Video: The TRUE Secret of Monkey Island

[Little Writer]

ARE they dead? When they show up in the skeleton dance dream sequence, Guybrush merely asks "What are you doing here?" instead of screaming out "You're alive!"

[andygeers]

Originally Posted by Little Writer

ARE they dead? When they show up in the skeleton dance dream sequence, Guybrush merely asks "What are you doing here?" instead of screaming out "You're alive!"

All that tells you is that Guybrush didn't KNOW they were dead. Besides, they do turn into dancing SKELETONS.

[Little Writer]

So, for the voodoo doll of LeChuck to work, do you really think they're actually brothers?

[andygeers]

Originally Posted by Little Writer

So, for the voodoo doll of LeChuck to work, do you really think they're actually brothers?

Well, think about it - whose parents are they actually proven to be during the course of the game?

[Hayden]

Originally Posted by andygeers

I don't think you're alone in this sentiment - I've come across quite a few people expressing the same idea. I must confess though, I slightly struggle to understand exactly why people feel this way - in what way does it diminish the experience?

Let me put it this way. I'll compare it to Star Wars. Star Wars is huge - it's beyond huge. The story is excellent, everybody has fallen in love with the Star Wars universe and its many amazing characters. People have such a deep love for the whole series and franchise to the extent that the SW universe almost becomes real, in a strange, and slightly nerdy, but wonderful way.

Now, imagine that Star Wars just turned out to be something that a little 9-year-old child had dreamed up while playing with his toy spaceships. It just really wouldn't be the same.

This applies to Monkey Island. We've come to know the MI world so well now, the characters have taken on their own personalities, each island has a certain charm and feel to it, we ourselves genuinely care about the events that take place within the MI world and care about the fate of the characters in it. So if I were to find that the whole saga took place within the mind of a young child who was just spending the day in a theme park, that epic battles that went on between Guybrush and LeChuck were just mere bickering between two brothers, and the whole MI world which is so unique and awesome just turned out to be... disneyland - then I be extremely disappointed and just feel a little empty inside. It would tarnish my view of this amazing creation.

I may be going a little over-the-top here, but it's just the way I personally see it.

[apenpaap]

I think the theme park was a curse LeChuck put on Guybrush, and the game seems to be supporting that:
"Chuckie"'s eyes glow at the end.
We cut back to Elaine on Dinky Island after Guybrush ends up in the carnival.

I guess it's also weird that Estevan says "Only LeChuck knows" the secret: odd that LeChuck should know that the world is an illusion if it's in Guybrush's head.

The other thing that makes me ponder, is that both LeChuck's ship and Captain Marley's ship "Elaine" were both sunk by mysterious storms whilst hunting for The Secret and for Big Whoop respectively. Coincidence?

Perhaps the Voodoo Lady called the storms: she wanted to turn LeChuck into her ghost pirate puppet (Revenge contains several clues that Ron may have intended her to be evil), and she tried to stop granpa Marley when he got close to finding Big Whoop, because she wanted to find it herself (or have LeChuck find it for her).

And I often wonder why a dog shows up at the end of MI2 when you defeat LeChuck and carries his arm off.

Here's my theory: The whole fight in the tunnels was LeChcuk putting the curse on Guybrush. Since he doesn't just have to turn Guybrush into a kid, but also make him believe it, it takes a long time. Each time he tortures Guybrush with the voodoo doll, he puts a bit more of the curse on Guybrush, and Guybrush loses a bit of his memory and sanity. Hence why those tunnels are so surreal. By the time Guybrush finishes his voodoo doll, LeChuck has so much power over Guybrush that he can make him see just about anything, and since he isn't actually Guybrush's brother the voodoo doll Guybrush made doesn't work, so he makes Guybrush see him falling apart, so Guybrush will feel sorry for him and "take his mask off" when LeChuck asks him to. So he makes Guybrush see the face of his actual brother. This causes Guybrush to believe in it and basically submit to the curse. The dog was a part of the process of convincing Guybrush he is a child imagining it all.

There's also one MAJOR clue that nobody ever seems to comment on: we know that Guybrush's parents are DEAD - their skeletons are sitting in the Lost and Found. So how come they're suddenly alive again in the themepark?

Why would these skeletons actually be Guybrush's parents? The only thing that says so is a sign that may very well have been placed there by LeChuck to convince him he's actually Guybrush's brother in order to help put the curse on Guybrush. And the parents in the theme park could be part of an illusion, or some of LeChuck minions.

[Thriftweed Fancy Pants]

What if LeChuck's spell/vision was to make Guybrush believe his parents were alive?

If Guybrush is just a little kid lost in a theme park, then maybe he's been wondering why his parents haven't found him yet ("I thought you abandoned me."). Maybe he's afraid that they've died (dancing skeletons), or maybe they really did die (in the tunnels), but whether they're lost or dead, it might have sent him into a state of denial, or into an imaginary fantasy world where he's a pirate. Even if the tunnels were part of LeChuck's spell/vision, Guybrush's dream of his parents at the big tree was not. Also, why would LeChuck try to convince him that his parents are dead, and then try to convince him that they're alive? That would be counterproductive. After all, wasn't it Guybrush who exclaimed "Holy cow, these are my PARENTS!"

