Telltale Games

PecanBlue · 01/06/2010, 08:06 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LowMoralFiber

I didn't like the whole "It was all my plan!" aspect of the ending, because it seemed to suggest to me that she had actually planned on Guybrush dying

No. Otherwise, the ending of the 4th episode wouldn't make any sense at all. She never even said "everything that happened was part of a plan!" She just suggested a few things were planned, like getting captured in the beginning, and turning into a demon. The ring has been suggested to be gut instinct and not really part of some careful plotting.

a3HeadedMonkey · 01/06/2010, 10:36 pm

I've tried to stay away from these forums lately because I've been busy & just didn't have the time to play the last episode. I found the time to finish the last episode now & I have to say, I'm pretty disappointed how it all ended.

Chapters 1-3 were excellent & I was really excited & happy about how the series was playing out. But it all started to fall apart for me from chapter 4 onwards. I was looking forward to the night time episode of chapter 4 a lot. I was hoping to get that lonely, night time ambience from the episode that I got from Melee Island when I first played MI1. But that didn't happen. Perhaps because in MI1 it starts off at night & you spend a lot of time there & then you are rewarded with the sun scorched Journey & Under Monkey Island once you leave Melee. But a lot of it was to do with the illogical & annoying puzzles in Ch4 & what I thought was a rather boring story. Ch4 was awful for me. Really let me down & I didn't like it at all.

Sorry.

That's enough about Ch4, I didn't mean to say that much about it, but I wanted to give my opinion on the end of the season as well as the last chapter.

The final chapter also had some illogical puzzles & seemed forced at times, but I did really enjoy it. The parts where you moved inbetween the rips & had to be ghost Guybrush or zombie Guybrush, depending on what you needed to accomplish, puzzle wise, were excellent. The final battle on LeChucks ship was epic as well & was an excellent nod to the old games in how the final puzzles played out. Then came the end... Massively disappointed I'm afraid. The good feeling I had about the chapter were completely undone in just a few seconds with that ending. It seemed rushed & I think it's apt that some have mentioned Lost. Because it felt just like that. Like even TT didn't know how it was going to end & they were making it up as they went, then they tried to wrap it all up at the end in an explanation that was the best they could manage.

To summarise, my final feelings on the series have been somewhat of disappointment. Mainly due to my dislike of Ch4, the ending of Ch5, Elaine's poor characterisation throughout (she went backwards & forwards like a yo-yo & I just couldn't get a grip on her character) & how buggy the entire series was (possibly due to it being episodic). I'm undecided whether I'd like to see a second season at this point.

PS. Does anyone know who the writers were for each episode? I'd be interested to know who wrote my favourite chapters & who wrote the ones I wasn't too keen on.

EDIT: I've just re-read my post & it comes across as a little ungrateful to TTG. I want to point out (to TT mainly & everyone involved in the game) that I am grateful they resurrected the MI series & I appreciate all the hard work they've put in throughout the season. Despite my gripes & feelings towards the end, a lot of the puzzles have been some of the best & cleverest the MI series have ever seen. For an episodic, 3D, keyboard controlled, MI game, you did a great job. It just wasn't perfect & that's just not good enough for a crazed, frothing at the mouth, MI fan like me!

Ashton · 01/07/2010, 08:02 am

Here's something none of you seem to have taken into acount...

The games all have a very central concept of VooDoo. In VooDoo, everything is predetermined, you cannot easily change your fate or hte fate of others. It is one of the strongest beliefs in voodoo - that hte spirits cocntrol everyone' destany.

Also, did nobody consider elane's "I always had a plan" just a smartalec comment to save face? a much more serios version of when a person screws up and then say "uhhh.... I um.... I meant for that to happen! yeah... heh...."

PecanBlue · 01/07/2010, 08:29 am

But it wasn't "I always HAD a plan" it's "I always have a plan." Meaning she always has a plan in bad situations not that she was planning everything from the start.

doggans · 01/07/2010, 08:39 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by LowMoralFiber

she's off screen for most of the game then all of a sudden she's the one that made it possible for good to triumph in the end?

