Tales of Monkey Island v. Original 4 [Inevitable Spoilers]

[Falanca]

Originally Posted by Jake

I tried to sneak at least a tiny bit of that into chapter 5, but yeah.

Umm, like when Morgan said "I already beat two posers and a decent fighter" in the time interval we solved other puzzles in different places after the Insult/Compliment Swordfight puzzles, even though there is seemingly no other dead person walking around like Guybrush?

[gordy]

Originally Posted by monkey_05_06

Wait so you mean you went inside the Keelhauler Gazette? And Well, Blow Me Down Glassworks? Would you mind enlightening us as to how you got inside these locations?

It's not about whether or not you can get inside, it's about adding that extra colour to the environment by having a few buildings, streets and locations that are present while not being part of the game. It adds an immersive quality and pulls you into the MI world. The Keelhauler and Glassworks were there because they played a part in Guybrush's adventure. There was nothing there that wasn't.

[RockNRoll]

i'm putting TMI dead last. or at the very most somewhere in EMI's ballpark.

it did nothing to bring the series "home" in my opinion. if anything it was even more "out there" than EMI, it was definitely less immersive than any of them. all the worlds were totally empty, just basically a series of rooms with forced items and uninspired puzzles everywhere. the resolution was great. the camera movement was great. there was emotion and storytelling involved, all good things. the game and the "world" and the effort to make it challenging and intelligent and inspired just wasn't there at all.

MI2
MI1
CMI
EMI
TMI

[ComputerMonkey]

1. Tie: CMI and MI2. If not for the drop in quality of CMI's last act, it would be on top. MI2 is still the most consistently great.

3. TOMI. Episode 3 matched the best of Monkey Island and episode 4 came close. But the other episodes weren't as good (apart from DeSinge's Lab and the Human Lechuck puzzles).

4. MI1. A good start to the series, but a little uneven.

5. EFMI. Still a good game, just not great. Only thing better here than in TOMI is the music.

[FitzoliverJ]

Originally Posted by PariahKing

If I wanted to give you a challenge, I could hand you an a N64 and a copy of Goldeneye. "Here, kill all the bad people with your fists instead of guns." Just because something is challenging doesn't make it fun or good.

What? Karate chopping everybody's the best fun in this game!

[Jake]

Originally Posted by Falanca

Umm, like when Morgan said "I already beat two posers and a decent fighter" in the time interval we solved other puzzles in different places after the Insult/Compliment Swordfight puzzles, even though there is seemingly no other dead person walking around like Guybrush?

No the dialog is Mark, with Sean and Mike. I love that stuff, but have next to nothing to do with it.

[Frogacuda]

Originally Posted by RockNRoll

just basically a series of rooms with forced items and uninspired puzzles everywhere.

If you look at it side by side with the old games, the areas are just as detailed, and I actually think the puzzles were impressively varied and clever. They were, however, very, very easy. Which unfortunately is a trend in the industry right now, and not just for adventure games. I blame the audience for this as much as Telltale for giving in to it.

[LowMoralFiber]

1. Curse-Tales (I'm rather ambivalent about which one is better. I don't see myself playing Tales as often as I play Curse, but it made me laugh the most out of all of them...)
2. Secret of Monkey Island
3. LeChuck's Revenge
4. Escape from Monkey Island

[ObiWanThreepwood]

1. TOMI + COMI (I just can't decide between these two... I'll give it a year, play though them all again, the decide.)

2. LCR (Massive game, real epic. Would tie for first with the other two, but, unlike most I wasn't a huge fan of the ending.)

3. SOMI

4. EFMI (Still loved this one, but there just aren't as many moments or characters that stand out as incredible, unlike the others)

[SHODANFreeman]

Originally Posted by Jake

No the dialog is Mark, with Sean and Mike. I love that stuff, but have next to nothing to do with it.

I thought you had everything to do with everything. I'm disappointed in the amount of credit you're willing to take, Jake.

[RockNRoll]

Originally Posted by Frogacuda

If you look at it side by side with the old games, the areas are just as detailed, and I actually think the puzzles were impressively varied and clever.

i don't agree

re: areas. the first 3 games, especially 2 & 3 had far more lush detail. you'd never just have plain textures on things. there were tons of nuances in every scene, hundreds of things to look at closely. there were cracks and stains on walls, rotting wood, things really looked worn and aged and just rich. you could see large distances, you felt like you were in a world.

just look at this random scene for instance


you can't tell me TMI had that kind of detail. that feels like you're in a real town that is BIG and has a life of its own. you can see great expansive views, horizons, distant buildings etc and every inch is different than the next. not just two or three tight screens with plain, bright, plastic textures.

to continue to the next point, the puzzles, it ties in with the areas. in the old ones, items seemed to be in their natural place for the most part. in TMI, it seemed like the creators almost thought of random items and puzzle ideas first, and then just dropped them into locations where made no larger sense. like "he needs to melt a pyrite parrot to finish this puzzle. ok let's just drop a BBQ in middle of the jungle." or "guybrush needs to earn the trust of the thief. ok let's just drop a treasure chest in the middle of the jungle with a magic belt buckle that will magically earn his trust." that's just lazy puzzle design.

more clever, natural puzzles would have something like a fire or BBQ in a natural setting, and a more involved clever way to earn trust, not just a magic trinket that makes no sense with no reason for just sitting there for you. that way it just doesn't stick out like a sore thumb that "THIS IS HERE FOR A PUZZLE YOU'LL DO SOON." idk, it's hard to explain.

