Control Scheme?

[Udvarnoky]

I'm actually actively hoping for the new Monkey Island to have similar controls to that of W&G. Direct control for movement and point 'n click for everything else seems like a good way to have the freedom of composition that a 3D game should without the annoyances associated with having to control both movement and direction through separate input. And although I'm most definitely buying this for PC, such a control scheme will work perfectly with WiiWare given the pointer and the nunchuk.

I don't get all the controversy, honestly. W&G's controls were fine. It's nothing more than the same point 'n click interface but you move the character with arrow keys. That's literally the only difference. The reasons for going direct control in that regard were stated and make sense, and even if you can't understand them, is that one difference really a deal breaker to anyone who isn't crazy? Even if somebody had a problem with the controls, unless they were unbelievably bad they would have to be considered a subordinate issue to the story, writing, humor, and, you know, the things that actually make for a good Monkey Island game. Although I think they're yelled about more than necessary, I could at least see a case made about the Grim/EMI controls being offensive. But W&G's controls are manageable at absolute worse.

[moomoocow]

Originally Posted by Masquerade

Did Grim have bad controls per se? Or was it merely a case of the automatic collision reversal, IE: getting too close to a wall automatically turned Manny away from it, that irritated most?

Controls do matter in games. Yet I think dismissing them before anyone has had a chance to use or spend anytime with them is a bit hasty. I know countless games that have rather peculiar control setup(Monster Hunter on the PS2, for one) but after the initial battle and overcoming your preconceptions of what they should be - they settle into their own groove.

I think every aspect of the game controls was horribly flawed in Grim Fandango.
Keyboard or gamepad movement in adventures is like point & click in first person shooters and I just can not believe it can be implemented in a non-annoying way. I still have some hope though

Originally Posted by Udvarnoky

Even if somebody had a problem with the controls, unless they were unbelievably bad they would have to be considered a subordinate issue to the story, writing, humor, and, you know, the things that actually make for a good Monkey Island game.

MI4 had its funny moments and yet when I think about it the horrible controls defined the lasting image of this piece of software.

[der_ketzer]

Originally Posted by moomoocow

MI4 had its funny moments and yet when I think about it the horrible controls defined the lasting image of this piece of software.

There was that horrible puzzle in the new scummbar that drove me really mad.

[moomoocow]

Originally Posted by Udvarnoky

I don't get all the controversy, honestly. W&G's controls were fine. It's nothing more than the same point 'n click interface but you move the character with arrow keys. That's literally the only difference.

This aint the only difference. You also get

a) alternating camera angles disrupting a fluid gameplay (they annoyed me alot)
b) generally weaker graphics (compare the low-res textured floors and walls of W&G to the beautiful S&M backgrounds). It just looks like any mediocre 3D-game with no style left.
c) a bad inventory system (though I expect at least that one to be improved as the control scheme shouldnt matter much here)
d) mini-cutscenes interrupting gameplay when you do not expect them (as just walking close to something seems to trigger some annoying stuff)
e) frustrating walk here, walk there which takes a lot more time to do as you no longer have a quick walk function
f ) The awkward feel of having to use both hands.

And all that for some creative freedom in designing the scenes (what I still consider a nonsense-PR-argument made up by Telltale). PC gamers are certainly not on the bright side in this one as in the end all we get is a game which feels like lazy and unfinished console port (just like W&G).

If it wasnt Telltale who produced this game and we could blame some less favored company like EA or Lucas Arts all hell would break lose. Unfortunately people seem to be more forgiving when it comes to poor Telltale Games ruining a great franchise to make some quick console dollars.

[der_ketzer]

Originally Posted by moomoocow

a) alternating camera angles disrupting a fluid gameplay (they annoyed me alot)
b) generally weaker graphics (compare the low-res textured floors and walls of W&G to the beautiful S&M backgrounds). It just looks like any mediocre 3D-game with no style left.

The graphics of WG are absolutely brilliant. It was designed to look like a clay animotion movie and it really does. That has nothing to do with the controls.

