What's your theory about the ending of Monkey Island 2 - LeChuck's Revenge?

[turingmachine604]

Originally Posted by PariahKing

As for the voodoo lady she is proved to be fallible in Curse - "you will die".

Uhmm, that's not entirely true. You do have a death scene in Curse. That's what the Voodoo lady saw. Plus, you already know to take whatever the Voodoo Lady says with a grain of salt as she likes to lie and exaggerate the role she played in things (like killing LeChuck).

Besides, the Voodoo Lady completely changes her stance on Big Whoop between 2 and 3.

In the MI 2, Guybrush asks if there's any way he could escape LeChuck. She specifically tells Guybrush to continue looking for Big Whoop as it's a gateway to another world and that's the only way to escape him forever. In Curse, she yells at Guybrush and tells him he should have never gone looking for Big Whoop in the first place.

I think it's more curiosity than anything else, that people still wonder about Gilbert's MI 3. I think Curse did a good job offering a logical explanation (they could have just ret-conned it or ignored it completely, but the didn't). Escape actually caused more plot-holes than MI 2 and Curse. I don't know if I'd like to see Gilbert's MI 3 actually made any more, but I would like to know how he planned to end the series.

In fact, I still think that the MI series should end eventually, and one of the strengths of MI 1 and 2 was that Gilbert had an end in the back of his mind when making it. Sure there's in-references in the games now, but not on the level of connection between the first two games. Game series should always have an end in sight, and I think the longer MI goes on the worse for the series. As much as I love the series, it should have a last game someday, and when that is being made if any of Gilbert's original intentions are still possible in the game-world now set up they should try to incorporate them.

[LeChuck315]

Originally Posted by PariahKing

My theory is the explanation at the end of CMI, because it's canon and accepted in the game's storyline. What Ron would have or wouldn't have done isn't relevant until if and when he makes his game.

That's also how I feel about it.

[SHODANFreeman]

Originally Posted by PariahKing

Wall o' Text

I agree with most of that as well, especially the bit about not deifying Ron, because as you said, without Dave and Tim we'd be looking at a VERY different Monkey Island.

I honestly think Ron gets WAY too much credit for Monkey Island. I mean, yeah he was a big part of it, but he wasn't the ONLY person who made it. Lucasarts (or Lucasfilm Games, as it were), at the time Gilbert was there, had a HUGE collection of amazing talent, without whom I don't think Monkey Island would've been a success, no matter how close Ron was standing to the game as it was made.

There is no question that Curse of Monkey Island is a great game and gives suitable explanation to the ending of MI2, but people want to believe there's some ancient mythical brilliant "secret" that Ron holds that will somehow make the games 10 times better if he tells us.

I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Rather Dashing]

I don't know about anyone else, but "that whole amusement park revelation was just a trick" explanation is far more unsatisfying to me than "everything is imaginary" or even "Guybrush is or can be a little boy". It just does seem to toss out that ending in a way that doesn't feel like it ever had any weight to it, when it really felt like it should have been more important in the grand scheme.

[SHODANFreeman]

Originally Posted by Rather Dashing

I don't know about anyone else, but "that whole amusement park revelation was just a trick" explanation is far more unsatisfying to me than "everything is imaginary" or even "Guybrush is or can be a little boy". It just does seem to toss out that ending in a way that doesn't feel like it ever had any weight to it, when it really felt like it should have been more important in the grand scheme.

Based on the track record of "everything is imaginary" endings in TV shows, movies, etc. I'd have to say that "everything is imaginary" is BY FAR the worst way to end anything.

I'd much rather have the ending be "stay tuned for the sequel" than "nothing you've accomplished has been real in any sense of the word"

[plrichard]

I think "it's all just imaginary" is basically a cop out to end something when you didn't really have an ending planned which is why it seems so unsatisfying to me. That's also why I choose not to believe it.

[onlyamonkey]

It's a computergame. It's surreal at times. It's supposed to make you laugh, not psychoanalyze or make something religiously one-street-there-exists-no-other-roads of it. It's a game. We play. For fun. To enjoy. Critic that.

[Rather Dashing]

Originally Posted by Pale Man

Based on the track record of "everything is imaginary" endings in TV shows, movies, etc. I'd have to say that "everything is imaginary" is BY FAR the worst way to end anything.

I'd much rather have the ending be "stay tuned for the sequel" than "nothing you've accomplished has been real in any sense of the word"

But why? It never did have any weight to begin with, it was a game. You participated in a fantasy. Whether Guybrush himself was fantasizing along with you, does that really change anything? The characters are still amazing, the story, the puzzles, they're all still there and they're all amazing. Is it really so wrong to have the world be in the mind of a digital child, rather than just the minds of those who create video games?

Everything you "accomplished" is exactly as real. You played a video game. I think some people simply are afraid to have that fantasy end. I think that, when we find ourselves attached to a universe, we like to think that the fantasy goes on past the time we've visited it. I think at least part of what makes people deny the carnival is real so vehemently is that we want to think that Guybrush is going to keep going on pirate adventures even when we aren't going to be there to see them. Some people don't want the fantasy to end. I think though, that there's something touching about the idea that we've simply gone into a kid's mind, or even gone with a child into a "real" world of fantasy that mirrors the actual one, and that we spend the entirety of the adventure with this boy through the end.

