Lack of 'edge-y' humor in Telltale's Sam & Max

[yamman]

Well, I'm downloading Episode 3 as I type, hooray!

But it's with a little trepidation. I'm really hoping the humor is a bit 'edge-ier' in this installment.

The first two have been -good-... but just lacking that certain edge. The only flash of it was at the start of 'Culture Shock' when Max dropped the rat out the window. I got another small flash of it in 'Situation: Comedy' with their remarks about the ingredients in the cooking show. But generally, the episodes have the feeling that they're kind of Sam n Max 'lite' - funny and quirky, but nothing that might offend someone, or make someone think 'bad taste'...

I guess I noticed it more when I watched this month's Machinima - the 'Interrogation' one. THIS is the Sam & Max I know and love - edgy, Max with a real evil streak, swearing... I wish the scripts for the games were more like this. Then I noticed it was done by Steve Purcell.

The Saturday morning cartoon of S&M had the same problem I felt - the ones not written by Steve were 'zany', but missing that wicked, edgy, not-so-nice streak that is CLASSIC Sam & Max.

Are the games being tailored more towards kids, or are the writers just not wanting to go there in case they offend? Because Sam & Max is ALL ABOUT OFFENDING. Right now they feel like they're inside, trying to get out, but have been censored. Whether it's intentional or not, that's what it feels like.

Also, the episodes seem more based in 'reality' - former child stars, hippies, studio directors, talk show hosts, psychiatrists (I'm letting Bosco off the hook 'cause he's hilarious). I pine for mole men, bigfoots, giraffe-necked girls, two-headed carnival directors, shrieking banchees... basically some things a bit more 'out there'. After seeing the rat (again, at the start of 'Culture Shock') I was excited that this was the direction they were taking, but then it was pretty 'normal' from there. 'Situation: Comedy' was an improvement on this at least, with talking chickens, and 'Hugh Bliss' a refreshing change.

93% done downloading 'Mob & Meatball'... hoping for a bit more 'carnage', 'craziness' & 'crap'

Is it just me?

[Harald B]

It's not just you. I too feel that from the old comics through the less-old comics, Hit the Road, the cartoon, and now the TTG installment, there is a clear progression away from the dark, 'underground' feel towards a more light-hearted family-friendly feel, which is unfortunate IMO.
But the seventh machinima has renewed my hope that this trend may yet be reversed, and episode three seems to take a small step in the right direction. It's hard to tell if that's incidental or not; for now we'll just have to wait and see.

[JK1985]

I agree! I would love to get offended and think "bad taste"

I haven't watched the 7th machinima short yet... saving that for a couple of days I think.. maybe

[Hero1]

I agree..the comedy has been a little safe.. I think episode 3 was a step in the right direction though.mafia wearing giant teddy bear heads is suitably crazy

[Sir Lemming]

Sam & Max is definitely not "all about offending"... but I understand your concern. I think episode 3 is the edgiest, possibly because of the mafia-related content.

[Screaming Gamer]

Well if you are British like me, EP2 pushed the mark a little using Bosco as one of us Brits... He pulled it off very well and it was funny! Then I though it stepped the mark with the swearing. It was trying to be too funny which it failed to be. I wasn't offended, I just feel that the writers were trying too hard at that point. Cheap laughs arent always cool.

[Mother Superior]

I also feel that because Sam (for obvious reasons) is pretty much always driving the plot, whenever Max gets to do anything it needs to be memorable, lest we forget him. (the rat and the judging panel were good ones to remember, but he needs to be meaner and more extreme ) Stuff that insults people such as swearing and being evil is always good for a laugh of course.

[GozzoMan]

Well, I haven't read the comics nor seen the cartoon, so my only reference for comparison is the Hit The Road game, and, while I agree that a bit more bigfoots and whatnot would be tasty, I have to say that I liked the humor of Ep 1 and 2 more then the old Lucas game, much more indeed, as I've been saying to all my old-adventurer friends for two months now.

It's worth noting that I re-played S&MHTR just a few months before Culture Shock, so the reference is rather fresh, and it's strange but I had the opposite feeling: that is that TTG took more liberty in humor than the Lucas team, I found it more edgy and rude and all the rest.

