Money?

[Avistew]

Is money an inappropriate subject?
I like talking about money. I find it relaxing. I was wondering if other people were in the same case and would like to talk about it.

I know it's often taboo (you're not supposed to ask people how much they earn or stuff like that) but I wasn't sure if it's considered controversial enough to be, well, something to avoid talking about on forums.

Either way, if anyone else is interested, here is a money subject. Well, for now. Who knows what it's going to turn into.

[Irishmile]

I make enough to live comfortably, with some luxuries... but not enough to live extravagantly...

[Fealiks]

I turned 17 in September, which is the legal driving age in the UK. I don't have nearly enough money to learn to drive though, let alone get a car and insurance I hate money (or a lack of it).

It annoys me how some people seem not to have a very good concept of it, though. As an example, I go to college, and I get £30 a week from the government (EMA/education maintenance allowance) because I'm from a low income family. I use this money to eat, buy clothes, books etc., just like it's intended. A lot of people at my college, though, are from pretty well-off families, and a lot of them tend to get pissed off at the fact that I get money from the government. These people get money from their parents, though (pocket money) on top of their parents paying for them to drive etc., so to me it seems like they're either incredibly ungrateful or they just genuinely don't fully understand money because they've never been in a shortage of it.

To sum up, I think that in order to have a good sense of money and how to spend/save it properly, it generally helps to not have any.

[Avistew]

What I'm most curious about is what people spend their money on, if they have a budget, etc.

For instance I read a figure that said you needs should be 50% of your income, your "wants" 30% and your "save" 20%.

But I thought that was weird. I mean if you earn very little, your needs might be 90% of your income. And if you earn a lot, you're not going to suddenly need more stuff, and you should force yourself to live in a bigger place or something so it can reach 50%.

I mean, I don't have an income at all and my husband doesn't earn much (although a bit more than minimum wage) and yet our needs are much less than 50% of our income, so I can't imagine how people who earn like 30,000+ a year would be able to spend 50% of that on needs.

[Irishmile]

I also have a wife and it definitely helps having a teammate to tackle all the money problems... Although money is also one of the main reasons people talk about in divorce court.

[Avistew]

Originally Posted by Fealiks

It annoys me how some people seem not to have a very good concept of it, though. As an example, I go to college, and I get £30 a week from the government (EMA/education maintenance allowance) because I'm from a low income family. I use this money to eat, buy clothes, books etc., just like it's intended. A lot of people at my college, though, are from pretty well-off families, and a lot of them tend to get pissed off at the fact that I get money from the government. These people get money from their parents, though (pocket money) on top of their parents paying for them to drive etc., so to me it seems like they're either incredibly ungrateful or they just genuinely don't fully understand money because they've never been in a shortage of it.

That reminds me of a friend of mine. Well two of them. One lived in a studio (10 square metres, about 100 square feet) and earned 800 euros a month. She wasn't doing awesome but she was getting by.
The other, who's from a super rich family, would make comments like "well, you can buy lots of stuff with 800 euros!"
I've shopped with her in the past (which mostly means I've carried her bags lol) and it was common (yes, common, she'd do it regularly, as in several times a month at least) to buy 600 euros worth of DVDs in one go, then move on to the comic book section or clothes and spend even more.

It completely boggled my mind that she could only think of money in matters of "pocket money", that is money to spend on stuff she wanted. It never seemed to cross her mind that things like rent, electricity bills, transportation and food (not restaurants, just basic cheap food) cost money too, and a lot of it. And that my other friend didn't have money left that she could spend as "pocket money" once she was done paying for the basics.

It was a bit frustrating to say the least. Especially since she's such a nice and generous person. For her money just isn't an object, she's never had to stop and think about it, as you said because she's never lacked it.

[Fealiks]

Originally Posted by avistew

That reminds me of a friend of mine. Well two of them. One lived in a studio (10 square metres, about 100 square feet) and earned 800 euros a month. She wasn't doing awesome but she was getting by.
The other, who's from a super rich family, would make comments like "well, you can buy lots of stuff with 800 euros!"
I've shopped with her in the past (which mostly means I've carried her bags lol) and it was common (yes, common, she'd do it regularly, as in several times a month at least) to buy 600 euros worth of DVDs in one go, then move on to the comic book section or clothes and spend even more.

It completely boggled my mind that she could only think of money in matters of "pocket money", that is money to spend on stuff she wanted. It never seemed to cross her mind that things like rent, electricity bills, transportation and food (not restaurants, just basic cheap food) cost money too, and a lot of it. And that my other friend didn't have money left that she could spend as "pocket money" once she was done paying for the basics.

It was a bit frustrating to say the least. Especially since she's such a nice and generous person. For her money just isn't an object, she's never had to stop and think about it, as you said because she's never lacked it.

Yeah, that's exactly the type of thing that I'm talking about. I don't think you should blame people for that sort of behaviour though - if it's a genuine lack of thought/knowledge on their part then it's best to just let it slide.

About the 50% of your income thingy, though, as I said I get £30 a week, and I usually end up spending about £20 of it on food (which is about 67%). The rest is sometimes saved, sometimes spent on things for college and sometimes spent as pocket money. I think you're right that the amount you spend on things you "need" depends entirely on how much you actually earn.

[TookiGuy]

I'd reccomend "God Bless You, Mr.Rosewater" by Kurt Vonnegut.

It's a little harsh, but it says a lot of things that need to be said about money.

Our civilization's money system is very iffy.
Money = representation of the work you've done/goods you've helped produced.
Amount of work done in the world = amount of money in the world.

But when we include things like rent, and interest, you're basically creating money out of thin air.
You just have money sitting there, multiplying.

