What's your theory about the ending of Monkey Island 2 - LeChuck's Revenge?

[PariahKing]

Originally Posted by RockNRoll

I think that's weak. First off, you're equating Curse-era voodoo lady to pre-Curse which is invalid. Also she was clearly RIGHT about the death, in that you faked your death. That was the whole point. She said in MI1 that you'd learn the world guybrush lives in is not as it seems, and he doesn't even know who he truly is. that was put in there for a reason, and it comes true at MI2. you can't just say "oh well she's wrong sometimes" all the prophesies she's PROGRAMMED to say obviously have a reason to them.

Context, context and context.

Originally Posted by PK

My theory is the explanation at the end of CMI, because it's canon and accepted in the game's storyline. What Ron would have or wouldn't have done isn't relevant until if and when he makes his game.

The thing you're quoting is referring to in your quote is related to that. I am well aware Gilbert was not involved in CMI.

[pilouuuu]

Originally Posted by TheJoe

You pretty much stole my theory, pilouuuu.

Sorry, it was not my intention. Pure coincidence or maybe it's a collective inconcious message telling us all that's the correct theory.

Anyway I haven't read your theory before (really) and thought it was great! The connection between Dinky, Booty and Meele Island. Big Whoop is some kind of Bermuda Triangle! And the Voodo Lady appearing everywhere... Wow, all this reminds of Lost a bit.

And if the correct theory is all that rubbish of "he's a kid" and "it's all a dream", then I just kind of realised after thinking about the amusement park, that it is a rip-off of the Dungeon & Dragons cartoon.

I like our theories about space-time travelling better, TheJoe!

[coolsome]

if only we had a what if machine

[Irishmile]

I blame Voodoo... and unicorns

[coolsome]

I think the ending was ment to be left to inturprtation

[Irishmile]

Yeah especially because of the micheal jackson thriller evil eyes ending

[Secret Fawful]

Originally Posted by Irishmile

Yeah especially because of the micheal jackson thriller evil eyes ending

You know now I'm really disappointed that Zombie LeChuck didn't do the dance from Thriller at any time during that game.

[Everlast]

When i saw the ending of the 2nd part for the 1st time, i was confused. If you see it without curse of monkey island you think.

Looks like everything that happened in the game was all just a dream an imaginary dream. Why else would appear the parents of guybrush in the middle of the game singing out a song? But then theres the LeChuck eyes glowing red, and i couldnt understand. If LeChuck's eyes wouldnt have glowed i would have said 100% it was all like a child's dream.

The red eyes of LeChuck for me was like to keep the door open for many games, maybe Ron Gilbert's intention was to make a 3rd installment. But then things got hard in Lucas Arts and he was out. Living things hard creatively for the next writers of the next episode. I gotta say seeing how it was portrayed the ending we should take it as it is from Guybrush, a malicious voodoo hex that was released by LeChuck. The red eyes of the infant LeChuck does it for me.

[Qwazin]

Originally Posted by Irishmile

Yeah especially because of the micheal jackson thriller evil eyes ending

I've actually never thought of that until you mentioned it now.

Maybe it was not meant to be this deep, mysterious ending with a twist, but just the writers and programmers getting bored and running out of ideas and thought "Hey let's have LeChuck say he's Guybrush's brother and then have them turn into kids and he does THE MICHAEL JACKSON THRILLER EVIL EYES and then end the game just like that. Come to think of it that's quite genius. I wish more games would end like that.

[turingmachine604]

A thing a lot of people don't know is that Big Whoop and the whole carnival were not important in his plans for MI 3.

There's a whole interview at SCUMM BAR:

http://www.scummbar.com/resources/ar...e&article=1004

Where, he talks (well, hints) at what he wanted for MI 3.

Quote from Ron:

"No, because Big Whoop wasn't really anything important when we started writing the game. The name alone says that. It just turned into something after the fact...Like I said before, I didn't really have any plans for Big Whoop. I didn't think people would latch onto it, so it was never a part of my story."

