Trying for intelligent conversation? The Path

[Plunder_Bunny]

Hello all my Tell Tale forum friends, enemies, and people who otherwise don't care. I was hoping to have an analytical conversation about the Path, a game by Tale of Tales, which is a bizarre little game basically about Little Red Ridding Hood. If you haven't played it, you can buy and download it for 10 bucks on the Tale of Tales website. It is definitely worth a play.

To start off the conversation, I have a burning question to ask of you all:
Do you think the Grandmother is dead from the beginning of the game? (Yes this game is dark and goth)

[PecanBlue]

Ugh, my friend sent me this game as a gift and I played with another friend. And while we did have fun analyzing it and "wtf"ing at it and laughing at some bizarre parts, the actual gameplay is just maddening and awful to the point that makes you lose the emotional effect the "game" is supposed to be making you feel and instead just makes you annoyed and frustrated at it as a mechanical thing. It's not good to have a game break the fourth wall like that. Way too indie and pretentious. Yeah, it's great they want to make art through some games, I get it, but they forgot the actual show-it-through-gaming part. A lot of games that exist ARE art and show it well through the help of gameplay. That's like trying to use an easel, then splattering the paint on the walls and calling it easel art. What makes it worse is that the creator will take any of these sort of constructive criticisms as if gamers are sheep and we can't understand his work of art. NO. I'm sorry, but it's not worth the ten bucks. The fact that they actually charged for this type of "game" is what makes it so pretentious.

But anyway, enough ranting about the game, here is what I analyzed:

To me, the grandmother is not dead in the beginning but rather on the verge of dying. It seems as if the forest and path are some kind of metaphorical mindset. Like if she's trying to find her memories and creates several metaphorical and personified phases of her youth to find them. (the 6 girls) There are several memories in the forest as well as bad ones. (hence the wolves)

I'll stop it at that since you said that's where you want to start. As much as I dislike the game as a whole, I still thought what happened in it was interesting enough, so don't let that stop you from discussing it with me.

[JedExodus]

Only way to ensure intelligent conversation is to start talking to yourself my friend.

Never played the game, though reminds me of Alice from the concept

[Ashton]

Originally Posted by JedExodus

Never played the game, though reminds me of Alice from the concept

I agree.

I'll have to look into it, I'm known to brave rediculous controls for the sake of a good plot.

[PecanBlue]

I think Alice might have been a great inspiration for it, as they have mentioned it several times and even interviewed McGee about psychological horror games during development of the game.

Anyway, the controls aren't actually so bad since it's such a simple gameplay mechanic. You don't need to fight any monsters or anything, just explore areas and interact with a few things. Of course, with the exception of the running which is annoying as hell. You see, every time you try to run, the camera goes upwards so you can't see what's ahead of you and the screen blackens after a while with some of those cheesy scribbles on the screen and some annoying horror game sound effects. Sure it might be scary/confusing the first time when you don't realize what's happening in the forest but it gets on your nerves quickly, especially when you realize how repetitive the gameplay aspect is and when you've come to an understanding of what is happening around you in that you must do the same thing with each of the six girls. When I was on the second girl I've already realized what was happening and was getting increasingly frustrated that the game wanted to be annoying when I just wanted to explore more efficently by running.

There are a lot more annoying things than the controls, though. There is that ridiculous "walk of shame" at some point in the game where the girl is walking incredibly slowly to grandma's house and it takes about two minutes to get there with nothing happening at all. And of course this must happen with EACH GIRL. >:|

There's also the stupid flower collecting, which was put there mostly to mock the gamer who decides to collect them all. Because if you go through the tedious process of finding them all, NOTHING HAPPENS. It's been confirmed this was done to mock players who feel the need to collect everything within a game. Yes, god forbid I want to appreciate the way a game was made by trying to experience everything it has to offer, but thank you for mocking me for trying, game!

Some girls also have some memories to collect which are only found in a certain area, but sometimes that area is only randomized to appear for a certain girl, and sometimes it's randomized to not appear at all no matter how many times you load the specific girl who is the only one who can get that memory unless you "beat" or start the file over, and even then you have to pray the randomization system likes you.

