I really hate Elaine in the ending sequence (SPOILER)

[GaryCXJk]

Originally Posted by MusicallyInspired

I hate it when people say it's just a game. Would people say "You're being over-analytical, it's just a movie"? or "It's just a play?" or "It's just a novel?" It's a story and when a story isn't done well enough to sit right with the audience then it is a problem. It's not "just a game" especially where adventure games of all things are concerned. Adventure games ARE story. You can't be over-analytical any more than you can be for a story in any other form.

That being said, that doesn't mean I necessarily agree with everything said so far.

Actually, yeah. People are also over-analytic with movies, plays, novels, music, poems, a YouTube video of someone taking a dump, the Internet, everything.

That being said, what's not to "get" about the ending? It's all about faith and trust. That's what ToMI is all about. Faith in believing everything will be alright. Trust in your enemy, expecing that other to do what's right. Misplace trust and faith. If you're being analytic, at least do it right.

[Juicius Maximus]

Here's a question for your analysis: Can something truly be over-analyzed, or only incorrectly analyzed?

You can probably tell what I think by the framing of the question, but I swear it's not rhetorical!

[Avistew]

I think you can over-analyse if you analyse so much that you don't enjoy whatever you're analysing as much anymore.

[nachtritter]

Last episode was a disappointment overall. It tried to tie everything together in too short a time (the last few minutes).

I think S&M Season II did it a lot better. Everything is tied together so neatly in the last episode (for instance, I laughed when they used the sleigh to get out of the pit of Hell, the scene was the same as in Ep.1, it was pure genius). I don't know, I think TOMI was great, but TTG really did it better with S&M.

[Juicius Maximus]

It tried to tie everything together in too short a time (the last few minutes).

Hmm, reminds me of the last ten minutes of Revenge of the Sith. You know, where Georgie was all like, "Oh shit, that's right! These are prequels to those movies I made twenty five years ago! Okay, let's see...AMIDALA: 'You're Luke, you're Leia, and I'm dead.' Yoda, you're all bummed about losing the war, so you're going into swampy exile, where your age will suddenly catch up to you and you'll never again put your outrageously dextrous lightsaber skills on display. Anakin, you've been mortally wounded, thus the creepy helmet that will make you sound like a distinguished black man for the rest of your life, and the switch-and-light covered chest panel that presumably regulates your midichlorians or something. Okay, so far, so good. Oh shit, the empire! Cue the 70's era spaceship and costume designs that are woefully incongruous with the glossy aesthetic I've created in my last three films, and I think we're done!

[onlyamonkey]

The finale was ok, but yeah, there were plotholes. Not as many plotholes as Bloody Eugene makes it out to be (you're lagging severly- most people can answer a few of your questions at least).

[MusicallyInspired]

An ending is an unplayable epilogue. Not a playable boss battle. Heck no.

And I never said I didn't "get" anything about the ending. It just wasn't long or satisfying enough. That said, I enjoyed it and am not disappointed with the season overall.

[dahoughtonuk]

For me RotPG undid everything that T&E did.

T&E suggested that Elaine loved Guybrush. Guybrush wasn't at LeChuck's level of obsession with Elaine. And LeChuck was dangerous, amd Elaine hated him with a passion.

In RotPG, about all that remained was LeChuck is dangerous. Elaine's act of agreeing to become a demon bride seemed more calculated than desperate. Guybrush was at LeChuck's level of obsession, and suggested the only reason Elaine was with Guybrush rather than LeChuck was because Guybrush was easier to manipulate. Elaine's certainty at the end I really hated, rather than a subtle pleading and thankfulness which would have worked better.

While Morgan had her eye on the main chance she did seem until the ending to actually care for Guybrush. I can only think of one reason for that ending. It had to be tagged on to suggest The Voodoo Lady and Morgan were worse than Elaine. I'm not saying they're not but in the end both have been more or less honest with Guybrush. Elaine seems to track to the less honest most of the time.

In one of my earlier posts. I stated I didn't mind whether Guybrush ended up with Morgan, Elaine or neither as long as Guybrush won. To me he seemed to lose and lose badly. (And I leant to Elaine through the first three episodes - mostly because that's who Guybrush wanted. And the fourth I was so happy with)

[GaryCXJk]

Wait, so was Elaine's reaction really that subtle, or do some people just don't get it?

