DEVS: How about creating a new long Monkey Island game?

[monkey_05_06]

Originally Posted by Otis

99.9% of games are released non-episodic so i dont see how can the episodic style of releasing a game be better!?

Bloody hell you're right! Ideas like "episodic gaming" are far too unique, original, and non-standard compared to mainstream gaming to be good. In fact, any ideas which deviate from the mainstream are to be avoided like the plague. In a perfect world everything would be exactly the same; nothing would be any different from anything else. That would be for the best. What's with these jokers thinking that anything non-standard could ever be "better"?

[/sarcasm]

[Otis]

Originally Posted by Secret Fawful

Tales is LOOOONG, and Tales is a new MI game.

Tales is not

Originally Posted by Secret Fawful

LOOOONG

Tales is without a doubt the shortest MI game yet. I know that it might be because of some time and/or money related issues. ( one reason that there is so little time is that they have to release a new episode monthly?? )

Originally Posted by monkey_05_06

Bloody hell you're right! Ideas like "episodic gaming" are far too unique, original, and non-standard compared to mainstream gaming to be good. In fact, any ideas which deviate from the mainstream are to be avoided like the plague. In a perfect world everything would be exactly the same; nothing would be any different from anything else. That would be for the best. What's with these jokers thinking that anything non-standard could ever be "better"?

[/sarcasm]

If episodic style is better, dont you think other companies, the rest 99.9% would release their games episodic also?
(I think these episodic games are great, although i prefer longer non-episodic games.)

What you are trying to say here is that, if the next MI game would be released all at once, you wouldnt give a shit?

"Oh my! It would be sooo mainstream. If its not unique, not original and not non-standard, I dont like it"

If the next game, for some reason will be non-episodic, you guys really think its for the worse?

[/no sarcasm]

[monkey_05_06]

Epically long, fully qualified post complete with referencing and examples has failed. So, long story short, Tales of Monkey Island is not the shortest MI game to date, The Secret of Monkey Island™ is.

Oh and also I never said that the episodic format is better but that doesn't make it inherently worse either. It doesn't honestly affect the gameplay that drastically. The first four games were already split into parts. The only difference is now you have to launch each part individually from each other. Oh no, that completely and totally makes the game so horribly, terribly different...oh wait, no it doesn't.

[Icedhope]

Each episode is about 3-4 hours long.. theres 5 eps so it's almost 30 hours thats a long game. If your first time through.

[Leak]

Originally Posted by Icedhope

Each episode is about 3-4 hours long.. theres 5 eps so it's almost 30 hours thats a long game.

Is that "almost 30 hours" for very large values of "15-20 hours"?

[TomPravetz]

Originally Posted by Otis

Tales is without a doubt the shortest MI game yet.

Except for EfMI. "Monkey Kombat!" (quit)

[PecanBlue]

Originally Posted by Otis

If episodic style is better, dont you think other companies, the rest 99.9% would release their games episodic also?

Comparing what one company does to what most other companies do isn't exactly a good defense, especially if the company doing something different is successfully pulling off their sales and attention-seeking with their format. But I don't think anyone is specifically arguing that the episodic release is "better" than a single long release, just that they prefer it for this type of game. I believe both kinds of releases have their major pros and cons, anyway.

I'm sure there is a reason for why this specific company goes for the episodic format. I don't know what it is, but it could be anything from how their budget or deadlines work, so keeping everyone interested via monthly releases might be the best strategy for getting their sales or something.

Personally, I like the episodic format. It makes the game feel a lot longer and keeps me interested for a very long time. I like to be able to anticipate and discuss the next release. That's one of the things that LeChuck's Revenge and Curse didn't have, as much as I liked them better than Tales; I feel as if they went by too quickly.

[SHODANFreeman]

Just say no to non-episodic adventure games.

[MusicallyInspired]

I wouldn't say "no" so much as I'd say "not this time maybe later." I'd like a good long adventure game again someday. I haven't heard flattering things about A Vampyre Story and I have never seen it on any store shelves either, otherwise I'd have bought it by now.

[Otis]

Originally Posted by monkey_05_06

Epically long, fully qualified post complete with referencing and examples has failed. So, long story short, Tales of Monkey Island is not the shortest MI game to date, The Secret of Monkey Island™ is.