I could go on and on, but the icing on the cake is how easily the creator dismisses criticisms of these unnecessary mechanics, sometimes creating these bizarro "artistic" reasons for why they were put in there. To quote someone on Steam: "What would you say if the game kept crashing to the desktop? 'That's to make you feel like the game is eluding you, and doesn't want you to play it! You must keep pursuing it!'" Basically, it's just a bunch of pretentious BS.

[ShaggE]

^ Sounds like one of those games to watch a playthrough of on Youtube. That way you get the gist, with the added bonuses of fast-forwarding through the tedium and not feeding the creator's ridiculous ego.

[PecanBlue]

Yeah, that's the thing one of my friends did. She just watched the endings of each girl on youtube. Though you don't get the same feeling of being lost and confused by doing that, but I'd say it's not worth it to pay ten dollars just to feel it for a little moment before you get frustrated over and over again after that.

[The Spoony Hou]

I remember this game was called underage rape simulator, or something. I've never played though.

[PecanBlue]

Nah, the whole belief that what's happening to all the girls is that they're getting raped doesn't hold much water. There's no indication that could have happened except for only one of the girls; there's a bigger picture involved. The game is supposedly about growing up, so there's a lot of different things that happen to each girl.

[Juicius Maximus]

I was going to make a joke about how this thread discouraged me from wanting to try this game until I got to The Spoony Hou's post, but then I thought better of it.

[PecanBlue]

Do you mean you are now encouraged to play this game from that post? (D:) Or do you mean you don't want to make a joke anymore due to insensitivity?

If it's the latter, you really shouldn't worry about it, since even if only one instance of the game has sexual implications, whether it's *that* kind of implication or not is only up to your interpretation. (I really can't talk about it much without spoiling it and I'm sure there's people who still want to try the game :|)

[Juicius Maximus]

Originally Posted by PecanBlue

Do you mean you are now encouraged to play this game from that post? (D Or do you mean you don't want to make a joke anymore due to insensitivity?

Both. The joke was that that post made me want to play the game. But the real joke was that I decided said joke was inappropriate...and then posted it anyway. Humor is so much funnier when you explain it. Not that it was very funny to begin with.

[The Spoony Hou]

Originally Posted by Juicius Maximus

Both. The joke was that that post made me want to play the game.

I was actually thinking of making the same joke myself, but this is a family-friendly forum .

[Plunder_Bunny]

Wow! You guys had fun while I was away!

First off, PecanBlue, excellent points on the game play mechanics. As far as play goes, everything that you said is true. I really hated the running camera issue, and those randomized map objects issue. I can't tell you how annoyed I was when I was looking for that damn playground with some of the other girls! As far as being a game, it does not have great gameplay, but I think that it is the start of something that could be better. It just kinda makes me want to figure out how I could make a better game using the same themes... I love doing that.

The reason that I bought and played the path was not for the gameplay. My sister did her MFA Dissertation on the many different retellings of Little Red Ridding Hood, and I had to suffer through much of her research (don't watch The Company of Wolves unless you plan to fast forward... a lot!) so I in turn became interested in how Red is portrayed in games. I give Tale of Tales full credit for doing their research. Not a whole lot of people know the original tale, The Tale of the Grandmother, and I respect there desire to make the concept artistic. From a literary stand point, The Path was a great success in leaving the game open for interpretation. Whether someone wants to believe it is a rape allegory as the original tale is meant to be interpreted, a story about losing innocence as we age, or my pet theory, the little girl in white is the Wolf trying to keep the girls on her path to avoid being tempted by the girls.

I still think that Grandma is dead throughout the entire game...

[PecanBlue]

Well, why do you think so? How does that explain her eyes opening in each ending sequence that isn't a wolf ending? Who are the girls and why do they repeatedly go to take bread and wine to a supposedly dead grandmother? Also, take a look at her room, it always changes for each girl in any ending, even the failure ones. (the stuffed wolf is always in a different place and there's a picture above her bed that is context sensitive to the girl you are controlling) I think these are all questions to be pondered.