[Karma313th]

Just had to throw in my $2.00 worth of comments since it seems relatively few are weighing in on the "pro" side of the new controls.

Could the W&G control scheme be improved? Sure.

Is it the devil spawn some are making it out to be? Far from it.

Personally, I've loved Telltale's games since Bone came out (with the exception of Strong Bad, just never got into it) and I have to admit I was thrilled to see the controls change from mouse clicks to keyboard.

Part of it is that my Telltale games tend to stay on my laptop to keep me entertained on business trips, and I absolutely hate the touchpad. Especially when it comes to games, multiple swipes to move a cursor aren't fun.

That aside, I've never felt right playing Sam & Max or Bone using a mouse.

I'll agree for Monkey Island 1, 2 and The Curse of Monkey Island, mouse clicking was fantastic. Particularly for Curse of Monkey Island since it just felt right with the art style.

When adventure games started making the jump to 3D mouse clicking just seemed wrong. There's just something incongruous with clicking on a flat plane to move in 3 dimensions.

That's part of why I loved Frogware allowing direct control (keyboard) in their most recent Sherlock Holmes adventures. Similarly, I was pleasantly surprised when I found Wallace & Gromit had changed to a direct control system.

To condense my much too long rambling, despite the five pages of complaint, Telltale, don't feel compelled to change something that's obviously working well enough for the presumably silent majority.

[NickTTG]

Originally Posted by moomoocow

b) generally weaker graphics (compare the low-res textured floors and walls of W&G to the beautiful S&M backgrounds). It just looks like any mediocre 3D-game with no style left.

you might have lost all credibility with this statement. i think the quality of the graphics are the one thing critics could all agree on. And the style of the game is that of Aardman's... The award winning universally loved claymation studio?

[MusicallyInspired]

I've been waiting to voice my opinion on the controls because I hadn't yet come to a conclusion on what I think about them. We still don't know enough information yet. I'll make an informed statement after I've played it. I just hope that the controls are customizable for the PC as I can't stand playing games with WASD. I instead use the numpad arrows.

[der_ketzer]

Originally Posted by MusicallyInspired

I instead use the numpad arrows.

I prefere the arrow keys. all 3 should be predefined in the game if I read the thread correctly.

[MusicallyInspired]

I prefer the numpad because your thumb can be further away from the rest of your fingers instead of all cramped together. I don't use the same finger for the down and up arrows. I use my thumb for the down arrow and my middle finger for the up arrow (instead of the middle finger for both up and down as most people seem to do it). This is because I like to walk backwards as quickly as I can without having to switch my finger back and forth between two keys. It's just too awkward to do that for me in a D-Arrows/WASD format.

[JackBurtonMe]

Broken Sword works very well on the Wii. No Nunchuck nonsense. Just point and click.

Please just listen, make it point and click.

[Pantagruel's Friend]

Originally Posted by moomoocow

If it wasnt Telltale who produced this game and we could blame some less favored company like EA or Lucas Arts all hell would break lose. Unfortunately people seem to be more forgiving when it comes to poor Telltale Games ruining a great franchise to make some quick console dollars.

Come on, this is just getting silly. What kind of hell would break lose? More ranting users on the bulletin boards (80 instead of 40)? And absolutely no response from the site staff? Some hell, that would be.

Also, accusing Telltale of going after only the money stands no ground whatsoever. It was said earlier in this thread that adventure games are anything but a goldmine (and I can believe that, since Telltale is producing like 60% of this genre's output), and also, being familiar with the prices in the Telltale Store, they're quite reasonable and don't compare to the prices of those companies who ask 1.5 times the price of a Telltale season for a game that lasts twice as long as one single episode (and I'm even being optimistic here).

I won't even comment on the remarks about the W&G gfx...

[Catokuken]

Ive been waiting so long for this, almost giving it up.. Mouse or keyboard - HIT THAT SHIT!

