I really hate Elaine in the ending sequence (SPOILER)

[SHODANFreeman]

Originally Posted by PecanBlue

^
Oh no! Not completely valid goofs!

Hey guys, let's discuss decidedly minor possible inconsistencies in a comedy! Sounds like something that isn't totally a waste of time and pointless!

[PecanBlue]

Let's discuss fiction on a message board in general! Totally seems like a productive way to spend our time rather than to go outside and get some fresh air and exercise!

It's a message board for a game, dude. Discussing ANYTHING about it after you're already done with it isn't ever a productive way to spend your time. Unless you want to count that you're getting some writing or communication experience out of it, and so it shouldn't even matter what the subject is.

Also, goofs are totally different things than plot gaps. I certainly find them interesting and funny to read, and they're not really meant to berate the source.

[techie775]

Originally Posted by PecanBlue

I don't remember this at all, somehow. I just remember Voodoo Lady taking credit.

Largo lied and said that and ended up with part of LeChuck. The Voodoo Lady never made that claim.

I thought there's more than one reference that Elaine says defeated Lechuck. I don't remember who it was (maybe the gate guard?) but Elaine's staff mentions she defeated LeChuck, that and I thought she had a book in the library (not sure on that one) with her name as an anagram.

[PecanBlue]

I somehow think this is just a running gag about nobody believing that Guybrush could actually kill LeChuck and then just having other people be falsely credited throughout.

[coolsome]

I think Elaine was bluffing when she said "i let played along with your nice guy act" theres loads of times when random thins come togeather and worked out good 4 me and i lied saing i planed it all along I think she may have 2

[Diduz]

Originally Posted by Sailorcuteness

I think Elaine was bluffing when she said "i let played along with your nice guy act"

Best explanation ever, I really mean this.
Unfortunately, we could just ASSUME it's a bluff. We'll never know.

[PecanBlue]

Yeah my friend even thought the two statements were unconnected and she was in denial when saying both. She thought when Elaine said "I let you capture me" she was referring to the most recent capture that Winslow mentions and not the one at the beginning, and then tried to make up an excuse for the whole nice guy thing before. Like she's just trying keep LeChuck in his place and stands her ground as the tough one in front of him.

WHO KNOWS!!!

[nikasaur]

According to This! there's a pretty good explanation from Stemmle:

SWP: There are a lot of controversial talks between the fans regarding the story of ToMI. Can you clear it up a bit for us? For instance, is it implied that Elaine knows about everything from the start? How much DOES she know and what was her plan, if she had one?

MS: Elaine has a history of being one step ahead of Guybrush, LeChuck, and everyone else in the world of Monkey Island. That’s because, well, most of the cast isn’t all that bright.

Our take is that Elaine has long suspected that the Voodoo Lady has been putting Guybrush and LeChuck through a never-ending cycle of conflict for mysterious purposes. This annoys the heck out of Elaine, who is ultra-protective of her hubby and chafes at the notion of being manipulated by forces beyond her control. But Guybrush trusted the Voodoo Lady too much for Elaine to simply say “Hey, I think this nice lady that has helped you on umpteen previous occasions is using you like a puppet.” Besides, she didn’t want to get on the Voodoo Lady’s radar.

When LeChuck suddenly became human at the start of the first episode, Elaine intuitively realized that LeChuck was also playing some sort of long game against the Voodoo Lady, so she went along with it, keeping an eye on LeChuck all the while, and nudging Guybrush in ways both small (”trust me”) and large (”take the ring”).

Of course, she didn’t plan on being overwhelmed by the Pox. Or LeChuck actually managing to kill Guybrush. That’s why she’s so forlorn at the start of the final episode; she’s played things too close to the vest, and now her snugglebunny is dead.

[Diduz]

Originally Posted by nikasaur

According to This! there's a pretty good explanation from Stemmle:

I really liked the answer, but unfortunately it doesn't explain the role of LeChuck's "trust belt". And I don't understand what Mike means with


"nudging Guybrush in ways both small (”trust me”) and large (”take the ring”)."
What kind of "Voodoo-Lady-related-nudging" is giving him the ring? What should Guybrush guess by that?

