Gamepad controls are BAD!

[Hitman]

Many of you have expressed their feelings about the lack of a true point and click interface for the movement, but I have nothing against it. In fact, I like it better to control the character directly and only use the mouse for objects. It worked excellent in Wallace and Gromit. As the producers pointed out in another topic, it's nearly impossible to make the character move "off screen" with a point and click interface. Plus, the games look much more cinematic this way, a thing that I greatly enjoy.

My complain is that the CONTROLLERS are just messed up. Why on earth make the game playable with a controller, if you still need the mouse to use objects? It just defies my comprehension. I wanted to use the XBOX 360 controller for ToMI, playing it away from the PC, but it seems that this will not be possible (I don't have the full game yet, I'm waiting for the DVD to come out). Wallace and Gromit had full support for the controller (probably because it came out on the 360 also). Now it just annoys me that I will not be able to play it properly with a controller. Who ever heard of a mouse and controller combination? "WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?"

Is there any chance for this abominable control scheme to change for the next episodes and have full controller support? The game would be just perfect if proper control for gamepads would be implemented. By proper control I mean the hotspot cycling system, just like in Wallace and Gromit! No mouse pointer whatsoever!

[GozzoMan]

Well, I would like complete gamepad support like W&G as well... only I would have asked with a little more aplomb...

[Hitman]

You should see me on thanksgiving!

But seriously now, I don't think that I was too "loud" about it. It's just that once you get a good control scheme for a gamepad, like in W&G, why on earth change it and leave the game half made (on the control side)? It makes no sense. Either do keyboard&mouse, or gamepad only.

And the trick of using the right stick as a mouse is not my idea of fun. It just doesn't work. Scanning the entire screen with a stick gets boring and irritating REALLY fast.

[smashing]

Hmm... I'm going on a hunch here, but I think the control makes a lot of sense with the wiimote and nunchuk. Scrolling around the screen with a pointer from the wiimote is great and using nunchuk for movement is quite natural too.

It is not that unnatural with mouse and keyboard as well, just that a manual could've helped much more in explaining which keys to use.

It is not made for the gamepad at the moment, as there are already a lot of signs that the game is being rushed. But Yare did comment on a locked post that they will definitely be working to improve controls, and making it work on a gamepad may not be that far from reality.

[Hitman]

That's good to hear. I also had a sneaky suspicion that the Wii is behind this semi-broken controller setup, with the stick in the left hand and the Wiimote acting as the mouse in the other. That's exactly why I would have preffered to see the game being released on the 360 instead of the Wii, just like they did with Wallace & Gromit. At least that would have ment decent gamepad input.

But here's the catch. If they improve future episodes to the hotspot method used in W&G, will they also update the first chapter at the time of the game's release on DVD?

[der_ketzer]

Originally Posted by Hitman

"WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?"

OMG the angry video game nerd.

[Hitman]

Exactly.

[smashing]

Originally Posted by der_ketzer

OMG the angry video game nerd.

At least this nerd is progressive and not retro. Not your typical "I want POINT AND CLICK" kinda anger.

Originally Posted by Hitman

That's good to hear. I also had a sneaky suspicion that the Wii is behind this semi-broken controller setup, with the stick in the left hand and the Wiimote acting as the mouse in the other. That's exactly why I would have preffered to see the game being released on the 360 instead of the Wii, just like they did with Wallace & Gromit. At least that would have ment decent gamepad input.

Argh! Not another 'wii-mote suck' comment!

As much as you may not like the wii, you have to admit to the fact that wii reaches to a different audience than the 360 will. Wiimote removes the stigma of the hardcore gamers, typically perceived as a guy with reflective spectacles, eating the pretzels, scratching his backside and focusing on nothing in the world, but the screen and firmly gripping on his gamepad in one hand. I believe it is really intentional to explore the wii as a platform, as adventure games are much more acceptable to the casual gaming crowd than the a lot of other genres.