My favorite examples are the blues that Sam sang about the missing phone in Culture Shock for "edginess" (wonderful! I laughed crazy) and the interrogation of the rat, there's plenty of rudeness in it!

That not to say that I didn't find the "Interrogation" machinima ending exceptionally funny, "[...]Justice is a truckload of pointy crap." Pure genius, indeed.

Just my 2 (euro)cents

[abdallah]

Originally Posted by yamman

Well, I'm downloading Episode 3 as I type, hooray!

But it's with a little trepidation. I'm really hoping the humor is a bit 'edge-ier' in this installment... and so on

Is it just me?

Yep, im sorry to be one of the ones complaining, the episodes are brilliant. But i agree. Sometimes Max even comes to the point of being irritating. Too over the top, and probably because of the political correctness of it.
The Bird eating shit was great, because he deserved it, but its a pretty cheap laugh as well. I dont know, its almost like Sam n max is Frasier now, which is not really a bad thing, but it used to be one of the good Seinfeld episodes.
I havnt played the third one yet, this is my experience from the first two.

[numble]

I might be spoilery, so I'll say Episode 3 does have a lot more violence and things in it, but it seems a lot of the limitations of this sort of humor is that the Telltale Engine doesn't seem as capable of providing the visual equivalent as often--like in the machinima short about interrogation and reality show, the violence occurs off-screen with sound effects. Doing this too often would highlight the limitations of their tools, so maybe that's the reason they don't do it as often.

[Harald B]

Originally Posted by numble

I might be spoilery, so I'll say Episode 3 does have a lot more violence and things in it, but it seems a lot of the limitations of this sort of humor is that the Telltale Engine doesn't seem as capable of providing the visual equivalent as often--like in the machinima short about interrogation and reality show, the violence occurs off-screen with sound effects. Doing this too often would highlight the limitations of their tools, so maybe that's the reason they don't do it as often.

I don't think that's the reason. Fact is, Sam and Max is not nor has it ever been about gory bits. On the contrary, one of the main strengths has always been implicitness: violence is often implied but almost never shown directly, and for good reason. If we actually saw detailed footage of a guy falling into a truck filled with razorblades and whatnot, it would be plain disgusting and not funny at all -especially if we'd have to listen to Max's snide comments while witnessing it. Sam and Max works by coming dangerously close to crossing the line, but only works because it doesn't actually do so; if it did it would just degenerate into mindless vulgarity.
There's a similar point to be made about the offensiveness that's being mentioned. A certain amount of rudeness is integral, but so is the fact that that rudeness is always cloaked in expensive verbosity and good style. If it were merely about offending they might as well stick in some four-letter words or various other forms of obscenity and profanity; thank god that's not the case.
Sorry for the rant guys, nothing personal. I just wanted to point out that Sam and Max is a piece of art performing a delicate balancing act, not just an exercise in excessive violence and offensiveness. I'm not accusing anyone here of holding the opposite, it's just something that needed to be said for the record at this point.

[numble]

Originally Posted by Harald B

I don't think that's the reason. Fact is, Sam and Max is not nor has it ever been about gory bits. On the contrary, one of the main strengths has always been implicitness: violence is often implied but almost never shown directly, and for good reason. If we actually saw detailed footage of a guy falling into a truck filled with razorblades and whatnot, it would be plain disgusting and not funny at all -especially if we'd have to listen to Max's snide comments while witnessing it. Sam and Max works by coming dangerously close to crossing the line, but only works because it doesn't actually do so; if it did it would just degenerate into mindless vulgarity.
There's a similar point to be made about the offensiveness that's being mentioned. A certain amount of rudeness is integral, but so is the fact that that rudeness is always cloaked in expensive verbosity and good style. If it were merely about offending they might as well stick in some four-letter words or various other forms of obscenity and profanity; thank god that's not the case.
Sorry for the rant guys, nothing personal. I just wanted to point out that Sam and Max is a piece of art performing a delicate balancing act, not just an exercise in excessive violence and offensiveness. I'm not accusing anyone here of holding the opposite, it's just something that needed to be said for the record at this point.

Ah I get you, but I would mean just basic things like running away or jumping out a window and fighting are also off-screen, and many of the visual gags in HtR -- Max short-circuiting a fusebox, grabbing a letter from a kitty, or riding that spinning carnival contraption (I haven't played in years) would not be possible (without longer development times).