[ttg_Stemmle]

Originally Posted by Diduz

I really liked the answer, but unfortunately it doesn't explain the role of LeChuck's "trust belt". And I don't understand what Mike means with


"nudging Guybrush in ways both small (”trust me”) and large (”take the ring”)."
What kind of "Voodoo-Lady-related-nudging" is giving him the ring? What should Guybrush guess by that?

LeChuck's Trust Belt is something that just sort of enhanced human LeChuck's natural charisma. Elaine likely never REALLY got sucked in by it, although she probably had undoubtedly had moments where her resolve was tested (Exhibit A: "Woof."). In other words, it's a bit of a puzzle device that also helps explain why everyone else in the Caribbean is willing to give Human LeChuck the time of day.

Elaine's handing Guybrush her ring is an interesting lil' plot point, innit? She had no idea that her hubby would be stuck in the afterlife, nor that the rules for getting out of the afterlife would neatly coincide with offering up said ring. And yet, she intuitively KNOWS to give it to him, and makes sure he keeps his hands on it, even AFTER she's fully f-ed up by the Pox (note how ticked she gets on the stand when Guybrush points out the ring on the evidence stand). She knows the ring is important, and does everything she can to reinforce its importance, even though she really can't have ANY idea WHY its important.

So how'd the idea get planted in her head, anyway?

Mike "Max is a funny little bunny" Stemmle

[GuruGuru214]

Originally Posted by ttg_Stemmle

(note how ticked she gets on the stand when Guybrush points out the ring on the evidence stand)

I loved that. In fact, I'm tempted to play Trial and Execution again right now just because I can't remember her exact response, just that it was great.

[PecanBlue]

"You let them take it from you?! *red eyes* Didn't I tell you never to let it out of your siiiight?!" (says sight in a REALLY SCARY GROWL)

"But-"

"But me no buts, love of mine!"

It is indeed a great scene, I pretty much shot my face away from the monitor when she said that and my friend audibly said "OH SH**."

[Jen Kollic]

Originally Posted by nikasaur

According to This! there's a pretty good explanation from Stemmle:

That's pretty much how I interpreted Elaine's actions and reactions, I really don't get why people seem to think she's being a bitch. (if anything, she seems to have softened somewhat since Escape)

As fas as the issue with the trust belt goes, I'd agree that it plays into things by allowing LeChuck to interact with the people he formerly terrorised (i.e. the entire Caribbean) without them shunning/being terrified of him. After all, being turned human doesn't really excuse all his actions while being a ghost/zombie/demon. And I think the belt buckle may have been subtly influencing Elaine in that she was prepared to go along with LeChuck's plans to 're-home' the assorted monkeys without questioning why they had to be put in such specific places. (on a raft in the middle of the ocean? Really?)

Regarding the books in MI2, IIRC Elaine didn't write one about how she killed LeChuck, but she did write one about her then-failed relationship with Guybrush. There's also eight or so 'romance' novels in the catalogue written by a 'Melanie Leary', which is an anagram for Elaine Marley, but nothing about LeChuck. Guybrush on the other hand has written no less than four different books on how he defeated LeChuck. ('When/Why/How/Where I Blew Up LeChuck')

And not to go off topic, but I also don't see how Morgan would be better for Guybrush than Elaine. (and I love Morgan) Say what you like about Elaine, but she's never cut off his hand or sold him out to a mad scientist intending to dissect him...

ETA: Also, I agree with the 'Elaine only becomes LeChuck's demon bridge to get the Cursed Cutlass' theory. One of the first things she does upon being de-demonised is to try and hide it behind her back, like she's not wanting LeChuck to notice that she's still got it.

[Diduz]

Originally Posted by ttg_Stemmle

LeChuck's Trust Belt is something that just sort of enhanced human LeChuck's natural charisma. Elaine likely never REALLY got sucked in by it, although she probably had undoubtedly had moments where her resolve was tested (Exhibit A: "Woof."). In other words, it's a bit of a puzzle device that also helps explain why everyone else in the Caribbean is willing to give Human LeChuck the time of day.

