LeChuck's Ship Scene - "Unbalanced Drama"?

[Mermaid]

Okay, since I saw that concept art of LeChuck's ship I couldn't wait to get to that part of the game and was AMAZED when I saw how great it turned out - the colors, the lighting - awesome. It set up an atmosphere that I last saw in LeChuck's Revenge, fearsome, powerful, dramatic.

So I was all in the mood and expecting some dark, dramatic evil scene there which actually did follow, but one thing I really found irritating was the dialogue between Guybrush, LeChuck and Elaine which, in my opinion, just didn't fit in there at many moments.

That whole Elaine turning into a demon scene is a shocker, even more so when she grabs that root beer bottle and sprays it at Guybrush (Dominic, again, doing a great job voice acting all that emotion into him).
So up to this point, there's nothing really to complain about, except maybe that I still found Earl's voice to be missing that punch he used to have for LeChuck's voice (different subject).

The scene in which Guybrush reappears as a Zombie though is where acting / dialogue get "unbalanced" concerning the drama of the moment:

LeChuck starts acting extremely cruel, weakening Guybrush with every punch, leaving him hardly enough strength to keep himself on his feet, let alone walk. While I kinda liked the brave comebacks Guybrush has at LeChuck, after a while I found them, say, unrealistic. We've never seen Guybrush in such a fragile, pitiful and suffering state, it just didn't match with his responses to LeChuck.

The bigger problem I had was the acting / dialogue between LeChuck and Elaine, though. To start off with, it seems that by now, LeChuck's lost all of his certain "evil, but yet gentleman" qualities. Which is: he's come down to hitting and killing women.

After Elaine leaves her demonic state and comes back to normal, she's literally battered to the ground by LeChuck (okay: after she's tried to kill him, but still). That doesn't quite go along with his deep love for her that drove him to win her heart in all those years, does it? Worse: some seconds later, he tells Guybrush that "Elaine's to be mine...to do the sewing and keep the house clean in case we have guests." Uh...no. Totally unfitting here.

Also the "Plunderbunny" / "Honey Pumpkin" dialogue between Guybrush and Elaine, which I actually find amusing most of the time, didn't really work here I think. There were a couple of more examples which I don't remember right now, though.

Don't get me wrong: There's a reason Monkey Island has been done and kept in a cartoonish style and the last thing I'd want to miss about this series is the humour that prevents the story from becoming all TOO dark. (Even I missed Murray in the finale!) But I kinda didn't like the combination of both, humour and evil, in that finale scene.
After all, there was no humour in Morgan's death scene, for instance, either, which is actually why it was appreciated so much.

Anyone feeling similar about this?

[Secret Fawful]

Not really.

Guybrush's attempts at humor and cracking jokes in the face of even the most intense danger is just part of his character. He was trying and failing at this point because he was so badly beaten up.

LeChuck beating Elaine to the ground, well, she stabbed him, so what do you expect? LeChuck is hardly a gentleman, he's impatient and a brute. Sure he wants Elaine for himself but its not like at this point he's going to take being stabbed lying down, he wants Elaine even if he has to force her love. He beat Morgan down too and even killed her. (big problem with this as De singe should have been the one to kill Morgan but whatever)

The plunderbunny dialogue WAS a bit worn out, but Elaine and Guybrush were actually terrified and fighting for their lives this time so uh, well not much to say on that one.

[Rather Dashing]

Originally Posted by Mermaid

LeChuck starts acting extremely cruel, weakening Guybrush with every punch, leaving him hardly enough strength to keep himself on his feet, let alone walk. While I kinda liked the brave comebacks Guybrush has at LeChuck, after a while I found them, say, unrealistic. We've never seen Guybrush in such a fragile, pitiful and suffering state, it just didn't match with his responses to LeChuck.

I think Dominic pulled it off extremely well. Guybrush is determined, no matter how much he gets battered. If he didn't have any fight in him, he wouldn't have the initiative to perform the actions necessary to finish him Once And For All™, again. I don't know what you want here. Guybrush should give up?

The bigger problem I had was the acting / dialogue between LeChuck and Elaine, though. To start off with, it seems that by now, LeChuck's lost all of his certain "evil, but yet gentleman" qualities. Which is: he's come down to hitting and killing women.

Here's where I blame Curse. And hate Curse. And want every copy of Curse to be tracked down and smashed with a sledgehammer. LeChuck isn't SUPPOSED to be the relative teddy bear he is in that game. He's supposed to be feared, powerful, evil, brutal. Any "gentleman" quality is a taint on the original character that should be gladly thrown out.

After Elaine leaves her demonic state and comes back to normal, she's literally battered to the ground by LeChuck (okay: after she's tried to kill him, but still). That doesn't quite go along with his deep love for her that drove him to win her heart in all those years, does it? Worse: some seconds later, he tells Guybrush that "Elaine's to be mine...to do the sewing and keep the house clean in case we have guests." Uh...no. Totally unfitting here.