[apenpaap]

Originally Posted by Thriftweed Fancy Pants

What if LeChuck's spell/vision was to make Guybrush believe his parents were alive?

If Guybrush is just a little kid lost in a theme park, then maybe he's been wondering why his parents haven't found him yet ("I thought you abandoned me."). Maybe he's afraid that they've died (dancing skeletons), or maybe they really did die (in the tunnels), but whether they're lost or dead, it might have sent him into a state of denial, or into an imaginary fantasy world where he's a pirate. Even if the tunnels were part of LeChuck's spell/vision, Guybrush's dream of his parents at the big tree was not. Also, why would LeChuck try to convince him that his parents are dead, and then try to convince him that they're alive? That would be counterproductive. After all, wasn't it Guybrush who exclaimed "Holy cow, these are my PARENTS!"

Maybe the dead parents were there to convince Guybrush LeChuck is actually his brother, because otherwise the voodoo doll wouldn't work. And then he showed them they were alive to help bring the message that all his adventures were a dream.

[Thriftweed Fancy Pants]

Doesn't that seem counterproductive? Why would LeChuck show Guybrush a vision of him defeating LeChuck at all?

And that still doesn't explain his dream beforehand.

[Vitoner]

I think that before MI3 the secret was the one described int he video (theme parks and child's overactive imagination). But now everything is so f*cked up that even if Ron would like to reveal it, he couldn't. Maybe.

[apenpaap]

Originally Posted by Thriftweed Fancy Pants

Doesn't that seem counterproductive? Why would LeChuck show Guybrush a vision of him defeating LeChuck at all?

And that still doesn't explain his dream beforehand.

It's possible that LeChuck didn't expect Guybrush to actually make the doll (After all, each time Guybrush defeats him, it's because LeChuck underestimates Guybrush), and that he put the skeletons there just to reinforce the claim that he is Guybrush's brother. Aftyer all, who would be more likely to have your parents's skeletons: a brother or a total stranger?
IT's also possible that LeChuck planned on having Guybrush think he was defeated, so Guybrush would think LeChuck couldn't harm him anymore and let his guard down and get cursed.

The dream isn't as shortly beforehand as it seems: Guybrush spends 5 days in the crate to LeChuck's fortress, so it would be about a week earlier. As for the contents of the dream: consider that LeChuck had just come back to life and was chasing after Guybrush. He was probably terrified. Maybe his parents died when he was a kid, and he fears going after them. Maybe his parents were still alive and he fears LeChuck may kill them.

[Chyron8472]

Originally Posted by andygeers

I don't think you're alone in this sentiment - I've come across quite a few people expressing the same idea. I must confess though, I slightly struggle to understand exactly people feel this way - in what way does it diminish the experience?

...

There's also one MAJOR clue that nobody ever seems to comment on: we know that Guybrush's parents are DEAD - their skeletons are sitting in the Lost and Found. So how come they're suddenly alive again in the themepark?

First, about the parent-skeletons: No, no Guybrush said they were his parents, but how on earth would anyone recognize their own parents' skeletons just by looking at them without further evidence? Also, they don't have to be Guybrush's parents (he could be mistaken), but they DO have to be LeChuck's parents/ancestors, since you are required to use a bone from one of them to make a LeChuck voodoo doll... so then what are LeChuck's parents'/ancestors' skeletons doing in a passageway under Dinky/Monkey Island?

Second, the reason why the whole-world-being-Guybrush's-imagination-at-a theme-park idea would ruin the series for many of us (myself included,) is because it would be exactly that: not real. So many of us have come to know these characters throughout the series and they've become quite real to us in our own imaginations. If Guybrush and everyone he knew and everywhere he went turned out to be just a dream or a child's imagination in the story itself, then nothing anyone ever does, has done, or ever will do in the world of Monkey Island will ever matter because none of it is real anyway.

It's not just a video game series, it's a story, and with that in mind, the people who have been following the characters for so long have built up an emotional interest in what happens to them. As happens when reading many great novels, at some point the characters come alive for you, and you connect with them on one level or another. To then turn it all around and say that all the adventures you've shared with those characters are a complete fraud because even the characters themselves are made aware that it's fake... well, that just ruins the bond we've created with that world and the people in it because we know that they know that none of it matters.

DO YOU HEAR ME, RON GILBERT? If the true secret of Monkey Island is that none of Guybrush's adventures are real and that it's all in his own imagination... KEEP IT TO YOURSELF, please. Let us speculate for ourselves what it is (unless it's not that, then PLEASE tell us. Please? PLEEASE? I'll give you a cookie...)

EDIT: But wait... if all of it is fake and it's just Guybrush's imagination, then why is he imagining having a 3 month long honeymoon with Elaine? It would take one really perverted small child to daydream about spending 3 months on the open sea having sex with an adult woman.