[Shmeh]

I seem to remember reading a post about something to do with the hotspot selection not being completed by the time ep.1 was released. That is why the controller is only partially supported (assuming my memory is correct).

As for mouse and controller control for the game, you should try it before you knock it. It actually works really well. here's my opinion on stick+mouse control in more detail.

[Shmeh]

I think I found the post. It wasn't that they didn't get it completed, it was that they didn't have time to implement it at all.

Originally Posted by [TTG] Yare

Probably if a 360 or PSN port gets done. I was pulled on pretty late to get mouse controls going for MI, and there was no time to even think about getting the W&G hotspot selection stuff running.

MI branches from the Sam & Max scripts, and it doesn't really have much in common with the W&G scripts so porting tech from one to another takes some work.

[DPB]

Originally Posted by Shmeh

As for mouse and controller control for the game, you should try it before you knock it. It actually works really well. here's my opinion on stick+mouse control in more detail.

Only if you're right-handed.

[Hitman]

Originally Posted by smashing

Argh! Not another 'wii-mote suck' comment!

I have no problem with the Wii. I realize that there are different types of gamers out there. The Wii has its hits, but that's really not the point here. The point is that importing a Wii-type control method to the gamepads just doesn't work. If they had released the game on the 360, surely it would have been much easier to make a proper PC controller configuration.

Originally Posted by Shmeh

As for mouse and controller control for the game, you should try it before you knock it. It actually works really well. here's my opinion on stick+mouse control in more detail.

The way I see it, I either have to bring the mouse with me to play, or use some third party programs to map the mouse to the right stick. But the problem is that a stick isn't designed to work as a mouse, so scanning each scene can take a LOT of time-

Originally Posted by Shmeh

I think I found the post. It wasn't that they didn't get it completed, it was that they didn't have time to implement it at all.

Wow, thanks for that! So, basically, we're screwed. I don't think there are many chances to port the game to the 360 before the end of the season.

[Shmeh]

Originally Posted by DPB

Only if you're right-handed.

This post actually got me to pick up the controller to see what it would be like to try using the left stick with my right hand.

I suppose a left handed person could try using a gamepad key mapper to move the control to the right stick to get the same experience. I haven't needed to use one yet so I'm not sure how hard that would be.

Originally Posted by Hitman

The way I see it, I either have to bring the mouse with me to play, or use some third party programs to map the mouse to the right stick. But the problem is that a stick isn't designed to work as a mouse, so scanning each scene can take a LOT of time-

Yeah, I was suggesting taking the mouse with you as well as the controller, but thinking about it more, I now see how this could be more trouble for some people. A wired mouse might not reach, and a ball mouse wouldn't work on a couch cushion. So I could see how it might not be your best option.

[[TTG] Yare]

Originally Posted by Hitman

My complain is that the CONTROLLERS are just messed up. Why on earth make the game playable with a controller, if you still need the mouse to use objects? It just defies my comprehension. I wanted to use the XBOX 360 controller for ToMI, playing it away from the PC, but it seems that this will not be possible (I don't have the full game yet, I'm waiting for the DVD to come out). Wallace and Gromit had full support for the controller (probably because it came out on the 360 also). Now it just annoys me that I will not be able to play it properly with a controller. Who ever heard of a mouse and controller combination? "WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?"

There was no time to address gamepad support for ToMI on the PC. The controller half-works because our engine automatically treats the buttons like some keyboard keys, and the analog stick is routed to the same event handlers as the click+drag.

I'm not sure if you'll see hotspot cycling in ToMI since that tech hasn't been ported from W&G, but I'll probably make the right-stick move the cursor.

In the mean time, you can find programs like PadMappper to map the right stick to mouse movement, and play the game with just a controller.

[nofacej]

Originally Posted by Hitman

I have no problem with the Wii. I realize that there are different types of gamers out there. The Wii has its hits, but that's really not the point here. The point is that importing a Wii-type control method to the gamepads just doesn't work. If they had released the game on the 360, surely it would have been much easier to make a proper PC controller configuration.