[guitarsareboring]

This is a difficult one really. I thoroughly enjoyed Tales and I'm excited about the obviously open ending but for me it doesn't quite compare to the power three. The story and humour were perfect, the art beautiful and the voice acting fantastic but much of the time the puzzles were a little too simple (especially ep5) and I didn't like Elaine much.

RockNRoll, I agree with everything you said, especially regarding the placement of the puzzles.

[SurplusGamer]

Coming from someone who played the games in order at about the time they were released, I'd put them about here:

1) MI2 - I found this to be the funniest and creepiest game in the series simultaneously, with an atmosphere to it that has yet not been matched.
2) CMI - I'm so glad that this game was made at a time when LucasArts were still willing to put plenty of resources into making adventure games, and it really was proof that a classic Monkey Island could be made without Ron Gilbert at the helm.
3) Tales of Monkey Island - While I don't find it quite as funny as the above episodes, by the time I finished this series I knew that TTG had managed to create a thoroughly solid Monkey Island game with several standout moments. I think there will be more, and I expect they will be better still.
4) SMI - I like the first Monkey Island game a lot, but to me it has always been MI2 where the series really matured. The first game is a fine start and was spectacularly exciting in its time, but in comparison to what comes after it feels more like a blueprint for greatness to come.
5) Escape from Monkey Island - It's not that it's a bad game, it's just not what I expect from a Monkey Island game. The humour largely fell flat for me, the story veered rapidly off a cliff and it looked like it was produced on the cheap compared to Grim Fandango which used the same engine. I think denying that it exists like some people like to do is just silly, but it remains the only MI game that I can genuinely say disappointed me.

[Hassat Hunter]

CMI- Looks great, plays great, awesome humour.
LCR- Horrible horrible ending. Aside from that it was pretty good. Although I pretty much had to play it with a walkthrough next to me. That I was 11 or so and didn't knew english well probably didn't help much either .
TOMI- Really catches the MI feel. Hats of to TTG.
SOMI- Although probably rushing through it with a walkthrough because the only time I had to play it was on school during classes (don't ask) was a bad idea.
EMI- Didn't happen... Only one I didn't finish either. Just gave up at Monkey Combat.

[Gryffalio]

My turn!

CMI - was at least 4 star on everything
MI2 - the story was great and the puzzles challenging
MI1 - the original, and a very charming story, especially benefits from the Special Edition
ToMI - a nice try, and I think a second season would be much better as the formula is now in place
EMI - some nice ideas, but it failed, unfortunately.

[shovell]

1 - CMI
2 - MI2
3 - ToMI
4 - SMI
5 - EfMI

Did I snap with anyone?

I find these thread so fascinating, everyone seems to delve so deep into these things, and I read it and think "Yeah that's soo so true" but I'm not clever enough to think of them... or am so blinded by love for MI that I can't see them

[Landhow]

Originally Posted by RockNRoll

lots of things

Spot on! Couldnt have said it better.

[tredlow]

Tales definitely has the most advanced graphics (duh), and I'd be lying if I say that it's not a big deal to me. Also, I love how the stakes get higher in Tales at the end than MI's ever been (that was the first time I ever believed that Guybrush can't win). It's got my favorite Guybrush design, too.

Though puzzle-wise, I'd say MI2's my favorite.

[Avistew]

1) CMI: liked the puzzles, liked the graphics, liked the controls, liked the voices, music... I don't think I can name anything I didn't like about CMI.
2) LCR: lots of funny bits, nice puzzles.
3) SMI: really nice, set the precedent, but I think the sequels improved on it.
4) TMI: better than "it-which-must-not-be-named" (Okay, okay, I mean EMI) but I didn't really like it that much. I didn't like the controls, I wasn't crazy about the graphics. The voices and jokes were great, but I didn't like the puzzle as much and the story seems to have holes in it compared to the other ones. I'm guessing it's because they wanted to call for a sequel?

EMI is out of the list, because I just like to pretend it didn't exist. I played all of it, even though the controls were horrible (the arrows made stuff move by 2, so if I wanted to talk to someone, I needed to press up and down until it went around and fell on the right option. And that only worked when the number of options was odd).
I didn't like the graphics, I didn't like the controls, I wasn't crazy about the puzzles and the story was... ugh.
I don't even mention it exists when I introduce people to the series. It's not like you need to play it to follow anyways.