Click And Drag In Future Games...

[Teeth]

I've finally figured out that the only reason I find the click and drag system uncomfortable is because it's assigned to the left mouse button - this means that there's a danger of accidentally clicking something when you mean to move somewhere, or vice versa. Plus if I want to move across a room and interact with something, I have to hold the button down, let go, then press it again.

Would it be at all possible for the click and drag system to be re-assigned to the right mouse button in future? That way we could interact with objects while walking, and it would mean that the double left-click run could return.

[Lena_P]

Right clicking makes you run, so you can already move with the right button.

[LuigiHann]

Originally Posted by Lena_P

Right clicking makes you run, so you can already move with the right button.

But you can still accidentally move with the left button, which is his issue I think.

Doesn't happen often to me, since moving requires a distinct dragging motion, but I can only speak for myself.

[The Commissioner]

I think it works OK the way it is. At the moment, to look at something while you are moving, you have to be automatic walking by clicking on an interactable object and the character will automatically route to it. There are usually plenty of things to click on and move that way.

While you are dragging, your mouse movement controls the direction, so obviously you can't be looking and clicking at other things while you are doing this, because if you moved the mouse to hover over a hotspot it would change the walking direction.

[GTALostHeaven]

I HATE click and drag , but I love the WASD movement controlls so if they keep them I'll just pretend the drag feature doesnt exist.

[The Spoony Hou]

I've never had an issue of accidentally move or click something when I didn't want to.

But, I still can't figure out why the normal 'click here to walk' controls aren't implemented in the ToMI. I suppose the control pad movement is better for people playing with... pads, but why put it in a PC game? At least give us the option.

[The Commissioner]

Originally Posted by The Spoony Hou

I've never had an issue of accidentally move or click something when I didn't want to.

But, I still can't figure out why the normal 'click here to walk' controls aren't implemented in the ToMI. I suppose the control pad movement is better for people playing with... pads, but why put it in a PC game? At least give us the option.

You must not have seen the threads explaining about needing the extra programming to put clickable movement hotspots on the floor (especially in 3D environments where there's the distance factor) and the new camera angles they are using meaning that the floor isn't always there to see.

It's not just a case of adapting to control pad movement - I like the click and drag (as an alternative to keyboard movement) - because it provides direct control - who says PC players don't want direct control of the character movement?

They deliberately excluded point and click walking because they wanted:

• More camera angles
• Direct control and immersive playing
• Less programming time
• Easy adpatation for consoles

And probably more stuff I forgot. Clicking on the floor just doesn't make the cut these days. I don't see why people uphold point and click as the ultimate form of gameplay because it ain't all that fabulous. It's functional but do I want to play games the same way forever? No, I want them to evolve and show me more.

[[TTG] Yare]

Originally Posted by The Commissioner

You must not have seen the threads explaining about needing the extra programming to put clickable movement hotspots on the floor (especially in 3D environments where there's the distance factor) and the new camera angles they are using meaning that the floor isn't always there to see.

It has nothing to do with extra/difficult programming. It is mathematically impossible to solve for an intersection point that doesn't exist (well, in some cases there is an imaginary solution but that's hardly useful here) -i.e. the ground plane is not being clicked on. New cinematography direction says we want to have interesting camera angles, so we needed a way to move the character around without the ground plane being in the shot. That left us with WASD and Click/Drag.

[donut]

I hate WASD. I won't buy a game like Tales of Monkey Island again. I like the steering of games like Sam'n'Max or the easy user interface of Ankh (also a funny adventure, and i don't need to think a second about the steering). ToMI episodes 2-5 are unused at my side. It's best if i don't even need to touch a keyboard hile playing (makes it easier with a daugther to play Ankh on TV (with attached PC and just an easy trackball as "remote").
If a next Sam n Max game ill be like ToMI I just won't buy it because of the user interface. I really hate it. It was the lousiest spend money. Hey, i bought Bone, Sam'n'Max Season 1+2, (season 1 twice ( translated) ). I liked to play them. But i get angry when thinking that i spend money for ToMI. Not for story , just because of the user interface.
A lousy use interface as for me the point not to buy Monkey Island 4 ages ago. And it will be definitly be the "do not buy" reason for me for new Telltale Games. Heck, camera is just a bit of presentation. Much more user unfriendly mouse movement is necessary to use ToMI than e.g. Bone.
It's a little bit sad to don't play new games ith the rabbity thing, but if you use the steering of Tales of Monkey Island I ill be glad NOT to buy another Sam'n'Max.

And one thing: What does a cinematography director know about gameplay? His ork is about presentation, not about using sth.

[Falanca]

That's just a little harsh if you ask me... I agree WASD can be a little annoying when playing a slow-going game like most of the adventure games, but the real presentation is the CLICK'N DRAG gameplay and WASD is just a secondary back-up gameplay element. Click'n drag ain't as good as point and walk maybe, but still it's not that bad to say that the whole game is ruined just because of the gameplay.