Are you crazy!? The Wiimote's IR aiming is the closest thing on a console to a Mouse. The reason the controls are like they are has nothing to do with the Wii's capabilities. If you have a Wii try installing the homebrew channel and putting ScummVM on it. The first three Monkey Islands feel even better than they do with a mouse in my opinion.

[hansschmucker]

Maybe the WiiMote is capable of emulating a mouse, the problem here is that it doesn't work the other way around: The PC can't really emulate the WiiMote, At least not on a single device like a gamepad. You always need XY+Mouse.

[nofacej]

...the Wiimote's IR pointing and the way a mouse tracks movement can be interchanged perfectly. The Wii's technical specifications were not a limiting factor when Telltale chose the control scheme they did. They probably did choose to do it the way they did to appeal to Wii gamers, but the Wii is perfectly capable of handling a point and click interface. It already has games that use one, including the original Monkey Island games if you use the Homebrew Channel to launch ScummVM.

[OMA]

Originally Posted by [TTG] Yare

There was no time to address gamepad support for ToMI on the PC. The controller half-works because our engine automatically treats the buttons like some keyboard keys, and the analog stick is routed to the same event handlers as the click+drag.

I'm not sure if you'll see hotspot cycling in ToMI since that tech hasn't been ported from W&G, but I'll probably make the right-stick move the cursor.

In the mean time, you can find programs like PadMappper to map the right stick to mouse movement, and play the game with just a controller.

Thanks a lot for your reply Yare. I already raised a similar topic here, but it seems it went unnoticed:
http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/...ad.php?t=10482

Basically I had the same problem as the OP (Hitman), but in my case I find controlling the mouse with the second stick comfortable enough, so I could fix this emulating the mouse with XPadder.

Anyway, I'm glad to hear you will (probably) fix it natively in the game, so XPadder won't be needed anymore.

BTW, what's that PadMapper program you mention? I haven't been able to find it in Google.

[Hitman]

Originally Posted by [TTG] Yare

There was no time to address gamepad support for ToMI on the PC. The controller half-works because our engine automatically treats the buttons like some keyboard keys, and the analog stick is routed to the same event handlers as the click+drag.

I'm not sure if you'll see hotspot cycling in ToMI since that tech hasn't been ported from W&G, but I'll probably make the right-stick move the cursor.

Thanks for your answer! It's a shame that the PC version gets treated like an afterthought, something that kind of appeared at the last minute. Shouldn't the team have spent a little more time optimizing the controls and stuff, since this is such a popular franchise? I'd hate to see Telltale rush games. There was no real need to launch the game on the 7th of July anyway. It's not like there was year long hype behind it and a release date set in stone a year ago. No, the game was barely announced a month ago, so why the rush?

Well, that's disappointing, to say the least (the fact that there won't be a hot spot system).

Also, I don't understand something. Why make a game in the similar style as Wallace & Gromit (with the cool camera angles) and not use the same engine that was used in that game? The games share the same design concept, but you decided to use a different engine. I get a feeling that Wii owners get priority treatment, to say the least.

Originally Posted by nofacej

...the Wiimote's IR pointing and the way a mouse tracks movement can be interchanged perfectly. The Wii's technical specifications were not a limiting factor when Telltale chose the control scheme they did.

You're missing the point here. Didn't you read what the user above you just said? No one said that it wouldn't be fitting for mouse movement, but the problem is the CONTROLLERS. You can't make point and click with a controller. So there has to be some sort of hot spot implemented.

[[TTG] Yare]

Originally Posted by Hitman

Also, I don't understand something. Why make a game in the similar style as Wallace & Gromit (with the cool camera angles) and not use the same engine that was used in that game? The games share the same design concept, but you decided to use a different engine. I get a feeling that Wii owners get priority treatment, to say the least.

Same engine, but development of both titles was simultaneous by different teams in the studio so the scripts wound up forking. Can't really keep everything perfectly synchronized since there are different needs on each project, different deadlines, and so on.