What's your theory about the ending of Monkey Island 2 - LeChuck's Revenge?

[pilouuuu]

Originally Posted by prizna

Look,

Its obvious it wasnt all in Guybrush's imagination, you see Chuckies eyes at the end, this is telling you that Chuckie is not just a kid, also there would be no reason to add the clip of Elaine at the end if it didn't have any meaning and also saying it was all a kids imagination, is a cheat ending its just like saying it was all a dream which is a big no no in writting.

Yes, Ron Gilbert must clarify it all someday. But I'm pretty sure the "all was a dream" would be complete rubbish. I place my bets at the "spell" that Elaine mentions and something about the Big Whoop.

[prizna]

Originally Posted by pilouuuu

Yes, Ron Gilbert must clarify it all someday. But I'm pretty sure the "all was a dream" would be complete rubbish. I place my bets at the "spell" that Elaine mentions and something about the Big Whoop.

Thats just what i meant it would be stupid to end on "it was all a dream" kind of ending. I think it was a spell.

[RockNRoll]

Originally Posted by CaptnDan

Young Guybrush gets lost in a theme park, and his imagination runs wild. After a ride on Pirates of the Caribbean, he starts his own journey to become a Mighty Pirate. Distressed, his parents send his brother Chucky to find their missing son. In Guybrush's mind, Chucky became the evil pirate LeChuck, determined to destroy him. Elements of the real world seep into Guybrush's (vending machines, telephones etc.) , but it's not until their final confrontation, in the maintenance tunnels linking the different areas of the park, does Guybrush get the wake-up call he really needs....

I believe this is the secret. it makes perfect sense going through the entire first two games even from the opening seconds. guybrush just walks in from nowhere...from where? he's a boy who just wandered off of POTC. you even hear the sword fighting pirates on the trail straight up tell you: "it's pirate speak! it's how they talked back then. c'mon guybrush play along!" the staff only door, the maintenance tunnels, all the novelty items, signs and t-shirts, the way he talks, grog machine from MI1 down in storage in MI2, the health clinic, it's all obviously amusement park stuff going through his imagination. i think it's a beautiful plot line in that it totally changes the tone of the first game too, and doesn't ruin the tale at all. it's like the end of 6th sense or something. you realize what you thought were just silly anachronisms were actually reality. simply brilliant.

though the idea that it's a curse or time machine works well to allow for sequels, but i'm not sure that is real canon. it could be, but it can't be that simple, for all of the evidence listed above. i hope ron gilbert clears it all up one day and makes the true MI3. i fear that it's just too screwed up now for that to happen.

[prizna]

Originally Posted by RockNRoll

I believe this is the secret. it makes perfect sense going through the entire first two games even from the opening seconds. guybrush just walks in from nowhere...from where? he's a boy who just wandered off of POTC. you even hear the sword fighting pirates on the trail straight up tell you: "it's pirate speak! it's how they talked back then. c'mon guybrush play along!" the staff only door, the maintenance tunnels, all the novelty items, signs and t-shirts, the way he talks, grog machine from MI1 down in storage in MI2, the health clinic, it's all obviously amusement park stuff going through his imagination. i think it's a beautiful plot line in that it totally changes the tone of the first game too, and doesn't ruin the tale at all. it's like the end of 6th sense or something. you realize what you thought were just silly anachronisms were actually reality. simply brilliant.

though the idea that it's a curse or time machine works well to allow for sequels, but i'm not sure that is real canon. it could be, but it can't be that simple, for all of the evidence listed above. i hope ron gilbert clears it all up one day and makes the true MI3. i fear that it's just too screwed up now for that to happen.

If you belive its his imagination, what is your explination for chuckies eyes glowing, Elaine at the end of the game and the fact that he is not a kid in Curse of Monkey island.

[Rather Dashing]

Originally Posted by prizna

If you belive its his imagination, what is your explination for chuckies eyes glowing, Elaine at the end of the game and the fact that he is not a kid in Curse of Monkey island.

Curse doesn't count, at least in this discussion. Whatever the ending was INTENDED to mean, it wasn't communicated to those stuck with explaining it away in Curse.

Why did his eyes glow? It could be anything. For example, being a throw-away "Haha, the evil brother has won" and Guybrush's imagination lingering one more time.

Elaine's line could be interpreted many ways as well. The curse simply being "having to go home and leave his magical fantasy world".

I don't know what the intended meaning is, but I don't think that the whole amusement park idea was to be tossed away. I'm sure that the park was at least SOMEWHAT real. I think a lot of people balk at the idea that Guybrush could possibly be a kid because it "ruins" their interpretation of the character and his world. And I think some people attach to the world and don't feel like being dragged back to a boring reality along with their favorite oddly-named pirate.

[SHODANFreeman]

Originally Posted by PariahKing

My theory is the explanation at the end of CMI, because it's canon and accepted in the game's storyline. What Ron would have or wouldn't have done isn't relevant until if and when he makes his game.