She doesn't just let herself willingly be a demon bride. If you really remember correctly, you would notice that the moment LeChuck mentions that regular mortals are unable to wield the cutlass the camera switches to Elaine, with a sort of surprised, shocked and a "holy crap, I have an idea" expression.

Seriously, it's no rocket science, and if even a socially inept person like me who normally can't figure out what others are feeling can figure that out, you should too. Read body language.

[PecanBlue]

Originally Posted by dahoughtonuk

For me RotPG undid everything that T&E did.

T&E suggested that Elaine loved Guybrush. etc. etc.

*sigh*

Originally Posted by MusicallyInspired

An ending is an unplayable epilogue. Not a playable boss battle. Heck no.

Then you and I are not seeing this game the same way, I'm afraid. Why would it matter if it's interactive or not? A final battle is still part of an ending.

[Diduz]

Originally Posted by GaryCXJk

She doesn't just let herself willingly be a demon bride. If you really remember correctly, you would notice that the moment LeChuck mentions that regular mortals are unable to wield the cutlass the camera switches to Elaine, with a sort of surprised, shocked and a "holy crap, I have an idea" expression.

Agreed. That's the only thing I had no problem with. It's clearly a brave "on-the-fly" decision, I really liked it. It's very welll explained in close-ups and Elaine's expressions. No problem in THAT scene. The problem is with her overall "I'll unmask the Voodoo Lady plan to Guybrush" plan, as I've already explained.

[Falanca]

I disagree with GaryCXJk. He says it like noone was able to get the emotional message. Well, I sure got it, everyone got it. It's not rocket science, but I'd like to get my message supplied with more emotionally consistent and realistic-for-a-human example. The plot had so much potential acquiring this, but they rather wanted to go with "Elaine is S-M-R-T!!!1", so... meh.

[PecanBlue]

Realism in Monkey Island? HA! HA! HA!

But anyway, "Elaine is smart" is kind of an obvious statement and it wasn't really THAT focused on in the game, just a little last-minute reminder that she's not to be underestimated by her audience. The ring had a better meaning behind it than that.

[Falanca]

Originally Posted by PecanBlue

Realism in Monkey Island? HA! HA! HA!

I tried to add the "-for-a-human" part to avoid such a reply but... What can you do, huh?

What I tried to say there was, although the story is set in an imaginary world with its own rules, the humans and their emotions should be reminiscent to how we are, in real, you know. By this we can form a strong empathy with the characters.

I really, couldn't form anything with Elaine in that matter. She was just... cold. It's not like the all game is like that, though, Morgan had her own dilemmas and doubts. But Elaine, well, weird to see how a newcomer can leave a bigger bomb than a reccurring (actually, a MAIN) character of the franchise.

Originally Posted by PecanBlue

But anyway, "Elaine is smart" is kind of an obvious statement and it wasn't really THAT focused on in the game, just a little last-minute reminder that she's not to be underestimated by her audience. The ring had a better meaning behind it than that.

I... like her more when she's kicking butt with her sword. Not when she makes so indirective plans.

[PecanBlue]

I'm sorry but I disagree with you. Chapter 5 insinuates she is anything but cold, and I still can't see where people are pulling the "gosh she is so CRUEL AND UNCARING" shtick from. I also saw plenty of human-like emotion too, so I don't really know where you're coming from here.

I'm not sure I understand why someone "making plans" makes them unlikeable. Her personality makes her seem like an orderly person, so I can see where it would make sense that she likes to plan ahead. It kind of seemed like homage to her independent behavior from Secret of Monkey Island too. Her improvisation with the cutlass is plenty understandable. Would it make any sense for Elaine to just sit back and watch Guybrush deal with all the trouble without her help? No.

There was plenty of sword fighting from her right there at the end too, so...

[TomPravetz]

It was a bit anticlimactic, wasn't it?

[Falanca]

Originally Posted by PecanBlue

I'm sorry but I disagree with you. Chapter 5 insinuates she is anything but cold, and I still can't see where people are pulling the "gosh she is so CRUEL AND UNCARING" shtick from. I also saw plenty of human-like emotion too, so I don't really know where you're coming from here.