You cant be serious!? You really pull some SMI speedrun link into this?! Of course when someone knows every move of the game and has practised completing the game asap. its not the same thing as playing the ToMI eps. first time after another.
Atleast it takes me way over 10 hours to recomplete SMI if I dont remember all the puzzles that well.

Originally Posted by Icedhope

Each episode is about 3-4 hours long.. theres 5 eps so it's almost 30 hours thats a long game. If your first time through.

It took me usually about 2 hours + 30min max. to complete each episode in the first time so the the game was around 10 hours to me and that IS short.

[estariel]

I very much liked the episodic format. I do not have lots of time to play video games, so I was busy for a week or two with each episode. Then I had another two weeks to look forward to the next one, which was almost as much fun as playing. It was great .

[LowMoralFiber]

Originally Posted by simpanssi

able to have sex with Morgan?

Cue "Hot Grog" jokes.

I actually think the episodic format is much better for games like Monkey Island! Breaking the story into episodes gave you more time to think about what you just saw, and actually made me grow more and more attached to the characters than I would have if Tales had been one long slog. I thought and cared about the story much more than I would have otherwise!

[Iron Curtain]

Originally Posted by Otis

You cant be serious!? You really pull some SMI speedrun link into this?! Of course when someone knows every move of the game and has practised completing the game asap. its not the same thing as playing the ToMI eps. first time after another.
Atleast it takes me way over 10 hours to recomplete SMI if I dont remember all the puzzles that well.



It took me usually about 2 hours + 30min max. to complete each episode in the first time so the the game was around 10 hours to me and that IS short.

If each episode takes about 2:30 episodes max, that's 12 hours and 30 minutes. Also, it didn't take me that short of a time. It took me about 4-5 hours per episode. That's 25 hours total for me. If you know everything in SoMI and try to rush through it, it's about 4 hours, telling by my save file in SoMI:SE for iPhone and iPod Touch. And if you rush through an episode of ToMI (or any other Telltale game), it's about 2 hours, which makes each Telltale episode half a length of SoMI.

So there.

[jmm]

5,002 points for Iron Curtain

5,000 points for effective use of the "Objection" pict
0,002 points for the argument

[Otis]

Originally Posted by Iron Curtain

If each episode takes about 2:30 episodes max, that's 12 hours and 30 minutes. Also, it didn't take me that short of a time. It took me about 4-5 hours per episode. That's 25 hours total for me. If you know everything in SoMI and try to rush through it, it's about 4 hours, telling by my save file in SoMI:SE for iPhone and iPod Touch. And if you rush through an episode of ToMI (or any other Telltale game), it's about 2 hours, which makes each Telltale episode half a length of SoMI.

So there.

max. 2:30 doesnt mean every episode takes me 2:30. For example the first one took me 1:45 and after practising it few times I managed to rush it in 30 min (know everything, skip all the texts and vids)
However, the structure of SMI and ToMI is completely different so if u really practise speedrunning SMI, it can actually be completed a lot faster than the whole ToMI season. But I think that a huge part of the gaming value of a game is in the first completion, not in speedrunning.

But, not to get all too distracted from the topic, My answer is yes to creating a new long monkey island game, although the episodes werent too bad either.

[SHODANFreeman]

If you actually go through each episode slowly and listen to all the dialogue and explore different objects (which I don't know why you wouldn't, it's half the fun of an adventure game), you'll easily get to 20 hours between all 5 episodes. I think $35 for a 20 hour game is more than reasonable.

I think if you were to count how many separate puzzles are in each MI game, TMI wouldn't be far behind, if at all. I think MI1 is probably the shortest game in the series, actually.

[monkey_05_06]

Originally Posted by Otis

You cant be serious!? You really pull some SMI speedrun link into this?! Of course when someone knows every move of the game and has practised completing the game asap. its not the same thing as playing the ToMI eps. first time after another.
Atleast it takes me way over 10 hours to recomplete SMI if I dont remember all the puzzles that well.

Well seeing as I've been playing the game since I was a kid I have every single move necessary to completion pretty well memorized. It's not like it's even difficult. There's honestly not that much that needs to be done.