PK, I agree with you completely, as usual.

[RockNRoll]

Originally Posted by prizna

If you belive its his imagination, what is your explination for chuckies eyes glowing, Elaine at the end of the game and the fact that he is not a kid in Curse of Monkey island.

Maybe just to mess with the viewer and definitely to leave things open to a sequel. Maybe Elaine was a little girl like guybrush who was also wrapped up in the fantasy, and she's left still imagining. Maybe the Ron Gilbert-planned sequel involved Guybrush going back into dreamland to get her. Who knows? Whatever the case, I am almost totally convinced that the amusement park is true on at least some significant level and was intended from the start of the series. How else would everything and every anachronism going back to the first moments of MI1 fit so perfectly? It's way beyond coincidence. Now, Gilbert said that there was more to it, and that no one has completely solved it, so I'm sure there is more to it on some level.

Oh one huge thing I forgot to mention: if you remember way back to the first game, talking to the voodoo lady before going to Monkey Island, she says something like "be careful! you will learn things about yourself and your world that will shake you to your core" but nothing like that ever really happened in MI1. It's obvious foreshadowing of the end of MI2, and fits perfectly with the fantasy idea. Whatever the case, there is definitely something going on with the pirate world that guybrush walks into, that's not what we assume at the beginning.

[prizna]

I know that the ending of LR could be taken so many different ways, but i believe that the glowing eyes and elaines line were there to tell you he is under some kind of spell. I just see it that if it was all in his imagination, it is kind of a cheat ending. This is just my opinion i know others may like this idea. I guess there is very little chance that we will ever find out what was actually meant to follow the ending of LR.

[Astro Gnocci]

If you belive its his imagination, what is your explination for chuckies eyes glowing, Elaine at the end of the game and the fact that he is not a kid in Curse of Monkey island.

Well, it could STILL be imagniation.
Look at calvin and hobbes for instance, even when we see in the final panels what's actually going on, calvin is still in his world and convinced he's a T-Rex or whatever.
Could very possibly be the same with guybrush, he's been disturbed in his fantasy, but somehow keeps thinking his brother is evil and that Elaine is waiting for him somewhere.

[prizna]

Originally Posted by Astro Gnocci

Well, it could STILL be imagniation.
Look at calvin and hobbes for instance, even when we see in the final panels what's actually going on, calvin is still in his world and convinced he's a T-Rex or whatever.
Could very possibly be the same with guybrush, he's been disturbed in his fantasy, but somehow keeps thinking his brother is evil and that Elaine is waiting for him somewhere.

I just think, because Chuckie is actually breaking the forth wall by looking at the screen when his eyes glow, because he looked at the screen i see it as being intended for the gamer, guybrush didnt see chuckies eyes glow so i dont think it is him still imagining.

[Astro Gnocci]

I just think, because Chuckie is actually breaking the forth wall by looking at the screen when his eyes glow, because he looked at the screen i see it as being intended for the gamer, guybrush didnt see chuckies eyes glow so i dont think it is him still imagining.

Well i don't know it this theory is right or not, and i don't care so much, but still.
Yeah, these are mostly nods to the player, but they can pretty well be there just to tell you that guybrush hasn't quite stopped daydreaming yet.
After all, the player is supposed to kind of "be" guybrush when playing the game. So it could still be a way to tell you there's still stuff going on in his/your head.

[PariahKing]

Originally Posted by Pale Man

PK, I agree with you completely, as usual.

Thanks.

Going on beyond that to even more contreversial waters you may not agree with, from my perspective, a MI3 by Ron Gilbert instead of Curse could've been a very bad thing. A lot of times when you see these secret riddled endings they don't live up to any happy, fulfilling or even logical conclusion. A bad resolution of the MI3 could've killed the series not only in terms of sequels but in terms of public opinion as well - it's legacy.

The Matrix is a prime example of this. It's amazing Curse was able to tie up as many plot holes as it did and explain it in such a satisfying way.

Curse is a stellar adventure game - one of the best if not the best of all time. It's not my favorite ever but I'm certainly glad it exists. Escape - for all the hate it gets - is a very good adventure game in a series filled with great titles. It gets a lot of hate but an excessive amount. So I'm glad Escape exists too. I've always gotten the sense that Ron's MI3 would've finished off the series for good with whatever his secret is.

And then we have Tales. Tales has a lot of promise and is helping in the modern revival of adventure games considering all the interest in Monkey Island. Beyond that it's given excellent exposure to Telltale - I'm a customer who bought all their titles simply because I became aware of them due to Monkey Island. Hell, if Ron had made MI3? We may not have gotten a MI:SE years later, the same MI:SE which is selling so well now and is yet another important cog in the industry working to revitalize the genre.