Not really. LeChuck didn't really "love" Elaine. Generally, you don't kidnap the ones you love, or try to force them into marriage ceremonies. LeChuck wants to BE loved, sure. But he doesn't love. I don't think he knows how to.

Also the "Plunderbunny" / "Honey Pumpkin" dialogue between Guybrush and Elaine, which I actually find amusing most of the time, didn't really work here I think. There were a couple of more examples which I don't remember right now, though.

I could have done without it, but I don't think it hurt the overall integrity of the scene at all. The two love each other, they spend a good 90% of their time together on crazy pirate adventures, unless it's Guybrush's birthday.

Anyone feeling similar about this?

Nope!

[Farlander]

Personally, for me, the combination of dark/humor (AND even... you know... brutality) is what made the ending just epic. And though similiar to MI2 boss battle in a way, much better.

Guybrush wants to BE loved, sure. But he doesn't love. I don't think he knows how to.

Did you want to say "LeChuck"?

[Rather Dashing]

Originally Posted by Farlander

Personally, for me, the combination of dark/humor (AND even... you know... brutalism) is what made the ending just epic.

Did you want to say "brutality"?

[barchetta]

I just enjoyed ... my brains out. Or something. Found the weird Plunderbunny shout outs very funny! And there were so many, not just 2 or 3 lines being recycled! Wow, enjoyed it immensely!

(and don't forgot to keep watching AFTER the credits!)

[Farlander]

Did you want to say "brutality"?

Touché.

[thesporkman]

Originally Posted by Rather Dashing

Did you want to say "brutality"?

Perhaps he was referring to the architectural movement?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brutalist_architecture

Anyway, I thought the entire sequence was done extremely well. This was easily my favorite final boss fight with LeChuck since Monkey Island 2.

[Byakko]

Elaine's moodshift still irks me. I don't buy it. Not at least with the whole "It's my masterplan ho ho ho" thing at the end. Yeah, masterplan calls for being in control more than 70% of the time, lady. Otherwise it's called improvising, going with the flow, sheer dumb luck.

[Kroms]

Originally Posted by Byakko

Elaine's moodshift still irks me. I don't buy it. Not at least with the whole "It's my masterplan ho ho ho" thing at the end. Yeah, masterplan calls for being in control more than 70% of the time, lady. Otherwise it's called improvising, going with the flow, sheer dumb luck.

I just don't understand how she knew about the ring. That's pretty much as far as her "plan" goes. She does sort of make it up as she goes along, doesn't she?

[Falanca]

Originally Posted by Rather Dashing

Nope!

Nope! I do feel like how Mermaid does. I even said it before finishing the chapter, in another thread.

May not be unrealistic, but it certainly is emotionless. There were so much possibilities when she agreed to be the demon bride (and I have to note that her goth dress was just, awesome). She even sprayed root beer on Guybrush, which is, you know, the way how Guybrush killed LeChuck in the very first game. It was so effective at that time that in order to revive LeChuck, his body had to be resurrected. For the love of this game, Guybrush cheated. He just repeatedly appeared in front of the rip again. Well, what if he couldn't do that? What if that was the REAL end this time? It can't be explained with "I knew you could save me so I did something to get a prettier dress, but it's still a master plan, hehe!".

I didn't have any problems with LeChuck though. He is a PIRATE after all, you know, manly.

Except the dialouges between Morgan and Guybrush, Caleb and some of the puzzles (though I found them really easy compared to the other episodes' puzzles), I can say that I didn't like the episode. Well, at least after Guybrush got his body back, it didn't went that good. The ending was kinda dramatic (the way Guybrush sacrifices his own life with saying 'this, is the only way' and the little playable part after that cutscene in which you kinda think this is the end of the episode, but "the ring" and the "master plan of Elaine" was a little off, if you ask me. No, ending did not satisfy me...

...aaaand then I saw the REAL ending after the credits, and now I say the episode just ROCKED. FINALLY they revealed everything (even S&MS3!!!) and I think I can't love Morgan more than now.

[Fury]

I really enjoyed this episode, but not as much as episode 4. The art and style was fantastic and it was pretty funny, (Grog XD, hilarious) but the puzzles were really simple, it was really easy to find those ingredients and there was normally only one step to each puzzle.

I liked the end ship scene (well, apart from the glitches but they were really minor) but what I thought was missing was some dramatic music. It was really slow paced music, and it didn't fit LeChucks awesome form (Badass Lechuck? MegaAwesome Lechuck? Skeleton Armor Lechuck? I dunno).

I thought the conversations were fine, but the music wasn't good enough. Still, it was a fantastic game overall. Good end to a good series, and it sets it up nicely for a sequel.