The girl in white is also one of the bigger mysteries, I prefer to actually think of her as the woodsman of the story, but she seems to represent something more. One of the wolves seems to take her form, though since the girl in white can be seen around the same time, I don't think they're the same person.

EDIT: Also, I still don't get how anyone can come to the conclusion of rape, at least for EVERY GIRL. The original story isn't exactly about the loss of innocence through sexual means entirely, there's more to it. I think there's also more to it to this story, since it is a more modern version of the tale, and there's lots of things young women worry about in their youth other than sex. Take a look at what Robin goes through, for example, with all the headstones and death themes or what Scarlet goes through. I also thought that some girls were a little easier to interpret than others (I think Rose's fate is what baffles me the most; I still don't fully get it to this day. Maybe I just can't find a way to relate a personal experience to her.) but Ruby's wolf encounter is probably the most blatant and easiest to understand and kind of helps you to get what is happening overall, thus being able to interpret the other girls' fates better.

[Plunder_Bunny]

Ganny blinks? Maybe it's because my computer is crappy and I had to make the graphics lower quality, but I never saw her blink. Part of the reason I think that Granny might be dead is because most versions on Little Red Ridding Hood, grandma get's eaten by the wolf. However, if Granny blinks, then I admit that I am wrong about that. But she never moves... was that Tale of Tales being lazy? I would think when the girls come in for the "failure" endings she would at least turn her head in some sort of greeting.

Ah, my little pet theory, the girl in white. First off, you mentioned that the stuffed wolf in Grandma's room is white, and the little girl is also wearing white. While white is symbolic of innocence, it also connects the girl with the wolf. Due to the odd nature of the little girl in white, if she is the wolf, who is to say that she can't fabricate other people? After all, the woods are pretty messed up as it is... I don't know about you, but I don't often find my living room furniture strewn around the forest. And since the "endings" for each girl are so metaphorical, it isn't too far a stretch the the little girl can create visions.

Once the girls find the "Wolf", the girl in white no longer tries to take them back to the path. It could be saying, "I tried to tell you to be a good girl, but hey, if you don't want to listen, here is your punishment."

I think Ginger's "wolf" proves my point the most. Ginger is so far into her imaginary world, that the girl in white doesn't have to pretend to be innocent anymore, which is why she is in red. This is the one girl that she doesn't have to hide who she is, and I think that they are supposed to be the same age.

What really made me think the girl in white is the wolf is the prologue and the epilogue. I don't know if you downloaded the prologue. Basically, it is the girl in white running around the forest, and instead of the usual land marks, the places are reduced to ash and smoke. *spoiler!* In the Epilogue, it is raining, as it always is as the red girls finally make their way to Grandma's house after encountering the wolf. She comes into grandma's house and sits next the bed in a pouncing position. After it fades, the girl in white is standing in the starting room with blood smeared on her dress. She appears that way almost as if to say "fooled you!"

On that note, did you notice that as the girls get older, the wolf a) becomes more humanoid and b) get's older? Also, have you ever read the original story? It's called Tale of the Grandmother if you are not familiar with it.

It's fun debating with you!

[PecanBlue]

(I'm too lazy to spoiler mark everything and it will get in the way of this discussion so people who want to play the game DON'T READ AHEAD FOR THERE ARE SPOILERS)

Grandmother doesn't really blink, but she shoots her eyes open in every ending. (with the exception of the wolf endings of course, where she is missing entirely) You can check it out on youtube if you like. This is why I think she's just "dying" rather than already dead, there's pills beside her bed, and there's an object to collect in the forest that triggers a memory of pills for some reason. I forget which it is, but I know it's there.