So the idea that the carnival would play a big part in Gilbert's MI 3 is probably wrong. Also Elaine and Guybrush wouldn't have gotten married.

[Bagge]

I always believed that by opening (or smashing) Big Whoop, Guybrush opened the portal to another world or dimension, at first blending with the "real" pirate world, which explains the surreal elements in the final scenes of MI2, and then sucking them completely into this world where they appear as kids in a carneval.

[StarEye]

I don't really have a theory that I actually believe 100% in. I can't bring myself to say "yup, that's it, that's the explanation.", since I can't really know.

However, I don't believe the "it's just a dream" or the Calvin and Hobbes theory. There are three things I deem important that I think proves this isn't the case. First of all, it's the whole glowing eyes thing. Then it's the short cutscene with Elaine saying "I hope LeChuck hasn't put a CURSE on him or something". And yes, curse is written in big letters in the game as well. I'd say that alone is hinting of a MI3 - which means the "it's just a dream" or the Calvine and Hobbes theory is wrong since those theories is based on MI2 being the last game. Then it's the whole Big Whoop carnival unmistakenly resembling Booty Island. Big Whoop may very well be a portal to another world, but that doesn't mean the world you're actually IN isn't real.

Anyway, I've had several different theories during the years, but I never actually believed in any of them. But as I said, I never ever suspected MI2 to be the last game because the game ends with a cliffhanger - thinking otherwise is simply taking the easy way out. There certainly was a MI3 coming, and while Ron could just say he have it all in his head to put fuel on the fire, I don't see why he'd still do that after so many years. Lying consequently to his fans wouldn't be a very nice thing to do.

[Barnabus]

As a kid I liked the MI2 ending and assumed that it was supposed to finish the series on an ambiguous note. It kind of rubbed me the wrong way when MI3 came along and went to such troubles to undo that ending and remove any shreds of ambiguity. I'm not convinced there was ever a need for a Monkey Island 3 by Ron Gilbert or otherwise.

[wisp]

it totally agree with you. the mi2 ending was one of the best endings i had seen so far and even though it was confusing and kind of weird, it was a brilliant ending. i think, that was the first time, i saw a not-happy ending as a kid. they way they continued the story in mi3 and 4 was funny, but seemed kinda makeshift.
if gilbert or at least someone from the old team had done mi3, the transition between mi2 and mi3 would probably have been a lot more elaborate, because they knew what the ending of mi2 meant..

...my second theory about the ending is, that they just wanted to something crazy and did it david lynch-style, just adding some elements that seem as if they have a deeper meaning, regardless if it actually makes sense or is possible or anything. that may be the reason why everyone involved in the making of mi2 is making such a big deal about it. everyone thinks they're briliant now, so way change that...

[StarEye]

Sorry for bringing up this topic again (although it's an interesting topic). But I just remembered something - relatively early on in MI2, Guybrush falls and hits his head (the Big Tree) and we get a dream sequence with his parents turning into skeletons and dancing the skeleton dance - giving him the instructions on some later puzzle.

Well, he does hit his head pretty hard when the rope breaks because Guybrush refuses to let the Big Whoop treasure chest go. Most likely a lot harder than in the Big Tree. Well, let's say he starts dreaming from that point, like in the Big Tree incident. A lot of what's happened to him up until then (both from MI1 and MI2) is revisited as references or even puzzles. The Grog Machine from MI1 is there, wrecked (he fell on it from a great height so it's obvious it would somewhat messed up). The back alley from MI1. The parents from the Big Tree incidents. The whole voodoo doll puzzle. LeChuck chasing him. Everything is connected to elements from both games, but in a different context. And you know how dreams can take drastic turns and suddenly become a whole new dream, sometimes connecting elements from one dream to the other? Well, at first LeChuck is chasing Guybrush around in dark corridors with no chance of escape (sounds like a classic nightmare, doesn't it), and when he finally caught up with him and you decide it's time to fight back, the dream is taking an unexpected unexplainable turn (Chuckie, Mom and Dad, etc).

