Mouse control in ToMI

[stoney1981]

As you say, its not that simple as using the mouse only. If they implent more complex controls, there should be a good reason for it. I clearly dont see any, all it does is enable the coders to do some extra puzzles (like running around the calendar). I just dont see a good reason for it, its not like the coders got uebercreative with puzzle design in the first episode either. (pretty repetitive puzzles)

Another thing that also bugged me was item combining. Why do we have to put both items in predefined fields, instead of just clicking one item and place it on top of the other.

[corruptbiggins]

Originally Posted by stoney1981

Why do we have to put both items in predefined fields, instead of just clicking one item and place it on top of the other.

To show that item combination can be done. I think it was aimed at people who have only really played Telltale's other adventure games in which item combination is not possible. I for one don't mind it. Ok it takes a few more seconds to combine items but it works well & looks cool.

[[TTG] Yare]

Originally Posted by Dago

Yeah, but the holding part doesn't really work well with a living room setup where you might have a small space to drag your mouse around.
In my opinion just clicking and moving would really improve the control scheme.

As was already mentioned, you don't need to keep dragging the mouse to make Guybrush move. The mouse movement is not being directly mapped to his movement. What's going on behind the scenes when you use drag-to-move is that the cursor is being (invisibly) constrained to a circle, where the cursor's position in that circle is treated like a joystick vector. This gets represented as the position of the red arrow in the ring around Guybrush. Try dragging very slowly for a moment to get a feel for what is happening.

[Dago]

Originally Posted by [TTG] Yare

As was already mentioned, you don't need to keep dragging the mouse to make Guybrush move. The mouse movement is not being directly mapped to his movement. What's going on behind the scenes when you use drag-to-move is that the cursor is being (invisibly) constrained to a circle, where the cursor's position in that circle is treated like a joystick vector. This gets represented as the position of the red arrow in the ring around Guybrush. Try dragging very slowly for a moment to get a feel for what is happening.

For the record, I can move Guybrush with not much of a problem using the current click and drag scheme, but I would really prefer to have the option to just point and click.
I'm not asking them to change the default controls.

[StarEye]

I don't have a particular problem with the controls, I just use WASD either way. However, I'm still slightly confused about why they absolutely have to mess with a system that's already been perfected since the early 90's. Sometimes it feels like companies (not just Telltale) changes stuff just for the sake of changing stuff - maybe out of fear of not looking modern enough.

But it's not just controlling Guybrush that has recieved some odd changes, but also the inventory. The right mousebutton doesn't seem to do anything in the game except making Guybrush run if you drag the mouse. Why can't we just push the right button to open up the inventory. And if not, at least make the right button examine stuff or items. And combining items shouldn't be as tedious as this. Maybe it's to stop people from aimlessly trying every combination, or maybe it's just a design choice. If it's because they wanted to show players that you could combine items, I don't see why that just couldn't be explained in the opening sequence - like it already is. Pick up the item, place item above other item, job done.

It's almost as if they change stuff to take more time, just to drag out the game. Or as I said earlier in the post, just for the sake of change or being "modern".

When that's said, this doesn't happen in just adventures - it seems games are getting less and less intuitive. I've heard people complain about the menu system in SWOS - but it's the easiest and most streamlined system in the entire history of football games, for crying out loud!

Oops, long post. Sorry about that. Either way, I don't really care that much if they're a lot less intuitive than they could've been, because nothing can keep me from Monkey Island (TM). But I can't help wondering "why?" in cases such as this one.

[Hitman]

It has already been discussed that the new camera angles don't allow for classic point and click movement. When you see the room from above, like in old games, it works fine. But when you see things from a lower angle, like a movie, you just don't see the floor, thus making it impossible to click on it to move.

I agree on the inventory. Combining items should be as simple as picking up an item and clicking on another item. THAT'S IT!

Also, what is SWOS?

[SHODANFreeman]

I think if they put in a point and click movement scheme where the character movement was based on what angle from the center of the screen you clicked and how far from the center you were to determine how far to walk, that would be a little more intuitive than click and drag.