I don't really think the girl in white is a wolf herself, but understanding her goes a long way to understanding the whole game, (as well as understanding Ginger's wolf) which I think is impossible to do. I see each red girl as a different metaphorical phase of youth (naivete, innocence, dependency, juvenility, rebellion, sexual inexperience, passiveness, possibly femininity or gender conformity etc.) that one by one are killed by a certain experience in life. (which each wolf represents) Because of this, I think it's significant that you are able to control the girl in white and get to grandmother's house without any trouble at all, but only when all girls are dead. It almost seems as if the girl in white can represent neutrality, or acceptance or something similar to that, which is a very important part of full maturity. You can go anywhere you want in the forest, but there is no longer any temptation for the bad, and you know exactly where the path is.

The creator himself has mentioned that he sees the girl in white in the end as if she has killed the wolf and cut the girls out of its stomach, hence the blood-stained dress and why the girls gradually come back into the room safely. This is why I see the girl in white as the woodsman. You can even see it as the grandmother being the wolf by the end, because the wolf has already taken care of the red girls and posed as the grandmother, waiting for the last girl to arrive, like in the original story. It's like if grandmother is girl in white's wolf, (IE. she herself is her own wolf) but by that point in time, girl in white knows just what to do. The girls coming back into the room is kind of like they're being allowed to start over, like "you can't get rid of them, they'll always be there in life, but do what you must with them and let them go as they please."

I don't really see the stuffed wolf's color as being significant to the girl in white. After all, there are other white things to be pondered about in the game. Like how each red girl's item in the start room is white for some reason.

And yeah, I did read the original story.

I'll talk about the girl in white more later. She has a lot to be talked about, but I gotta go to a birthday party soon, so it'll take a while if I keep going!

[Plunder_Bunny]

Well PecanBlue, it looks like it this discussion is just you and me.

Ah, Ginger's wolf. This is my initial reaction to Ginger's ending, barring my theory of the girl in white. I didn't come up with that theory until I finished the game. Ginger's "sin" if you will is that she doesn't want to grow up and take responsibility. She just wants to play and be mischievous and fight her coming of age. That is why her wolf is in a field of flowers with mother nature. The girl in red could symbolize her period coming which signifies the end of childhood, and the idea devastates her. That is what I think any way...

Now a few things about the other girls baffle me, which is mostly what other people have said. One theory people have is that Rose tried or actually drown herself in the bath tub. I didn't think of Rose as suicidal. I can understand that she has a fascination with water, and perhaps she may have almost or actually drowned, but as far as I could tell, only Ruby was suicidal.

Another theory out there is for Cameron. People seem to believe that she was raped by the woodsman, or married to him and became disillusioned... I thought that she was just a party animal and it got her into trouble. Besides, isn't she awfully young to be married?

And then there is Scarlet. Ok, I agree that she may have given up her passion for music to take care of her sister, but after she encounters the wolf, a red curtain comes down. I am much more willing to believe that she had a bad experience with a music instructor in one way or another which caused her to think of Music as a forbidden fruit. This is of course all analysis before they take an incredibly LONG time walking to Grandma's in the rain.

I suppose that leads us back to the girl in white. I guess I can buy the woodcutter theory, but the game seems to sinister for that... it also could be that never really like that the Brothers Grimm added him so that a "man" could save poor helpless Red. The Tale of Tales site made such a big deal out of showing you the two oldest versions of Red Riding Hood, I don't really feel that the Grimm's version plays that much into it. This girl is definitely a mystery.

[wefeelgroove]

Originally Posted by PecanBlue

There's also the stupid flower collecting, which was put there mostly to mock the gamer who decides to collect them all. Because if you go through the tedious process of finding them all, NOTHING HAPPENS. It's been confirmed this was done to mock players who feel the need to collect everything within a game. Yes, god forbid I want to appreciate the way a game was made by trying to experience everything it has to offer, but thank you for mocking me for trying, game!

What, really? You know, I think I just lost all interest in ever playing this. There's a big difference between "artistic" and "snobby".

[Plunder_Bunny]

Originally Posted by wefeelgroove

What, really? You know, I think I just lost all interest in ever playing this. There's a big difference between "artistic" and "snobby".

And you my friend have pinpointed the problem with most art schools. They fail to see the difference between the two.