And more than that, the idea that it's a curse just doesn't give the ending the proper significance. The problem with "it was all a dream" stories in TV and movies isn't the IDEA of something being false within the world of the fictional body of work. The main issue is that the "dream" is used to "undo" an event, like a character's death. A shocking event that rends the status quo into shreds. The problem is that to take such an event and to render it null and void takes that event's POWER away, they died and we cared for nothing. In the SAME way, the explanation in Curse robs our revelation at the end of LeChuck's Revenge null and void, when it was begging to be a far more important and powerful effect on the nature of the next game.

To say there is even more to it than meets the eye is interesting, for example Big Woop being the "Voodoo Crossroads" into the Monkey Island universe, where everything is a pirate fantasy, THAT is intriguing and interesting.

To say that it's just a trick, and that the end of the last game didn't matter, actually blunders RIGHT INTO the problems that make "it was all just a dream" endings so frustrating when it is used in other media.

Originally Posted by onlyamonkey

It's a computergame. It's surreal at times. It's supposed to make you laugh, not psychoanalyze or make something religiously one-street-there-exists-no-other-roads of it. It's a game. We play. For fun. To enjoy. Critic that.

I think it's fun to talk about a game you love and enjoy. That's why I'm here, I assume that's why you're here.

[Astro Gnocci]

I think it's fun to talk about a game you love and enjoy. That's why I'm here, I assume that's why you're here.

I'm just in here for the free beer and hot dogs.

[Javi-Wan Kenobi]

Monkey Island no es real, es todo un sueño de Antonio Resines
Monkey Island isn't real, it's all a dream by Antonio Resines (a spanish actor whose succesful TV series, after many seasons, ended this way: he commited suicide and then, suddenly, he wakes up. The whole series -or at least the last few seasons, I don't remember exactly- were a dream)
That generated a big debate in Spain, and most people disliked the ending

[Grulien]

Originally Posted by Astro Gnocci

I'm just in here for the free beer and hot dogs.

Beer! Who said beer?

[Astro Gnocci]

"I came all this way to see you.... at least get me a beer!"

I saw that somewhere... where does it come from ?
(BEER!)

[PariahKing]

Originally Posted by turingmachine604

Uhmm, that's not entirely true. You do have a death scene in Curse. That's what the Voodoo lady saw. Plus, you already know to take whatever the Voodoo Lady says with a grain of salt as she likes to lie and exaggerate the role she played in things (like killing LeChuck).

Pretending to die and actually dying are two very different things.

[Grulien]

Originally Posted by Astro Gnocci

I saw that somewhere... where does it come from ?
(BEER!)

It's a dialog option from Guybrush, when he tries to coax the map piece from Elaine in MI2.

[Astro Gnocci]

wow... guess it's REALLY time i play MI2 again... thanks

[bigdondoo]

Originally Posted by turingmachine604

Game series should always have an end in sight...

I hear the end of the Mario series will be in 2167. Seriously though, what a silly thing to say. We're talking about video games which are, by definition, really crazy when it comes to plot. But we are video gamers who, by definition, don't care. If we did care about plot, Final Fantasy would never be a big enough seller to exist. (Also, Crono Trigger and Cross)

Adventure games are a little different as they're supposed to tell a story, but as long as I know my objectives and get some gut busting laughs out of it, I'm okay with it.

Off subject I know, but just something I wanted to put out there.

[britt12334]

well i just finished it and after the credits elaine says "i hope leChuck didnt put a curse on him. so i think LeChuck cursed Guybrush and eventually it wore off any Guybrush goes back to being a mighty pirate. but i havent played the Curse in awhile so i dont remember what explanation is given.

[Vira]

Best theory I've ever read about Monkey Island (I think it was on this forum) was basically that Guybrush was a failed writer who fell into a coma. His brother, Chuckie, stole his girlfriend from him so in his mind he convinces himself that LeChuck's evil. And his favorite ride as a kid was Disney's "Pirates of the Caribbean" so pirates became the main subject of his book and, consequently, his fantasies.

So everytime his mind came closer to the truth, he manages to convince himself otherwise. I like this theory because it explains his skeletal parents (they're dead and he's older), LeChuck and Chuckie's obsession with Elaine, and Guybrush's seemingly adult mind. And it can work with the proceeding games as well.

[RockNRoll]

Originally Posted by PariahKing

As for the voodoo lady she is proved to be fallible in Curse - "you will die" - so I think that's a DECENT explanation but it's not seamless.

I think that's weak. First off, you're equating Curse-era voodoo lady to pre-Curse which is invalid. Also she was clearly RIGHT about the death, in that you faked your death. That was the whole point. She said in MI1 that you'd learn the world guybrush lives in is not as it seems, and he doesn't even know who he truly is. that was put in there for a reason, and it comes true at MI2. you can't just say "oh well she's wrong sometimes" all the prophesies she's PROGRAMMED to say obviously have a reason to them.

[Bagge]

Originally Posted by PariahKing

Pretending to die and actually dying are two very different things.

He was legally declared dead.