Remember "Secret of Monkey Island"? Almost everything Guybrush does in that game amounts to nothing. She saved herself and provided her own root beer. The only thing Guybrush contributes is killing LeChuck with a different root beer bottle he finds, and that's only AFTER he ruins Elaine's plan.

The Elaine character was originally playing a different, off-screen version of the same adventure game that Guybrush was, and she was better at it. This felt like a throwback to that.

Diduz · 01/07/2010, 12:33 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PecanBlue

But it wasn't "I always HAD a plan" it's "I always have a plan." Meaning she always has a plan in bad situations not that she was planning everything from the start.

She DOES tell she's planned everything from the start. Remember the line I quoted some posts ago ("I LET you capture me and I PLAYED ALONG with your stupid nice guy act because I thought it would get Guybrush to realize that the Voodoo Lady-")? The "I always have a plan" line isn't the one which made me cringe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by doggans

The Elaine character was originally playing a different, off-screen version of the same adventure game that Guybrush was, and she was better at it. This felt like a throwback to that.

It did not feel like that to me! True, in MI1 she had been playing the same adventure Guybrush was, but she didn't even think that Guybrush was trying to save her. She was helping herself. On the contrary, in ToMI Elaine and Guybrush are in the same adventure TOGETHER, so there's no reason for her not to share with Guy importants clues.
Or... if there's a reason... there's no reason we shouldn't know this reason!

PecanBlue · 01/07/2010, 12:43 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diduz

She DOES tell she's planned everything from the start. Remember the line I quoted some posts ago ("I LET you capture me and I PLAYED ALONG with your stupid nice guy act because I thought it would get Guybrush to realize that the Voodoo Lady-")?

That doesn't exactly mean everything that happened with the crossroads was part of a grand plan, she just says she was playing along at the beginning pre-pox. And we find out later that she was charmed during the whole nice guy ordeal anyway, so there was no real way she was playing along consciously.

coolsome · 01/07/2010, 01:44 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PecanBlue

That doesn't exactly mean everything that happened with the crossroads was part of a grand plan, she just says she was playing along at the beginning pre-pox. And we find out later that she was charmed during the whole nice guy ordeal anyway, so there was no real way she was playing along consciously.

she could be lieing just to make LeChuck think he didnt trick her just to keep her pride

PecanBlue · 01/07/2010, 02:40 pm

Yes, I also mentioned that a few pages back as one of the possibilities. Lots of mysteries in this game anyway.

SHODANFreeman · 01/07/2010, 03:06 pm

This whole thread feels as ridiculous as this.

PecanBlue · 01/07/2010, 03:07 pm

^
Oh no! Not completely valid goofs!

pluizig · 01/08/2010, 12:52 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by PecanBlue

That doesn't exactly mean everything that happened with the crossroads was part of a grand plan, she just says she was playing along at the beginning pre-pox.

OK. Let's just, for the sake of argument, disregard the whole crossroads issue and discuss Elaine's playing along pre-pox.

Why, exactly? In her own words, it was to 'get Guybrush to realise that the Voodoo Lady-' Yet never ever does she mention this to Guybrush. If they had spoken about this before, and Guybrush did not believe it (like mentioned, I believe in the topic ~~conjecturing~~ 'explaining' the plot), I would at least expect some reference to this in the script. (Elaine: 'NOW do you believe me about the Voodoo Lady?' Somewhere during the finale. That's all it would've taken.)

But instead, Guybrush mentions the VL the first time he's on LeChuck's ship, and Elaine is shocked and bewildered at him working together with her. Guybrush on the other hand, doesn't have any idea in the slightest what he did wrong. The first (going off his reaction) and only time he -and the player- heard about the Voodoo Lady manipulating him was when LeChuck waved around a diary in court. A diary nobody bothered to read -at least not when Guybrush, and again, the player was around. Considering LeChuck (the one bringing the Voodoo Lady's motives to the attention) STABBED HIM TO DEATH afterwards, this 'evidence' is weak at best.