Well, it certainly sounds like something I could've dreamt. Not exactly of course, but with elements taken from my own life and put into different contexts.

[Spadge]

LeChuck says a few times he's going to send him to a different dimention. That might have been it.
The bigger question is: Are they brothers? I think they are, but they just like to ignore that fact and try not to mention it, since it's rather embarassing for both of them.

[StarEye]

I think Ron Gilbert said in an interview once that they're brothers, but not really brothers - whatever that means. I don't think they're brothers in flesh.

[Qwazin]

"It contains the secret to another world"

It's been a while since I played the game, but didn't the treasure chest contain an E-ticket? An E-ticket grants you access to all rides at... Disneyworld? I think of oldschool promos for themeparks where they would have a narrator going "Enter a whole new world!" and stuff. See where I'm getting at?
And "escape LeChuck forever", that could just mean that a themepark is a great way to have a good time and escape reality for a few minutes.

See, it may be dumb, but it works perfect within the Monkey Island context. I'm sure that if it was true it would've been part of some silly follow-up joke in Gilbert's Monkey 3. If you think it sounds unlikely, look back at Monkey 1 and imagine the game would've ended on a cliffhanger as you "face the beast" that Meathook has feared for so long. No way in hell you would've guessed it was a parrot. It's ridiculous, which is what makes it funny. I'm sure the explaination for LR's ending is just as ridicoulus too.


So thats my take on at least what the Voodoo Lady says. God I love discussing these kind of things.

[SHODANFreeman]

Originally Posted by StarEye

Sorry for bringing up this topic again (although it's an interesting topic). But I just remembered something - relatively early on in MI2, Guybrush falls and hits his head (the Big Tree) and we get a dream sequence with his parents turning into skeletons and dancing the skeleton dance - giving him the instructions on some later puzzle.

Well, he does hit his head pretty hard when the rope breaks because Guybrush refuses to let the Big Whoop treasure chest go. Most likely a lot harder than in the Big Tree. Well, let's say he starts dreaming from that point, like in the Big Tree incident. A lot of what's happened to him up until then (both from MI1 and MI2) is revisited as references or even puzzles. The Grog Machine from MI1 is there, wrecked (he fell on it from a great height so it's obvious it would somewhat messed up). The back alley from MI1. The parents from the Big Tree incidents. The whole voodoo doll puzzle. LeChuck chasing him. Everything is connected to elements from both games, but in a different context. And you know how dreams can take drastic turns and suddenly become a whole new dream, sometimes connecting elements from one dream to the other? Well, at first LeChuck is chasing Guybrush around in dark corridors with no chance of escape (sounds like a classic nightmare, doesn't it), and when he finally caught up with him and you decide it's time to fight back, the dream is taking an unexpected unexplainable turn (Chuckie, Mom and Dad, etc).

Well, it certainly sounds like something I could've dreamt. Not exactly of course, but with elements taken from my own life and put into different contexts.

This would be a much better explanation imo than the stupid "kid in a theme park" story everyone seems to think is truth, but the official explanation is Curse's.

I don't honestly care what Ron Gilbert would've done, because he didn't care enough about it to actually do it, so it must not have been that great.

[Rather Dashing]

Originally Posted by Pale Man

This would be a much better explanation imo than the stupid "kid in a theme park" story everyone seems to think is truth, but the official explanation is Curse's.

I consider it barely more valid than a fanfiction, honestly. Story-wise, it was assigned to someone else who had no involvement with the planning and thought put into the second game's ending. In the basest sense, they were paid fanfiction writers.

Their story is "canonical" now, sure. But it's a series written by two sets of people, with two different visions. I don't see why post-Curse events can't be considered as "unofficial" to somebody, in terms of the original story.

I don't honestly care what Ron Gilbert would've done, because he didn't care enough about it to actually do it, so it must not have been that great.

I would like to know, honestly. We're not going to get it, and I can be fine with that, but I'd still like to know what might have come out of it. The Curse explanation feels...artificial, to me.