I really hate Elaine in the ending sequence (SPOILER)

[Voodoomaster]

I think that Episode 5 was great, but maybe the best thing that the TellTale can do in the next season (if there will be), it's showing something more about the first season plot, because I think that too many things remain unexplained (who brought away the Morgan's body?? what was the Elaine's Master Plan??? what was written into the Voodoo Lady's Journal???)

Everybody of us can give a good answer to these questions, and that's ok, but the point is that maybe more things should have been explained INTO the game...and maybe Guybrush itself, for a good characterization, should have some doubt about it, not simply ending the game with himself asking "WHAT WAS THE PRONOUNCE OF ESPONJA"???

However, I don't want to say that this is a bad choice. This is a good choice, but only if in the next season they will explain some mistery, and Guybrush shows some doubt about them. I hope they will not forget about this...

[Vainamoinen]

Originally Posted by Bloody Eugene

The qustion is:
why YOU have to tell me the ending, and not the game itself?


[..]
This is really poor writing.

I think that Telltale made "The f***ing great Elaine's plan" out to tight some loose ends that they weren't able to explain.
Poor writing , as I said.

I'm with you in many respects. I, too, consider these hickups to be the result of bad planning. The writing might have been excellent, but come episode five, TTG might have recognized that they just don't have the time to end the story arc as originally planned. From Guybrush's hand being reattached by the Vacalian's powers to a proper explanation of LeChuck's and Elaine's "plan" - it just couldn't be done just in one episode without severely getting on the player's nerves by playing one cutscene after another.

One big resolution at the end and many, many smaller ones during the episodes, that should have been the plan. Maybe next time!

[Voodoomaster]

It may have been the result of poor writing and/or bad planning, but it can be totally fixed in the next game...

It must be totally fixed in the next game...

[PecanBlue]

Wait, everyone mentions a "master plan" but when did she ever mention having one?

[Giant Tope]

Originally Posted by Voodoomaster

It may have been the result of poor writing and/or bad planning, but it can be totally fixed in the next game...

It must be totally fixed in the next game...

Since when was plot consistency important in Monkey Island?

[Voodoomaster]

Ehm...plot consistency is supposed to be important EVERYWHERE, because it's one of the things that give quality to a story...

So the artists who gave in "Curse of Monkey Island" their explanation for the end of "LeChuck's Revenge", so to give to the saga a "plot consistency" are stupid because they did it, instead of, I don't know, sleeping more hours in the night...and this because "plot consistency is not important"?

[GaryCXJk]

Wait, what did you just say?

There is a logical explanation for all of what happened at the end of ToMI. I'll sum it up a bit, but it's basically a simplified story synopsis of what some others have made.

Cutlass of Kaflu? Totally planned to work, were it not that Guybrush fumbled the final ingredient. Not the plan. Also not the plan that LeChuck became human. So, Elaine had to adjust her plans.

Meanwhile, Guybrush loses his wedding ring, and Elaine gives him hers. I don't think she knows why she has to give it to Guybrush, but it is heavily implied at the end that she does know that it comes in handy in the future. At the same time, Elaine has no choice but to trust LeChuck. Why?

In Tales of Monkey Island, you find the belt of Human LeChuck, which, as the description of the item says, radiates trust, you're basically trusting the one who wears it. It's also charmed. This is further demonstrated when Guybrush shows it to the ghost thief, and he believes anything Guybrush sells him.

So, Elaine not being able to do jack was all due to the belt. If you remember correctly, in chapter three, when flashing back to Elaine, you see that she actually wants to search for Guybrush, but then LeChuck makes her go put every monkey in the right spot, even at an outrageous place as a float in the middle of the ocean.

Anyway, flash forward to chapter five. Elaine is heart struck with the death of Guybrush, an unforeseen event. Anyway, when Guybrush finally gets back to the land of the living, Elaine then hears about how the cutlass can't be handled by something mortal, so, in an impulse (you can see that it's an impulse movement she makes, because of her facial expression) she decides to become a Demon Bride. Of LeChuck.

Flash forward again. Elaine becomes human again when the sponge returns to normal size. Not really foreseen, but at least something Elaine hoped, but Elaine turns back to human. Now that she has the cutlass in her hands, she can continue to slay evil with said powerful enchanted weapon of mass pirate destruction or at least dismemberment. Finally, Guybrush gets locked at the Crossroads, with LeChuck having been slain.

Of course, Elaine didn't know the ring actually would bring Guybrush back, or, perhaps she knew it would, or something. I don't know. But the point is, Elaine knew it would at least be something Guybrush could use in the future, seeing as she's aware of Guybrush' track record of using the most useless things to solve something to progress his life and adventures and quest and whatever he needs to solve to progress.

So, there you have it. Easy as pie.

In short:

Elaine never had a master plan. She had little, short term plans, which either turned out crap or turned out great. She didn't give the ring to Guybrush knowing he would be killed and brought back. In fact, she didn't plan anything ahead. That's what Elaine shows to us, and that's how it should be perceived. If you over-analyze, you'll only end up with the first four letters of analyze.