Yet it is all evidence Guybrush had up to that point. Now keeping this information in mind, look back at Elaine's dialogue. Doesn't this implicate very heavily that she never even bothered to talk to Guybrush about the Voodoo Lady's motives at all? That she went for a risky, complicated 'show' without even trying the 'tell' option of persuading him? And if that is true, doesn't that make her a... not very nice person?

PecanBlue · 01/08/2010, 04:13 am

Considering she doesn't even even finish her sentence, nor do we really know what even happened before all this, it's hard to come to any conclusion like that. I don't think making mistakes makes someone a bad person either.

nivekious · 01/16/2010, 05:50 pm

I think it really comes down to the fact that Elaine has always been a bit of a (justified) know-it-all. In MI1 she frees herself and makes voodoo rootbear without the canabals' help, even though they were the only ones who knew how to make it. In MI2 she goes right to the island where Big Whoop was buried without have ever scene more than one piece of the map, and without having that piece anymore. She has always known things that she has no logical reason for knowing, and even if she didn't know something, she would want to make it seem like she did. Why else would she bring up the completely irrelevant pronounciation of "esponja" at the end? She likes that intellectual superiority. She's the kind of person who will take credit for anything she can take credit for, even when she wasn't responsible. This should be clear from the fact that she took credit for killing LeChuck after MI1.

ezzetabi · 01/17/2010, 06:04 am

Is explained how Elaine know how to return from the crossroad in human form? It is really strange considering that even the Voodoo lady did not know!

He might have talked with LeChuck since he escaped from the crossoroads many times (5?), but the fact that the power of true love works so well should be unknown even for him, or not?

Chyron8472 · 01/17/2010, 08:39 am

Has anyone considered that Elaine might have said she had a plan when she really didn't have much of one, but was just trying to claim a bit of credit for things working out in the end? (Kind of like Ron Gilbert saying that he wanted to make MI3 but never did, and things worked out for the MI series anyway.)

And I thought TMI was one of the best MI games, Chapter 5 being an exciting and entertaining conclusion to the season. I, for one, am willing to overlook a few questions created by the plot so long as the overall experience was fun and entertaining. In fact, there are a number of extremely popular movies that have been made that, though they have large plothole questions staring you in the face, are still fun and exciting to watch.

As far as Ron Gilbert is concerned, props to the man who created Monkey Island but I believe that though he claims to have had an MI3 game in mind, he never even started creating it. Not to mention that the end of MI2 was full of the weirdness factor that would befit Sam & Max. I personally think that he was just saying that he was planning on making an MI3 himself, just to give himself a bit of props, though the end of MI2 is bizarre and random enough to suggest he never even considered it. Besides, I love Curse. For ages, it was my favorite game (though TMI gives it a run for it's money.)

ezzetabi · 01/17/2010, 09:12 am

It is an habit I noticed too, but I completely disagree with.

It seems people take something that disliked and says `Since I disliked _that_ so everything is bad.'

I do not know the OP was thinking in this way I prefer saying: `without forgetting the pleasure we had playing, enjoying the story, do you think is would be even better if...?' or `I loved the series, but I _that_ does not make any sense!'

PecanBlue · 01/17/2010, 05:57 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by nivekious

This should be clear from the fact that she took credit for killing LeChuck after MI1.

Wat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezzetabi

It seems people take something that disliked and says `Since I disliked _that_ so everything is bad.'

I do not know the OP was thinking in this way I prefer saying: `without forgetting the pleasure we had playing, enjoying the story, do you think is would be even better if...?' or `I loved the series, but I _that_ does not make any sense!'

Yes, and I think there were a lot of other mysteries and plot inconsistencies besides what Elaine was thinking about at the beginning. I don't really know why everyone chooses to focus on that and that alone.

LowMoralFiber · 01/17/2010, 06:00 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PecanBlue

Wat.