[Pantagruel's Friend]

Originally Posted by [TTG] Yare

It has nothing to do with extra/difficult programming. It is mathematically impossible to solve for an intersection point that doesn't exist (well, in some cases there is an imaginary solution but that's hardly useful here) -i.e. the ground plane is not being clicked on. New cinematography direction says we want to have interesting camera angles, so we needed a way to move the character around without the ground plane being in the shot. That left us with WASD and Click/Drag.

I still think this reasoning doesn't convince everyone (me, for example ) - but I don't think there's a lot of sense in arguing. Telltale has taken a firm decision with Wallace & Gromit, they're continuously refining the method, and the results are definitely far from terrible. I don't think there's any going back now.

Also, TTG-Yare, thanks for taking all the time sharing your thoughts about the control method, instead of just saying - "hey, live with it" (or not saying anything at all)

[[TTG] Yare]

Originally Posted by Pantagruel's Friend

I still think this reasoning doesn't convince everyone (me, for example )

Are you unconvinced by the mathematical impossibility, or the cinematography decision that lead us there? I can help you understand the former but not the latter.

Originally Posted by Pantagruel's Friend

Also, TTG-Yare, thanks for taking all the time sharing your thoughts about the control method, instead of just saying - "hey, live with it" (or not saying anything at all)

Hey, glad to help! Also, thank you guys for keeping the number of "That guy who made the controls should be fired!" posts relatively low.

[Ashton]

Originally Posted by [TTG] Yare

Hey, glad to help! Also, thank you guys for keeping the number of "That guy who made the controls should be fired!" posts relatively low.

Well some of us know that even if you agreed with _US_ (that the controls were a bad idea) you were likely told "program it or else" by top brass. Also I'm willing to bet it acctually involved _MORE_ code than the original interface (since the original one could be called with a simple command akin to "onMouseClick:Walk(X,Y)" while the new one requires indipentant commands for each button as well as intervals and shifts in camera angels depending on which button is pressed, etc)

[[TTG] Yare]

Originally Posted by Ashton

Well some of us know that even if you agreed with _US_ (that the controls were a bad idea) you were likely told "program it or else" by top brass. Also I'm willing to bet it acctually involved _MORE_ code than the original interface (since the original one could be called with a simple command akin to "onMouseClick:Walk(X,Y)" while the new one requires indipentant commands for each button as well as intervals and shifts in camera angels depending on which button is pressed, etc)

Very astute. Though it was less "program it or else" and more "here's the requirements your system needs to meet".

[The Spoony Hou]

Originally Posted by The Commissioner

It's functional but do I want to play games the same way forever? No, I want them to evolve and show me more.

Yeah, I want them to evolve too, but this is no evolution.

Originally Posted by [TTG] Yare

New cinematography direction says we want to have interesting camera angles, so we needed a way to move the character around without the ground plane being in the shot. That left us with WASD and Click/Drag.

Well, I thought it would be simple to give priority to the ground, but what do I know... It seems 3D doesn't make things any simpler. Well, I hope some day you guys find a better solution.

[WarpSpeed]

How about, make the floor clickable if you can see it (and Sam or whatever character you're playing moves to where you clicked), and if you can't see the floor, moving the mouse to the edge of the screen changes the pointer icon to left, right, up, down, or turn around, which causes the view to shift so that hopefully some floor is visible somewhere?

Just throwing out more ideas. An imaginary axis on the mouse would be nice, too.

[Ashton]

Originally Posted by [TTG] Yare

Very astute. Though it was less "program it or else" and more "here's the requirements your system needs to meet".

I tend to forget how nice the people at TTG are. In retrospect I suspect none of them would ever use thw words "or else"

[Pantagruel's Friend]

Originally Posted by [TTG] Yare

Are you unconvinced by the mathematical impossibility, or the cinematography decision that lead us there? I can help you understand the former but not the latter.

Heh, neither as such, actually I'm very happy with the cinematography decision, even though it feels more relevant in Wallace & Gromit than in Tales. But I think there's a lot of subtlety in Tales that will shine through only on the 2nd playthrough, so I'm not making final statements until then.

About the intersection stuff, I do understand that it's impossible to calculate exactly. The question is, how accurately it can be estimated, and what kind of extra data is needed - I imagine it easily leads to an extra "click-map" for each shot. And even so, it may not feel accurate enough - I cannot tell without actually trying it. So, if the statement is "not feasible", I can easily believe that - but I'm very reluctant to accept the "impossible"

Originally Posted by [TTG] Yare

Hey, glad to help! Also, thank you guys for keeping the number of "That guy who made the controls should be fired!" posts relatively low.

After all the counter-hype (is there such a word? ), I was pleasantly surprised by the W&G controls, as they felt very handy. Sure, I missed p&c, but by the time Tales came, I got used to the arrows control, and after a few attempts, I stuck with them instead of click-and-drag. So there goes the disaster

[SHODANFreeman]

WASD > Click to move. Playing P&C adventures feels really primitive after playing W&G and TMI extensively. It's like going back to Diablo 2 after playing WoW.

[PariahKing]

I really, really like click and drag. But I use the arrow keys (being left handed) and click and drag interchangeably.

Notice how the amount of people upset vocally went down as the game extended through the plotline? People got over the change. (Well, the majority.) But you can't please everyone or harass Yare enough.