked at (hence the announcement of a series that is the most requested by fans since the company was founded). To see that get dismissed as PR-speak or refusing to listen is a shame.

Members of the team have taken the time to explain why we make the decisions we do, and they're dismissed as PR speak. Some have come into the forums to solicit feedback and to explain how and why certain approaches work better than others, and why some won't work within our constraints, and that's dismissed as "counter-arguments." We've said repeatedly we want our games to play well on as many platforms as we can handle, and that's dismissed as "going after the money." (PROTIP: If you're looking to make a fortune in game development, don't make adventure games. Only do it if it's a labor of love for a style of game you like playing and want to see move forward).

If the feedback is "just go back to point and click," then no, you're not going to get the answer you're looking for. It doesn't work well on consoles -- we've all played games that try to simulate a mouse on consoles, and they're all pretty much awful -- but that's not the only reason. As far as I'm concerned, after 8 episodes of Sam & Max (I started halfway through season 1), 5 episodes of Strong Bad, and Monkey 3, seeing something as simple as the hallway in Wallace & Gromit's house is a god-send. You don't have to look at the world from the side anymore, as if everything's on a stage. We can have rooms with 4 real walls. We can make more use of vertical space, and circular space, and let you go anywhere we want.

And most importantly: we can make games that really make use of the environment and make you feel as if you're in a place, instead of looking at a puzzle game. Is it going to be perfect right off the bat? Of course not, and that's why we're looking for feedback. But "go back to the way it's always been done" isn't the answer we're looking for; we're trying to move things forward.

We're obviously not going to implement every bit of feedback, because even if that weren't completely impossible, some of the feedback is counter to what we're trying to do. And when we can, we'll explain why we choose to do the things we do. The only criticism that's not welcome is accusing us of not listening, because that's demonstrably false.

[splash1]

Originally Posted by Guybrush Threepwood

Which I guess means it's going to be the Wallace & Gromit control scheme.

No, I figured it out, I think... It's going to be arrow keys and point and click for the PC, and for the Wii.. Nun-chuck and Pointer, that's what they mean by it.

Also, to reply to all the Wallace & Gromit game control critics, I think it's easier to use the arrow keys, it takes the relief off of using the mouse, sense I think a lot of people already know, I've been favoring using the arrow keys in Telltale adventures for a while now. Also, while I'm on the subject of character control, will Guybrush be able to run? Unlike Wallace?

[promke]

Well yes do that. I am not quite there yet.
I am that optimistical guy that is trying to change the world...
i do have some hope left.

Soo Telltale mind to comment?

edit: uhm sry late to the party commeting later after i read

well ok

I am fine with the Wii controls. It is the best you came up with and that is fine.
But on the Pc there is imho a better way of doing it (pnc).
Imagine a crack in a wall that you can only crawl through. Well you do crawl through it but after that you are going to walk up straight again. No need to crawl anymore.
Same with controls. What works best on Wii does not necessarily work best on Pc.