In MI2, it's mentioned that she took credit for blowing up LeChuck somewhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PecanBlue

Yes, and I think there were a lot of other mysteries and plot inconsistencies besides what Elaine was thinking about at the beginning. I don't really know why everyone chooses to focus on that and that alone.

My guess is because it's basically the last thing we see of Guybrush and Elaine in Tales, and since it left people cold as far as endings go, that's why it gets beaten on so much? I was more disappointed with how brief the ending scene was then just Elaine.

PecanBlue · 01/17/2010, 06:10 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LowMoralFiber

In MI2, it's mentioned that she took credit for blowing up LeChuck somewhere.

I don't remember this at all, somehow. I just remember Voodoo Lady taking credit.

01/06/2010, 10:36 pm	#82
a3HeadedMonkey Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Under Monkey Island Posts: 258	I've tried to stay away from these forums lately because I've been busy & just didn't have the time to play the last episode. I found the time to finish the last episode now & I have to say, I'm pretty disappointed how it all ended. Chapters 1-3 were excellent & I was really excited & happy about how the series was playing out. But it all started to fall apart for me from chapter 4 onwards. I was looking forward to the night time episode of chapter 4 a lot. I was hoping to get that lonely, night time ambience from the episode that I got from Melee Island when I first played MI1. But that didn't happen. Perhaps because in MI1 it starts off at night & you spend a lot of time there & then you are rewarded with the sun scorched Journey & Under Monkey Island once you leave Melee. But a lot of it was to do with the illogical & annoying puzzles in Ch4 & what I thought was a rather boring story. Ch4 was awful for me. Really let me down & I didn't like it at all. Sorry. That's enough about Ch4, I didn't mean to say that much about it, but I wanted to give my opinion on the end of the season as well as the last chapter. The final chapter also had some illogical puzzles & seemed forced at times, but I did really enjoy it. The parts where you moved inbetween the rips & had to be ghost Guybrush or zombie Guybrush, depending on what you needed to accomplish, puzzle wise, were excellent. The final battle on LeChucks ship was epic as well & was an excellent nod to the old games in how the final puzzles played out. Then came the end... Massively disappointed I'm afraid. The good feeling I had about the chapter were completely undone in just a few seconds with that ending. It seemed rushed & I think it's apt that some have mentioned Lost. Because it felt just like that. Like even TT didn't know how it was going to end & they were making it up as they went, then they tried to wrap it all up at the end in an explanation that was the best they could manage. To summarise, my final feelings on the series have been somewhat of disappointment. Mainly due to my dislike of Ch4, the ending of Ch5, Elaine's poor characterisation throughout (she went backwards & forwards like a yo-yo & I just couldn't get a grip on her character) & how buggy the entire series was (possibly due to it being episodic). I'm undecided whether I'd like to see a second season at this point. PS. Does anyone know who the writers were for each episode? I'd be interested to know who wrote my favourite chapters & who wrote the ones I wasn't too keen on. EDIT: I've just re-read my post & it comes across as a little ungrateful to TTG. I want to point out (to TT mainly & everyone involved in the game) that I am grateful they resurrected the MI series & I appreciate all the hard work they've put in throughout the season. Despite my gripes & feelings towards the end, a lot of the puzzles have been some of the best & cleverest the MI series have ever seen. For an episodic, 3D, keyboard controlled, MI game, you did a great job. It just wasn't perfect & that's just not good enough for a crazed, frothing at the mouth, MI fan like me! Last edited by a3HeadedMonkey; 01/06/2010 at 11:37 pm.

01/17/2010, 06:04 am	#95
ezzetabi Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 154	Is explained how Elaine know how to return from the crossroad in human form? It is really strange considering that even the Voodoo lady did not know! He might have talked with LeChuck since he escaped from the crossoroads many times (5?), but the fact that the power of true love works so well should be unknown even for him, or not? __________________ Legendary Maiden Nakoruru fancomic.