[Voodoomaster]

Everybody has understood that everything has an explanation, but I re-quote myself :

The point is that maybe more things should have been explained INTO the game...and maybe Guybrush itself, for a good characterization, should have some doubt about it, not simply ending the game with himself asking "WHAT WAS THE PRONOUNCE OF ESPONJA"???

I don't think that "Rise" is a bad chapter, it's my favourite with "Trial and Execution", and some sequence in the episode really made me cry, but explaining more things would have been a mark of more writing quality, that maybe they could'nt reach because of the running that the deadline caused.

I say this also because it's right having mysteries in the end that create questions for a sequel, but in "Rise", all the plot of THIS game was shady in the end, because of explanations that with more sequences could have been easily shown...

But it's ok if the good explanations will be in a next chapter, and if in the next Chapter Guybrush shows some doubt instead of seeing all of these things and asking no questions. I've faith about it...

[Diduz]

I'm with Bloody Eugene on this.

Originally Posted by GaryCXJk

So, Elaine not being able to do jack was all due to the belt.

Are you sure of this? In an ep5 cutscene
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQCWT...B30CB7&index=3
(7:10)

she says:

"I LET you capture me and I PLAYED ALONG with your stupid nice guy act because I thought it would get Guybrush to realize that the Voodoo Lady-"

That's another annoying contraddiction. Did the belt force her to follow LeChuck (Elaine's lying) or did she pretend to believe to LeChuck (the Voodoo Lady's lying)?
Also, the idea of Elaine not telling Guybrush the problem with the Voodoo Lady right from the start is absurd. There is no mystery related to it; Elaine just admits that she knew the Voodoo Lady was up to no good. She did know about the risks concerning the Voodoo Lady's actions, but she let Guybrush (and us) go through ep1-4 just for the sake of... what, exactly? It makes no sense to me.
This is totally different from the old "Monkey-1" Elaine who got a root beer for herself, organizing her jailbreak from LeChuck's Ghost Ship. In Monkey 1 she was saving herself, she didn't know that Guybrush was going to save her.
In ep1 prologue, she has all the time she wants to warn Guybrush about the Voodoo Lady, but she just shouts "Finish the recipe!".

You know what, it seems to me that the whole "Elaine-knowing-it-all-from-the-beginning" twist was a last-minute integration in an original story where she just handled the ring to Guybrush because it was a symbol of their marriage, and she was forced to follow LeChuck by the belt.
No joke, if you cut two or three lines from ep5 and rewrite the last scene, you'll get a consistent Elaine (and a consistent plot) once again. No need to rewrite her role in previous episodes!!!

[Bloody Eugene]

Originally Posted by GaryCXJk

Wait, what did you just say?
So, there you have it. Easy as pie.

Easy as a pie???? You wrote the longest reply!!!

And by the way these are your convintions, that altough pretty logical could not be true.

Because the game itself don't give explaination to questions like:
Why she knew she has to give Guybrush the ring?
Why she said she had always a plan?
Where's the body of Morgan?
Why Guybrush's hand reappeared?
What are the plans of Voodoo Lady?
What's written in the Voodoo Lady's diary?
Why Guybrush didn't read it?

There are lot of things left unanswered....

The problem is that you have to add these questions to:
What's the secret of monkey island? What's Big Whoop? What happens to the end of MI2? Are they really brothers? Is it just a kid's dream?
I was capable to left behind those old questions, but now Telltale added many new ones.
Really frustrating.

And with all these question in mind, the only final answer is the pronunciation of "La Esponja Grande"? Come on......
A bad written, unsatisfying, rushed ending. IMHO.

[PecanBlue]

About the belt: She most likely didn't know at all that it was voodoo-infused. Notice how when you use it on the thief he's all "I don't know why, but I trust you" or something like that. When she was under the effects of its charms she probably didn't realize it and just shook it off as her playing along since she couldn't exactly explain what she was feeling. Considering she's a tough girl, she could have been denying that she let her guard down, also.

Now why she didn't tell Guybrush her suspicions from the start is a big mystery, yes, but we don't really know what might have happened before the whole cutlass thing, so you're free to make your own assumptions. I personally believe she and Guybrush had a spat about Voodoo Lady before the events of Tales and he didn't believe her so she came up with a show-don't-tell plan that didn't exactly work.

[Bloody Eugene]

Originally Posted by Diduz

You know what, it seems to me that the whole "Elaine-knowing-it-all-from-the-beginning" twist was a last-minute integration in an original story where she just handled the ring to Guybrush because it was a symbol of their marriage, and she was forced to follow LeChuck by the belt.

Absolutely agree.
A game ruined by rush writing.

Originally Posted by Diduz

No joke, if you cut two or three lines from ep5 and rewrite the last scene, you'll get a consistent Elaine (and a consistent plot) once again. No need to rewrite her role in previous episodes!!!

Yes, it would be fantastic. It would be great if Telltale - or even Mark Darin himself - do this "Director's cut". They can cut some lines and also add a longer hug, a kiss or somewhat for more satisfying ending.
I really hope they do that.