[Giant Tope]

Originally Posted by Chyron8472

But wait... if all of it is fake and it's just Guybrush's imagination, then why is he imagining having a 3 month long honeymoon with Elaine? It would take one really perverted small child to daydream about spending 3 months on the open sea having sex with an adult woman.

:[ oh dear.

I dunno. I personally thought that all the Disneyland stuff was all just a silly joke, this being a silly game about pirates. Honestly, even if that was supposed to be the Secret of Monkey Island, it'd surely would have been voided by now with the new additions to the story. That and the whole thing with Elaine saying something along the lines of "Gee, I hope Guybrush didn't get hideously cursed or anything." at the end of the game seems to imply the opposite of the whole "Guybrush is a kid" idea.

[Thriftweed Fancy Pants]

All this reminds me of LOST. Past theories:

"They're all dead!"

"It's all in Hurley's mind!"

"It's just a theme park!" (Just kidding.)

[shovell]

Maaaan this thread is really making me want to play MI2 again now so baddd! I should be doing work...

The thing I find odd is that if Guybrush's parents had sent his brother Chuckie to look for him, then how come its Guybrush who goes off to seek LeChuck in SMI? It seems to me the only reason LeChuck is after Guybrush in MI2 is because of the events of SMI. The parallel's here don't make much sense to me here.

[Mataku]

In MI1, if you encounter a pirate in the forest you can ask him 'why do you talk so funny' and he'll go "that's the way people talk back then. come on, guybrush, play along". I think that is another proof of the imagination theory.

[Haggis]

Originally Posted by Mataku

In MI1, if you encounter a pirate in the forest you can ask him 'why do you talk so funny' and he'll go "that's the way people talk back then. come on, guybrush, play along". I think that is another proof of the imagination theory.

Or it could just be a fourth-wall breaking joke. I'm not really buying the theme park explanation. Kids have rich imaginations, but thinking up that many crazy characters? That must be some child prodigy.

[DonCopal]

I'll share the sentiment with some others here. I don't want the whole thing to be made up. I've grown to love the entire pirate atmosphere, and to just dismiss the entire thing as fake, is well...disappointing to say the least. Some of these theories, such as the E-Ticket, the dog, the T-Shirt were most likely silly jokes put in for a good laugh. Besides, I'm satisfied with the way it all turned out. Instead of Monkey Island just being some series that ended in the mid-90s we have one of my favorite games of all-time (COMI) and a whole series that's still going strong today .

And c'mon. How come the people behind the "dream-theory" never really acknowledge the whole LeChuck evil face at the end. Do normal kids at Amusement Parks do that often? And the whole Elaine thing where she Capitalizes the words "EVIL CURSE" or something like that is another giveaway IMO.

Summary: If Ron's MI3 came out, it would be a great game. However, this would just make Monkey Island some forgotten trilogy from the early 90s. Instead we have an entire world that lives on to this day.

[StarEye]

Originally Posted by DonCopal

Summary: If Ron's MI3 came out, it would be a great game. However, this would just make Monkey Island some forgotten trilogy from the early 90s. Instead we have an entire world that lives on to this day.

Uhm, why do you think that? We don't know how Ron's MI3 would end, and because of that, we don't know if another game could be made after MI3. Also, at worst it would be as forgotten as Day of the Tentacle, Full Throttle or Grim Fandango is. Heck, a Ron MI3 could've opened up a whole different set of Monkey Island stories for all we know. The universe has been created, maybe the characters themselves wouldn't be so important in the end, maybe it's the world of Monkey Island that's important. It depends on what the story of MI3 would be. But I can easily see more games being made, even if the story had ended, had Ron created MI3. In what form or with what characters is unknown. But your assumption that it would be just another forgotten trilogy could very well be very wrong. I'm guessing it would be just as forgettable as the original Star Wars trilogy was.

[DonCopal]

Originally Posted by StarEye

Uhm, why do you think that? We don't know how Ron's MI3 would end, and because of that, we don't know if another game could be made after MI3. Also, at worst it would be as forgotten as Day of the Tentacle, Full Throttle or Grim Fandango is. Heck, a Ron MI3 could've opened up a whole different set of Monkey Island stories for all we know. The universe has been created, maybe the characters themselves wouldn't be so important in the end, maybe it's the world of Monkey Island that's important. It depends on what the story of MI3 would be. But I can easily see more games being made, even if the story had ended, had Ron created MI3. In what form or with what characters is unknown. But your assumption that it would be just another forgotten trilogy could very well be very wrong. I'm guessing it would be just as forgettable as the original Star Wars trilogy was.

Actually, I apologize, as my post was not really what I was aiming for in the first place. What I meant to say, is that if the whole thing was just a dream, then the entire Piratey Universe just goes up into flames, with no point of continuing the series. My other point is that I'm very happy with the path Monkey Island has taken since CMI up until Tales and I don't want to see it get the Grim Fandango treatment. Ron's MI3 would probably be another outstanding game, but CMI was such an amazing game that now that I've played it a hundred or so times, I don't want change.

Sorry if this post is hard to decipher.