01/17/2010, 09:12 am	#97
ezzetabi Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 154	It is an habit I noticed too, but I completely disagree with. It seems people take something that disliked and says `Since I disliked _that_ so everything is bad.' I do not know the OP was thinking in this way I prefer saying: `without forgetting the pleasure we had playing, enjoying the story, do you think is would be even better if...?' or `I loved the series, but I _that_ does not make any sense!' __________________ Legendary Maiden Nakoruru fancomic.

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01/07/2010, 08:02 am	#83
Ashton Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,017	Here's something none of you seem to have taken into acount... The games all have a very central concept of VooDoo. In VooDoo, everything is predetermined, you cannot easily change your fate or hte fate of others. It is one of the strongest beliefs in voodoo - that hte spirits cocntrol everyone' destany. Also, did nobody consider elane's "I always had a plan" just a smartalec comment to save face? a much more serios version of when a person screws up and then say "uhhh.... I um.... I meant for that to happen! yeah... heh...."

01/07/2010, 08:29 am	#84
PecanBlue I warned you about stairs Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Not telling, I don't want rocks thrown at my house Posts: 743	But it wasn't "I always HAD a plan" it's "I always have a plan." Meaning she always has a plan in bad situations not that she was planning everything from the start.

01/07/2010, 02:40 pm	#89
PecanBlue I warned you about stairs Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Not telling, I don't want rocks thrown at my house Posts: 743	Yes, I also mentioned that a few pages back as one of the possibilities. Lots of mysteries in this game anyway.

01/07/2010, 03:06 pm	#90
SHODANFreeman Mute Ruler of Insects Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 3,741	This whole thread feels as ridiculous as this.

01/07/2010, 03:07 pm	#91
PecanBlue I warned you about stairs Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Not telling, I don't want rocks thrown at my house Posts: 743	^ Oh no! Not completely valid goofs!

01/08/2010, 04:13 am	#93
PecanBlue I warned you about stairs Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Not telling, I don't want rocks thrown at my house Posts: 743	Considering she doesn't even even finish her sentence, nor do we really know what even happened before all this, it's hard to come to any conclusion like that. I don't think making mistakes makes someone a bad person either.

01/16/2010, 05:50 pm	#94
nivekious Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 2	I think it really comes down to the fact that Elaine has always been a bit of a (justified) know-it-all. In MI1 she frees herself and makes voodoo rootbear without the canabals' help, even though they were the only ones who knew how to make it. In MI2 she goes right to the island where Big Whoop was buried without have ever scene more than one piece of the map, and without having that piece anymore. She has always known things that she has no logical reason for knowing, and even if she didn't know something, she would want to make it seem like she did. Why else would she bring up the completely irrelevant pronounciation of "esponja" at the end? She likes that intellectual superiority. She's the kind of person who will take credit for anything she can take credit for, even when she wasn't responsible. This should be clear from the fact that she took credit for killing LeChuck after MI1.

01/17/2010, 08:39 am	#96
Chyron8472 Killer Walrus Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tulsa, OK, USA Posts: 4,068	Has anyone considered that Elaine might have said she had a plan when she really didn't have much of one, but was just trying to claim a bit of credit for things working out in the end? (Kind of like Ron Gilbert saying that he wanted to make MI3 but never did, and things worked out for the MI series anyway.) And I thought TMI was one of the best MI games, Chapter 5 being an exciting and entertaining conclusion to the season. I, for one, am willing to overlook a few questions created by the plot so long as the overall experience was fun and entertaining. In fact, there are a number of extremely popular movies that have been made that, though they have large plothole questions staring you in the face, are still fun and exciting to watch. As far as Ron Gilbert is concerned, props to the man who created Monkey Island but I believe that though he claims to have had an MI3 game in mind, he never even started creating it. Not to mention that the end of MI2 was full of the weirdness factor that would befit Sam & Max. I personally think that he was just saying that he was planning on making an MI3 himself, just to give himself a bit of props, though the end of MI2 is bizarre and random enough to suggest he never even considered it. Besides, I love Curse. For ages, it was my favorite game (though TMI gives it a run for it's money.)