[Mother Superior]

I get where Harald is coming from, and I agree with him, but my main reason for wanting more violence actually stems from my belief that Max needs more to do (and hurting people is his forté), so it comes natural to me that when he does get to hurt people, it should be more extreme. Even though I also agree that it shouldn't be violent in the visual way, it should be done like the rat coughing up the phone in ep1 ("I wish I could un-see that). Blood and gore isn't S&Ms style.

[fathamburger]

Well I do miss a bit of Max violence but aside from that I think things are fine the way it was. I always thought it was more about the humour than the gag violence. I do say bring it back though but keep it cartoony i.e. in the original Hit the Road game where Max shoves his fist down the mouth of the "bonded street courier "

[yamman]

Coughing up the phone is a perfect example of crazy, edgier stuff happening. What I'm trying to get at is, other that that and Hugh Bliss doing 'magical' stuff, these episode could almost be based in reality. If it wasn't for the fact that Sam & Max are a dog and rabbit, it could be a couple of guys walking around.

The other thing is Max himself - he always -talks- about his penchant for violence in these episodes, but we barely ever SEE it - off-screen or not.

And yes, exactly like the Machinima, violence is always portrayed off-screen, or off-panel (in the case of the comic) - that's fine! I just miss Sam & Max's gleeful violent impulses e.g. throwing an exploding head out the window (Hit The Road), running with a log towards a bunch of cultists ('Monkeys Violating' comic) etc etc etc. Even Steve's web comic (where they come back from the dead, lol) has a more adult and crazy tone and more sophisticated writing than these episodes.

Bang on to the poster who mentioned the 'edgier' stuff is always presented in verbose, magnificently written dialogue as well - so they might be saying 'let's take this guys' guts out', but it's said in such a round-about way that it's a joy to listen to and doesn't offend, just makes you laugh.

Playing 'Mob & Meatball' at the moment, and once again... it's all humans everywhere. Now it's Mafia dudes in bear helmets, in a brightly coloured casino. It's ok... but the only sparks I've felt from this game so far have been:
a) The Intro
b) Bosco (well written as always - the 'no' jokes were laugh-out-loud stuff)
c) FINALLY - a little talking BUG! -That's- more like it!!!

What this seriers really needs it more stuff like the rubber pants commandoes... gator golf... mystery vortexs (vorti?)... chimps with guns... giant cockroaches on the moon... A BLOOD CAKED SMOCK. Stuff that's totally out of LEFT FIELD.

I know I said S&M is all about offending, and thanks whoever picked me up on that. I better way to re-phrase it is I miss being offended/shocked/revolted/pleasantly surprised by what I see (and don't see) in Sam & Max!

[Yohmi]

Yes, these episoddes are less crazy than Hit the Road... and I'm missing it a bit... but I hope it become progressive ! Nothing as funny as the incredibly pretentious snucky salesman, the house of stranges things, a so funny (and boring) moleman... for the moment, Season 1 is not as insane as Hit the Road... I just hope it'll become... I just remember the shaving butt scene, it's that kind of thing I like...

[ShaggE]

Originally Posted by abdallah

I dont know, its almost like Sam n max is Frasier now.

In my book, comparing anything to Frasier (the greatest sitcom ever) is glowing praise!

And as was remarked earlier, this episode's "Do you have..." sequence in Bosco's was the funniest yet, I was in tears by the 5th click lol

[Sir Lemming]

One thing I somehow forgot in Episode 3 is quite obvious: "Does the carpet match the drapes?"

[Kefky]

It's not as edgy as the comics, but to me it definitely feels more edgy than htr. Max's dialog seems more "naughty", and the guys are just acting more immoral in general, like the way Sam carries a gun and you can shoot it wherever you feel like it, including inside a general store, or actually acting breaking someone's tail light, and charging a 10,000 dollar ticket for it. How delicious was that? Not to mention actually getting to be a mob enforcer, or even that whole a bit about the U.S. being a free country being a delusion... Seems pretty risque to me.

[Alucard]

yes I like the carpet match the drapes. The kind of jokes that adults will get but still if kids hear them it is no big deal because they won't understand