I say this as a LeChuck's Revenge fan. In fact it's my favorite adventure game ever made. But I wouldn't change things as they are to see Ron's intended third game. People act as if Ron was screwed over or never got his shot. People forget that Ron voluntarily left LucasArts of his own accord without making the third Monkey Island. In fact they even forget his original vision for Monkey Island was originally slated to be a more serious game but Dave and Tim worked so many jokes in that became what was. Ron is not God in my eyes, even though I do like and respect his work. But I don't deify the man nor accept the idea no one can make good Monkey Island games except him. I trust Chuck, Mike, Mark and Dave to make Tales. I'd trust Tim to do it.

Everyone hates the idea of Monkey Island being all the dream of a little boy. That's the apparent and most logical ending to MI2 on the surface of things - but nobody seems to want to accept it as it seems so much of a let down. How do we know Ron's third Monkey Island game with his venerated secret isn't something like this - something as dissapointing or series killing?

Beyond that how do we even know there even IS a secret and Ron isn't just pulling wool over our eyes, trying to get a third game made years later? The end of MI2 looks like it was deliberately done to make the "He's just a kid" theory look like the truth but apply wiggle room for a sequel later. It's apparently worked very well as people still talk about it today. For all we know Ron has spent the last ten years coming up with a secret. It's not a nice thing to say and I don't mean anything malicious by it, but you would have to be a fool in this world to assume the best of everybody always and none of us know Ron personally.

Really we will probably never know the secret (if one exists) and even if we figured it out Ron would never tell us - he wouldn't tell us for nine years Monkey Island lay dead and seemingly gone forever. And Ron's game probably doesn't even fit within the established storyline - his complaint on the Elaine and Guybrush marriage could mean they're sister and brother which would turn Monkey Island into an incest fest. It'd have to take place in some weird alternate timeline or itself be revealed to be a dream sequence which would just be a convoluted and messy solution.

If Ron got to make his Monkey Island game - a direct sequel or one that eliminates Curse, Escape and Tales as canon - I would be excited to play it but I would be afraid for the ramifications for the series. In any case fixating on a ending that got a canon resolution back in the nineties that we'll never be able to figure out seems silly to me. It's an interesting discussion point but at the same time it's kind of a pointless conversation.

[Qwazin]

Here's something else to theorize about;

If there was to be a LeChuck's Revenge: Special Edition, do you think LucasArts would alter the ending to make it tie better with the story of Curse? Or would they alter it att all?
It feels like the ending for LeChuck's Revenge is such a perfect little thing because it's existed for so long, and I dunno wether it would attract or scare off idiots att Lucas to try and fiddle with it. Yes, it's a very pessimistic way to look at a special edition of this fantastic game, but I just felt like putting it out there, for funsies.

Also, as for my take of the ending I don't really care much about it. If anything I'll by the sulution presented in Curse, just because I love that game. You can kind of tell it's not the proper sulution seeing as it doesn't make sense with what the Voodoo Lady says in the first MI. BUT, when it all comes to the ending I think it is the question that is interesting, and not the answer. Sitting att places like this and theorizing is what makes the ending of MI2 so great, but to actually know what it means, I just think it would let a lot of people down.

[PariahKing]

Yeah Qwazin - the discussions would all end. The chase here is better than the catch. As for the voodoo lady she is proved to be fallible in Curse - "you will die" - so I think that's a DECENT explanation but it's not seamless. But a five game story over 20 years isn't going to be seamless.

I can't see them changing anything in MI2:SE. At all. I expect to see maybe the monkey shaped more like a wrench and that's about it.

[Tea]

You pretty much stole my theory, pilouuuu.

[prizna]

Does anyone think it would be a good idea for Ron Gilbert to make his intended 3rd game or do you think it would ruin the already made storyline too much, or would you just be happy for Ron Gilbert to tell what he originally intended?

[BoneMill]

If it's all imagination indeed... I finnaly know how guybrush could hold his breath for 10 minutes xD!

[Armakuni]

My original theory was that Guybrush was just a kid that had imagined all of this while running around in an amusement park.
The half modern items scattered around in the MI world could support this.
And who better to cast as your arch nemesis than your brother.

[ilcapitano10]

I think that Ron Gilbert just knowed that Monkey Island 2 would be the last saga's game that he would have done and

he created an end for the saga.
the two games adventure was a child's dream (or a child's game)that ha was playing in a amusement park with his

brother in a attraction that called "Big Whoop", how we can see in the ending scene.

It's undeniable that your hypothesis it's more fascinating but mine it's more likely.

[plrichard]

Originally Posted by ilcapitano10

I think that Ron Gilbert just knowed that Monkey Island 2 would be the last saga's game that he would have done and

he created an end for the saga.
the two games adventure was a child's dream (or a child's game)that ha was playing in a amusement park with his

brother in a attraction that called "Big Whoop", how we can see in the ending scene.

It's undeniable that your hypothesis it's more fascinating but mine it's more likely.

Yours is not likely at all knowing that Ron has said multiple times that there were plans to make an MI3 in which he would reveal the secret of Monkey Island. Therefore, LeChuck's Revenge was not intended to be the last game.