But overall, I don't have a problem WASDing my way around.

[The Commissioner]

Originally Posted by Pale Man

I think if they put in a point and click movement scheme where the character movement was based on what angle from the center of the screen you clicked and how far from the center you were to determine how far to walk, that would be a little more intuitive than click and drag.

But overall, I don't have a problem WASDing my way around.

That doesn't sound very intuitive to me. I found the click drag very intuitive. As mentioned above, you don't need to keep dragging the mouse after Guybrush starts walking - the mouse movement is constrained to a little circle that steers the direction of movement. I was quite annoyed playing The Secret of Monkey Island Special Edition by all the clicking on the ground and no running!

The problem with 3D point and click movement is that unless you have the ground to click on, it doesn't work. If you clicked near the top of your screen, does that mean stay close to the camera and go upwards or does it mean walk off far into the distance? Or does it mean both go up AND far off into the distance?

I like how Telltale games handled it. There's tried and tested WASD controls for those who don't like the mouse drag and there's the mouse drag for me without harming WASD people. Why complain about removing it and spoil my fun?

Why keep saying that point and click games were perfected in the 90s? IF that was true then why did they all die off? Things don't need to stay static, they need to keep evolving. Early point and click games had tons of verb commands and they evolved, removing bits and changing to eventually the Sam & Max one click does all situation today.

Now with the addition of direct control either by WASD or mouse, nothing bad has been removed from the gameplay - lots of things are added like cinematic scenes, and a more interactive experience with character movement. You also get new ways of solving puzzles like the walking around calendar thing mentioned above.

[SHODANFreeman]

I don't think you understand what I mean. I mean if you click to the left of the character, he will walk left. If you click below the character, he will walk towards you. If you click above the character he will walk away from you.

It would work similarly to the way click and drag already does except you wouldn't be holding the mouse button down to do it.

[Badwolf]

Originally Posted by StarEye

But it's not just controlling Guybrush that has recieved some odd changes, but also the inventory. The right mousebutton doesn't seem to do anything in the game except making Guybrush run if you drag the mouse. Why can't we just push the right button to open up the inventory. And if not, at least make the right button examine stuff or items. And combining items shouldn't be as tedious as this. Maybe it's to stop people from aimlessly trying every combination, or maybe it's just a design choice. If it's because they wanted to show players that you could combine items, I don't see why that just couldn't be explained in the opening sequence - like it already is. Pick up the item, place item above other item, job done.

It's almost as if they change stuff to take more time, just to drag out the game. Or as I said earlier in the post, just for the sake of change or being "modern".

Yeah, they're things that've been annoying me. The middle mouse button opens up the inventory, but it's not very well documented, I only found out by accident.

The examination and combination methods are probably to make it obvious to new players that both things are possible [edit: whoops, beaten to the punch on this point earlier in the thread], but I still don't get why there's no shortcut ways to do them. (In Telltale's Sam and Max games, you could right click to examine inventory items, so I don't understand why that wasn't brought across.)

[Wicked Mouse]

Comparing SoMI:SE with ToMI I have to admit that I find the point&click from SoMI:SE more comfortable than the dragging with mouse in ToMI. So I tend to use the WASD keys mostly in ToMI.

[StarEye]

Originally Posted by Hitman

It has already been discussed that the new camera angles don't allow for classic point and click movement. When you see the room from above, like in old games, it works fine. But when you see things from a lower angle, like a movie, you just don't see the floor, thus making it impossible to click on it to move.

I agree on the inventory. Combining items should be as simple as picking up an item and clicking on another item. THAT'S IT!

Also, what is SWOS?

First, SWOS is short for Sensible World of Soccer.

Anyway, is the camera system and/or engine so different from Sam and Max? Because pointing and clicking works great in that game.

[Hitman]

Apparently it is. I've been playing the Wallace & Gromit demo and there's a scene in the house (right at the beginning). There's no way you could click on the floor there, because it's just not visible.