[Fury]

I agree with you Falanca. I felt disappointed at the ending of TOMI, although I really enjoyed it, it still felt a bit flat. But I felt fantastic right after seeing the bit after the credits, totally made up for it.

[Byakko]

Originally Posted by Kroms

I just don't understand how she knew about the ring. That's pretty much as far as her "plan" goes. She does sort of make it up as she goes along, doesn't she?

You know what, making Elaine purely evil at some point would've been so much more satisfying because it would literally explain everything.

Because right now Guybrush is sailing with a wife completely willing to turn evil, so evil that she would literally use the most painful and effective methods to kill you in any particular form. And to top it off, she's so direct she prolly do it with no monologue so you have no chance in heck to get a word in.

But it's okay, it was her masterplan. She was secretly rooting for you all along in the 10% of the time she was actually lucid.

[Falanca]

Originally Posted by Fury

I really enjoyed this episode, but not as much as episode 4.

Word.

Originally Posted by Fury

The art and style was fantastic and it was pretty funny, (Grog XD, hilarious) but the puzzles were really simple, it was really easy to find those ingredients and there was normally only one step to each puzzle.

Style was a bit Tim Burton-ish, which got me. It was SO funny at some points, I mean they even added the pot helmet!

Originally Posted by Fury

I liked the end ship scene (well, apart from the glitches but they were really minor) but what I thought was missing was some dramatic music. It was really slow paced music, and it didn't fit LeChucks awesome form (Badass Lechuck? MegaAwesome Lechuck? Skeleton Armor Lechuck? I dunno).

I only encountered one bug, so it ain't that important. They tried something new with the music I can tell, it was composed just for that scene. It lacked something though, I agree. But I learned long ago that I shouldn't expect a guitar solo from Monkey Island anyway.

But... Come on, metal is pirate-y!

Originally Posted by Fury

I thought the conversations were fine, but the music wasn't good enough. Still, it was a fantastic game overall. Good end to a good series, and it sets it up nicely for a sequel.

Season 2 will be better, I can tell.

Originally Posted by Byakko

You know what, making Elaine purely evil at some point would've been so much more satisfying because it would literally explain everything.

Because right now Guybrush is sailing with a wife completely willing to turn evil, so evil that she would literally use the most painful and effective methods to kill you in any particular form. And to top it off, she's so direct she prolly do it with no monologue so you have no chance in heck to get a word in.

But it's okay, it was her masterplan. She was secretly rooting for you all along in the 10% of the time she was actually lucid.

Truth has never spoken that well.

[Kroms]

Originally Posted by Byakko

You know what, making Elaine purely evil at some point would've been so much more satisfying because it would literally explain everything.

Because right now Guybrush is sailing with a wife completely willing to turn evil, so evil that she would literally use the most painful and effective methods to kill you in any particular form. And to top it off, she's so direct she prolly do it with no monologue so you have no chance in heck to get a word in.

But it's okay, it was her masterplan. She was secretly rooting for you all along in the 10% of the time she was actually lucid.

I'm sure I've missed something. There were a lot of dialogue options that I missed out on that explained backstory. We can probably piece it together.

[BeeKay84]

I get your point here, but for some reason, I didn't feel that way about the humor/drama mixture. You know, Monkey Island has kinda always been like that. Even in "LeChuck's Revenge", when Zombie LeChuck was threatening as never before, there were comical scenes included in all the drama, like Guybrush snatching away LeChuck's underpants. Know what I mean?

Originally Posted by Kroms

I just don't understand how she knew about the ring. That's pretty much as far as her "plan" goes. She does sort of make it up as she goes along, doesn't she?

Just like her husband, huh? Who also always thinks he's got everything under control and very well planned...

[Falanca]

I still don't understand how a simple wedding ring can be more powerful than the only permanent ressurrection voodoo spell.

[pluizig]

Originally Posted by Kroms

I just don't understand how she knew about the ring. That's pretty much as far as her "plan" goes.

That's been bugging me, too. If she knew about the ring as the solution to their final problem, she also knew Guybrush had to die (but her final scene in ep4 and her first in ep5 contradict this), AND know the exact workings of the super-secret afterlife-defying voodoo spell (extremely unlikely).

[Secret Fawful]

Originally Posted by Beekay84

I get your point here, but for some reason, I didn't feel that way about the humor/drama mixture. You know, Monkey Island has kinda always been like that. Even in "LeChuck's Revenge", when Zombie LeChuck was threatening as never before, there were comical scenes included in all the drama, like Guybrush snatching away LeChuck's underpants. Know what I mean?

Well make no mistake. This is way darker and more sinister than LeChuck's Revenge ever was. But it was great. The humor was there but more subtle, like the pot helmet, or the skeleton army wearing inner tubes.