[hplikelike]

Originally Posted by Maxilyah

Because while this season may be over, the game itself might not be over yet. If they decide to do a second season, I'm sure that everything will be explained. And at this point, how can they not do a second season? The last scene is obviously a teaser.

Like MI2?

Yes, I went there.

[Diduz]

Originally Posted by Bloody Eugene

Yes, it would be fantastic. It would be great if Telltale - or even Mark Darin himself - do this "Director's cut". They can cut some lines and also add a longer hug, a kiss or somewhat for more satisfying ending.
I really hope they do that.

I have to stress that IMHO ToMI is - up until ep4 - the best Monkey Island sequel after LeChuck's Revenge, and I mean it.
Telltale did an incredible work, considering that they tried not to alter the franchise, developing it in a new way.
That's the reason I am so irritated by the finale. If the whole game had huge problems, I wouldn't bother to suggest these (minor-but-HUGE-for-the-logic-of-the-plot) corrections. If the series was a total disaster, I guess me and Bloody Eugene would just dismiss it altogether, without a fight.

I just think it's a pity that a truly great experience is marred by a convoluted and messy narrative right at the photo finish! Come on! I don't think these minor corrections would compromise what we all loved in ep5: the power of love , Guybrush's sacrifice , Elaine's strength, the eerie atmosphere. I didn't like the idea of another mystery (Voodoo Lady's plan) in the already messed-up Monkey Island continuity, but I can accept the creative choice: the Voodoo Lady mystery is presented as a mystery. I may like it, I may not, but I understand there's a mystery.
On the other hand, Elaine's plan is not a mystery, it's just a good reason for Guybrush to get a divorce as soon as possible. The girl's out of her mind.

P.S.: Of course, an explanation for Morgan's body disappearance would be nice too.

[StarEye]

Originally Posted by hplikelike

Like MI2?

Yes, I went there.

Yes, like MI2, don't really see what you're hinting at here.

[pluizig]

Originally Posted by PecanBlue

(...) so [Elaine] came up with a show-don't-tell plan that didn't exactly work.

That's putting it lightly. She endangered dozens (maybe hundreds) of pirates and got Guybrush killed just to prove a point? I know she didn't 'foresee' the Pox getting out and LeChuck killing her husband in her 'plan', but maybe she shouldn't have played with fire then. This whole ordeal could've been avoided if Elaine hadn't taken stupid risks for no reason other than provide a argument for her opinion -that the Voodoo Lady isn't that benevolent.

Magnificent bastard, you say? There is no magnificence in this bastardry.

[Chris1]

Sorry, but can I just point something out about the wedding ring thing?

Why does everyone think that Elaine gave him her wedding ring as some sort of plan? She probably just gave him the ring to stop him being hit on. We all know what the Merfolk were like...

[GaryCXJk]

Originally Posted by Chris1

We all know what the Merfolk were like...

Gender ambiguous?

[PecanBlue]

Originally Posted by pluizig

That's putting it lightly. She endangered dozens (maybe hundreds) of pirates and got Guybrush killed just to prove a point? I know she didn't 'foresee' the Pox getting out and LeChuck killing her husband in her 'plan', but maybe she shouldn't have played with fire then. This whole ordeal could've been avoided if Elaine hadn't taken stupid risks for no reason other than provide a argument for her opinion -that the Voodoo Lady isn't that benevolent.

Magnificent bastard, you say? There is no magnificence in this bastardry.

Geez, you're a little too bitter and over-dramatic for a comedic game. If I had that attitude I would be getting pissed at Guybrush for risking someone's life multiple times by turning them into gold and letting them get kidnapped two times due to his own stupidity. But this is fiction, so we find it endearing.

Oh, and there's a certain mighty pirate hunter who handed Guybrush in to a scientist, thus letting him get captured by a mob and then putting him on a trial where he has to defend himself to avoid execution, (and she didn't even bother to help) thus not letting the pirate hero go out and save the pirates that are already endangered, and thus quite possibly causing him to get killed altogether, all because she decided to take an oath to hunt down what was her supposed hero. Who cares that she redeems herself, let's all hate on her!

Calm down, people make mistakes.

Either way, Elaine didn't construct the cutlass, nor did she revive LeChuck, nor did she tell Guybrush to put something other than root beer on the cutlass. In fact, I can't find any reason for why she would let herself get captured other than to watch the scene play out, since even if she would have helped, you can't get rid of LeChuck without the cutlass. My best guess is that she let LeChuck board her own ship to attract the attention of Guybrush for the scene to happen, but pretty much the game's point is that everything was going to happen anyway without being avoided, because Voodoo Lady plans everything and Elaine just couldn't outsmart her.

[mystique48]

Originally Posted by Voodoomaster

I think that Episode 5 was great, but maybe the best thing that the TellTale can do in the next season

please don't think and speak about "SEASONS"...it is the same difference between a movie and a telefilm (in seasons)
...Monkey Island isn't an alternative graphic adventure of "sam & max" or "wallace and ..uhm..the other": it is a great game because of the great work of many years behind. Telltale could publish a season of monkey island every 6 months, but it would be a great error because every monkey island is one game itself, with the engine "graphic ecc." completely different from the previous