Even if someone memorized all the puzzles in ToMI, skipped all skippable cutscenes, stopped the timer for every loading screen and loading up the next chapter...there is absolutely no way it is possible to beat the game in under an hour. Period.

So yeah, I'm serious. I pulled a speed run into it. If you want to compare the length of the games, let's compare the ACTUAL length of the games instead of your perceived length of the games. Just because the game might feel shorter to you does not mean that it is shorter.

Originally Posted by Otis

It took me usually about 2 hours + 30min max. to complete each episode in the first time so the the game was around 10 hours to me and that IS short

Again this falls back to your perception vs. reality. Okay so you can work your way through the episodes pretty quickly. That's nice. But it's still not under an hour.

By your own logic SoMI was a short game. Comparing the actual length of the games, SoMI was the shortest MI game to date. I also thoroughly enjoy the way that you contest the fact that I linked to a speedrun and then in your next post turned around and started going on about how fast you can beat LotSN.

A point that I touched on in the aforementioned epic post that failed is that even if we compare the locations in the games, ToMI actually has more plotline-relevant locations that SoMI did. I understand SoMI had some very large locations, but much of it was dead space or just completely irrelevant to the actual game. Yes, this produces an atmosphere to the game. I understand that. But large islands full of empty space is not the only way to produce atmosphere.

ToMI actually focuses less on filler areas and more on locations that actually matter. Of course arguably these filler areas can make the game last longer (to the unbeknownst player) because you have a bunch of red herring areas to explore, but that doesn't make the actual game longer. Once you've familiarized yourself with the game, unless you're intentionally going back to get the "full" experience, there's no reason to even revisit these locations. In my speedrun quite a few of the areas in the game are completely skipped over for this exact reason.

Besides, the question at hand here isn't whether ToMI was of higher quality, the question being brought forth was the length of the game vs. the original four. Even if we take a look simply at an outline of the plot ToMI is a lot longer and more intricate than SoMI was. There is a lot more to be done in ToMI than in SoMI. This contributes to the actual length of the game. There are more steps to completing ToMI and each of those steps takes time to complete.

As has been said though, I honestly don't think anybody is arguing that the episodic format is BETTER than the single game format. Again, just like from my last post:

Originally Posted by monkey_05_06

Oh and also I never said that the episodic format is better but that doesn't make it inherently worse either. It doesn't honestly affect the gameplay that drastically. The first four games were already split into parts. The only difference is now you have to launch each part individually from each other. Oh no, that completely and totally makes the game so horribly, terribly different...oh wait, no it doesn't.

So (to me at least), make a single game, make episodic games, it makes no difference. As long as it gets made. I'm not demanding it right away though of course. Just don't leave us hanging for 10 years till we get our next Guybrush fix.

[Falanca]

I can be wrong about this one, but I believe episodic adventure games have more puzzles by comparison. Because each episode has a quota of puzzles and that must be determined better than a whole game. Tales can be shorter, but I think it's because the puzzles are fairly easier than the first two games of the franchise. A player who knows all the puzzles and skips all the dialouges ("who does a speedrun" is also fine) can complete The Secret of Monkey Island faster than Tales because Secret has less but harder puzzles.

[monkey_05_06]

I'm not entirely sure I agree that all of the puzzles in SoMI were (even on average) more difficult than the puzzles in ToMI (again, on average). When it comes to puzzles this is very much a personal experience. What one person perceives as an "easy" puzzle could actually be the most difficult puzzle in the game for another person. Even if the two people are of similar intelligence the thought processes involved can still be very different.

I wanted to clarify something though and this also ties in nicely, which is regarding the actual length of the games versus the perceived length, this can also be very much a personal experience. Obviously Otis perceived ToMI to be very short in comparison to the four prior MI games. Myself on the other hand, I perceived ToMI to be of pretty decent length in all respects. Perhaps not as long as say CoMI, but still longer (perceptually) than SoMI.

Each person's perception of how long the game is will likely be massively impacting to their opinion of how it ranks up in comparison to other games (both the rest of the MI series and just other games in general), but to get an unbiased opinion on the matter one also has to take into account the actual length as well. Which is why I feel that it's important to point out that whatever any individual may perceive about ToMI, it is not actually the shortest MI game to date. Just to be a little more clear on that.