I'm not sure I understand why someone "making plans" makes them unlikeable. Her personality makes her seem like an orderly person, so I can see where it would make sense that she likes to plan ahead. It kind of seemed like homage to her independent behavior from Secret of Monkey Island too. Her improvisation with the cutlass is plenty understandable. Would it make any sense for Elaine to just sit back and watch Guybrush deal with all the trouble without her help? No.

There was plenty of sword fighting from her right there at the end too, so...

To put it out shortly, her plan involves her being the eternal, brain-washed super-powerful wife of his husband's nemesis in the sight of his husband's ghost. Yet she made such a decision after making a slight voice of "hmm"... It wasn't that apparent what would happen next. After this point, everything she could have thought of only can be speculations. There are lots of possibilities, considering she doesn't know how being a ghost and tearing down the crossroads to save your significant other is. That kind of a plan could only be something usable in the worst case scenario, and Elaine DID use it in the worst case, but, with just a "hmm". That's just cold.

Again. There are plans, and there are desperate plans that you can't just "hmm" when you use them. I'm not against that kind of a plan she came up with, the situation itself was really desperate up to that point. I wanted to see some emotion, you know, a whisper of "sorry Guybrush". Also the ending sequence. I wanted to see a "glad you're back *sniff*", not a "oh, you're there finally, oh well". He. Cheated. The goddamn. DEATH. "I was expecting you" just doesn't work.

In all the episodes this is the one where Elaine herself (not her poxed self) gets the most screentime and chances of changing the plot, and this is where I didn't like her lines and doings the most, so her awesome fight with Morgan can't quite make it up.

Originally Posted by Tpravetz

It was a bit anticlimactic, wasn't it?

Yeah, some sorta I guess.

[PecanBlue]

^
I think you're looking a little too far into things. The "hmm" is a gentle nod toward the audience so you know Elaine has something up her sleeve, not really anything aimed toward anyone but her own thoughts. The game kind of makes it clear her plan involved trusting in Guybrush to bring her back, so you see what kind of powerful teamwork they've developed. (Though for some reason Guybrush can't see his own wife is acting until Morgan points it out??)

There is actually a lot of emotion from her, and I don't know how you're not catching it. What happened to the whole "I love you" line? There WAS an "I'm sorry" before the whole demon bride thing. Did episode 4's ending mean nothing? And did you catch her desperate tone when Guybrush fails to do something about LeChuck in the spirit world around three times? There's a whole lot of them during the fight scene in general.

Why she wasn't tearful in the ending is because for some reason the game tries to use this bizarro logic that Elaine just somehow knew he would come back and then being all confident about it. (Winslow too, apparently) I don't really get it either, but I just blame the writing for not really explaining it properly, not Elaine who's just the actress for it.

The one thing I will agree with you is that she gets little screen time in comparison to Morgan. For lots of reasons, it was annoying, but I'll spare you.

[LowMoralFiber]

I never cared too much for Elaine. She's always struck me as one of the less interesting characters in the entire franchise. In fact, I would say that one of the many things that Tales did well was make me like Elaine (albeit only for one episode. She was hysterical with the pox in "Trial and Execution.)

I didn't like the whole "It was all my plan!" aspect of the ending, because it seemed to suggest to me that she had actually planned on Guybrush dying (hence the giving him the ring) which is kind of messed up, it undermines all of Guybrush's hard work (she's off screen for most of the game then all of a sudden she's the one that made it possible for good to triumph in the end? I have no qualms with her kicking ghost pirate butt, but giving her credit for the whole season peeves me slightly.) Finally, it seemed like she wanted to cut the Voodoo Lady's string off of Guybrush, but really she's almost as manipulative...

[leandro_tami]

Originally Posted by Voodoomaster

...should have some doubt about it, not simply ending the game with himself asking "WHAT WAS THE PRONOUNCE OF ESPONJA"???

I found that ending quite funny because every time I heard "La Esponja Grande" it sounded a bit funny to me because I'm a native Spanish speaker. So I felt it as a joke directed to myself.