Thanks for answering, Mike!!!!
So I guess the Voodoo Lady is lying when she says that Elaine has been driven by the belt. That would be no surprise, considering the Voodoo Lady isn't exactly reliable...

[coolsome]

she might not know elaine is ploting against her and assume the belt is why she was trusting lechuck

[techie775]

Originally Posted by Jen Kollic

Regarding the books in MI2, IIRC Elaine didn't write one about how she killed LeChuck, but she did write one about her then-failed relationship with Guybrush. There's also eight or so 'romance' novels in the catalogue written by a 'Melanie Leary', which is an anagram for Elaine Marley, but nothing about LeChuck. Guybrush on the other hand has written no less than four different books on how he defeated LeChuck. ('When/Why/How/Where I Blew Up LeChuck')

Oh. I wasn't sure about Elaine taking credit for LeChuck in the books but I knew she written some stuff about her relationship with Guybrush. It's been awhile since I played MI2, but I do remember the gate guard to her mansion saying Elaine blew up LeChuck.

[GinnyN]

Originally Posted by ttg_Stemmle

LeChuck's Trust Belt is something that just sort of enhanced human LeChuck's natural charisma. Elaine likely never REALLY got sucked in by it, although she probably had undoubtedly had moments where her resolve was tested (Exhibit A: "Woof."). In other words, it's a bit of a puzzle device that also helps explain why everyone else in the Caribbean is willing to give Human LeChuck the time of day.

Elaine's handing Guybrush her ring is an interesting lil' plot point, innit? She had no idea that her hubby would be stuck in the afterlife, nor that the rules for getting out of the afterlife would neatly coincide with offering up said ring. And yet, she intuitively KNOWS to give it to him, and makes sure he keeps his hands on it, even AFTER she's fully f-ed up by the Pox (note how ticked she gets on the stand when Guybrush points out the ring on the evidence stand). She knows the ring is important, and does everything she can to reinforce its importance, even though she really can't have ANY idea WHY its important.

So how'd the idea get planted in her head, anyway?

Mike "Max is a funny little bunny" Stemmle

This has to finish with a "HA!"

[Keevi]

Originally Posted by Diduz

Agreed. That's the only thing I had no problem with. It's clearly a brave "on-the-fly" decision, I really liked it. It's very welll explained in close-ups and Elaine's expressions. No problem in THAT scene. The problem is with her overall "I'll unmask the Voodoo Lady plan to Guybrush" plan, as I've already explained.

I expect ethier a) "There is no ultimate Voodoo Lady plan" it all been created by Le Chuck most likely with that "Voodoo Belt", (Remember Le Chuck hates the Voodoo Lady a few words + the belt would make this happen) or b) She couldn't really prove it and without any proof there no point bringing it up to Guybush. BTW I am not sure but I think Elaine says that she don't trust the Voodoo Lady at lest once in one of the earlier parts (might even be in MI 1 or 2).
As for "I LET you capture me and I PLAYED ALONG with your stupid nice guy act because I thought it would get Guybrush to realize that the Voodoo Lady-" it's party Le Chucks influence but it's also a way to save face to herself (don't want to believe that Le Chuck tricked her so turns the table to I trick Le Chuck instead), or it not refering to the events we though it was (IE the second capture not the first). Also Elaine expected Guybrush to comeback just because Le Chuck and Guybrush have already managed to (multiple times in the case of Le Chuck).

[Papa Pishu]

+1

The whole "playing along with LeChuck so that you could realize [pffft] that the Voodoo Lady was behind everything" crapout also got to me

[mgrant]

It didn't bother me that much, to be honest. Elaine's been several steps ahead of the other characters since SoMI so it didn't seem so that she would be in ToMI. I don't really see it as her having this grand master plan so much as it is her seeing opportunities (LeChuck being human and becoming his demon bride after he announces that only someone with his powers can pick the Cutlass up, etc.) and attempting to utilize them to her advantage.