[moomoocow]

Originally Posted by NickTTG

you might have lost all credibility with this statement. i think the quality of the graphics are the one thing critics could all agree on. And the style of the game is that of Aardman's... The award winning universally loved claymation studio?

I was not talking about the character animations or certain more detailed objects populating the game world. I talk about things like floors, ceilings and walls which lack detail compared to hand-drawn images because a floor made of a plane with a texture put on it simply cannot look as good as a hand-drawn image which naturally is much more detailed. However I shouldnt have put that up here as this only remotely touches the aspect of game controls when it comes to the point of 2D vs. 3D. To summarize what I mean. Yes with the new controls you may be able to create a more diverse, less limited world with more details to explore (as the player can see more things) but on the other end certain things will be less detailed compared to traditional hand-drawn 2D-games (this goes for stuff like floors, ceilings, walls, trees, etc.).

So calm down. Except for the game controls of W&G and some minor glitches which you can find in any game I was generally happy with the Telltale games I have played (I would not be here otherwise) and I am just VERY annoyed by your decision to stick to a control scheme which I hate and fortunately does not seem to be favored by a majority of people to use it in a game which could potentially be the best adventure in a long time.

I´m just afraid this game and S&M3 might add to my personal wall of gaming letdowns along with titles such as Grim Fandango, MI4 or Kings Quest 8 and this is not good as I was looking forward to a new Monkey Island for too long.

[Rather Dashing]

A few choice scenes of Wallace and Gromit are warming me to the controls...

I'd honestly be very happy either way, as long as Telltale continues to improve and work on the PC controls. My main worry with direct control is that the PC version is getting something added in at the expense of a good product for the benefit of Telltale selling on a platform I'm not going to use....but if they go direct control and it is better than Wallace and Gromit, I suppose I'll be glad.

[Dilorenzo]

Ok, started reading this thread... kept reading as long as I could, and now I'm just gonna skip to the end and say:

The first Monkey Island is one of the first games I ever played all the way to completion. It's one of the only games that now, nearly 20 years on, I still play every once in a while. Followed the series through, of course, as you do, and I even enjoyed the hell out of Monkey Island 4, the much maligned red-headed stepchild of the group.

As long as the humor, the puzzles, and that indescribable itch at the base of your scalp is the same as the previous games (and having played a few Telltale Games, I'm happily secure that they will be), it could require that I learn to play the frickin' OBOE and I would do it.

Adapt to new controls, or don't. Play a game you've been asking for for years, or bitch and moan and whine and THEN play a game you've been asking for for years. Yes, there are plenty of you whining who are going to pick this up anyway, you know it.

[Diduz]

Seriuosly, guys, I guess we're in full over-reacting mode here.
I wasn't a supporter of direct control, but I think this moaning is becoming weird. I guess we all should be supportive and try to elaborate and/or create ways to improve what Telltale has chosen to do. Asking them to revert a strong decision is pointless. Derrick did a great thing creating the hack to mouse-control W&G but... guess what... I had already become used to joypad control and now I'm using that!
I've already posted in another thread some suggestions: optional character-relative movement (great for keyboard users, IMHO), support for more gamepads...

[moomoocow]

Well when it comes to suggestions I´d say :

1. Add arrows to the bottom of the screen we can click with the mouse cursor
2. Give the inventory a button somewhere and make that we dont have to scroll down single items
3. Stop the game from triggering cutscenes or dialogue when approaching objects. Such stuff should be triggered on mouseclicks in my opinion so people can safely navigate to their destination without being interrupted.

Aside from that I dont have many ideas on how to make keyboard controls better. Not that many shades of grey between black and white here as it seems.

[Armakuni]

Arrows we can click with the mouse cursor would be better than nothing, I think.
Or like in that script - hold the right mouse button and move the mouse to control the character.

[moomoocow]

Maybe right-clicking out of the screen or on a certain button to switch through the different hotspots with your character automatically turning into the right direction and the hotspots being lit up and left-clicking the button to interact with the hotspot. This way we would need no character movement at all what would make it alot better than navigating with the keyboard.