[Avistew]

Yeah, I think stuff that's based on % of income is often flawed, since income can vary so much.

When they say you can expect to spend x% of your current income once you're retired, I'm always thinking "shouldn't you base that on your current actual spending rather than your current income?"
What if someone earns so much that they only spend 10% of what they earn (and are stashing up the rest for when they stop earning that much)?

Also, I wasn't blaming my friend but it was sometimes frustrating some of the comments she made. You could tell she really had no idea, and we tried to make her see but it didn't seem to work much.

I also agree with Irishmile that having a "financial partner" can be a lot of help (or a lot of trouble). The most obvious example in our case is that we've never had two incomes at the same time (I used to make the only income, now it's reversed) but it's also a lot of help to discuss things, and in our case we temperate each other, since I tend to oversave and he tends to overspend. We remind each other not to overdo it too much.
(I don't think it would work if the difference is too huge though, or if the halves of the couple aren't beyond doing things behind each other's back).

I think it's too bad that some people just avoid the subject altogether. I mean, you need to at least know where you're standing (are you spending more than you make? Are you in debt? Did you forget to pay some bills?) and you can't just ignore it and think it will go away.
A lot of people find it stressful, I find it relaxing because this way I know where I'm standing. Even if the result is "you owe us money", I feel much more relaxed knowing how much exactly and how long it will take me to pay it back than just not knowing if I owe money or not.

[Comrade Pants]

So, did anyone really think a thread about money could be established without me dropping by to give my two cents? A man is, of course, entitled to keep ever cent he makes. It is not the place of the government or the church to tell a man what's his and what's not. Any man who tells you different, either has his finger in your pocket or a pistol at your neck.

[PecanBlue]

TL;DR story of my financial status ahead.

I still live with my parents, but only because I don't see it necessary to rent an apartment when my school is so close to my house. I'll most likely move to Orlando after I graduate and share rent with my friend, but for now it's financially easier like this. Besides, even if I wanted to live on my own, I couldn't, at least not for the school I'm going to. Not just because I can't afford the dorms, but there's other factors.

First of all, I don't get any sort of financial aid, only loans. I think it's because when I applied for it, both my parents were employed. Now, I'm not complaining at all about this, after all I've already adapted, but sometimes I wish things were a little easier for us financially. My mom has been laid off twice from her job now and she's going to a career college to work on something else, because she's deemed it impossible to get an engineering job in this area and with the economy being what it is. My dad is well off, but he makes less than half what my mom made when she had a job, so it's not as easy as it once was.

My school is EXPENSIVE, let's just leave it at that. Even for the gargantuan amount of money you have to pay, there's still buying your supplies for every class and such, some you don't even end up using later, and can easily amount to $100 per class. I did so well in high school but I didn't get any financial aid or anything from it, because it didn't count towards this school, I'm guessing. (but it's the only school with animation around here so I have no choice) So sometimes I feel as if it was all for naught since most of my friends who got into the same school managed with a G.E.D. I just wish I had a LITTLE bit of financial support because I am managing through loans and I know it's going to come back and bite me in the butt later. D: (my parents won't pay for it, I have to) A lot of the students at my school are completely baffled when I tell them I get no financial aid. Like one time this guy invited me to eat lunch at the school cafeteria and I told him I had no money. He asked me how much I had left on my "card." I told him I don't have financial aid pay for my food and he looked at me like I had showed him a live unicorn. :|

One thing I did to avoid the mass of money is to take the general credits in a cheaper community college, which helped out the strain a bit. Though thankfully they were transferrable in my school. This school has a campus somewhere else where they aren't, for some strange reason, even though it's basically the same school!

So basically, my school has these very annoying schedules, especially for animation students. They're around 3-4 hours per class in an 11-week term, and even if you register early for classes there is probably no way you'd get classes at the exact time you want them because the professors are constantly being switched around. Also you're forced into 5 classes per term. (this is one of those schools where they want to get students out as fast as possible, you see) Because of this it makes it very difficult for me to get a solid job. (imagine trying to tell my boss every 11 weeks that I have to change work schedules again)

So, I work a temp. pool job. I get $12 per hour, but I am only allowed to work nine hours a week. (It was eight before but I got a raise) So yeah, I really don't make much. 3/4 of my monthly paycheck goes into my savings for my car and such, the rest is used for whatever I want, though sometimes I have to use it for food and school supplies. But it's ok at least I have a house, some people are far, far worse. You have no idea how many of my friends have come over to stay at my house after... Issues.

[Avistew]

That sounds pretty bad.

I get annoyed at how help is always counted depending on how much your parents earn. I know lots of people who don't get any financial help from their parents, yet because their parents earn over a certain amount, they won't get help from the government either, it's stupid.

I'm "lucky" enough that I'm not studying so I don't have to worry about any of that. My husband is following a degree paid by his job but it's only one credit at a time, so it's going to take 6 or 8 years for a two-year degree, so we're trying to save up so he can take a few extra degrees that we'll pay for and he'll be done earlier.
Right now I'm not sure if it will be worth it though. Will he get a pay raise high enough that it will pay for itself? If he can finish two years earlier but in two years the difference in pay didn't cover the credits, then is it still worth it?
But yeah, his job is helping with that. Which is good, since he's wanted to take that degree since before we met but could never afford it.

The other thing is that I'm worried taking extra credits would be too much for him. He already works 18-hour shifts and with that single class I can see how the homework and classes are taking pretty much all of his free time, I can't really see how he could take extra classes on top of that...

[GinnyN]

Originally Posted by PecanBlue

Also you're forced into 5 classes per term. (this is one of those schools where they want to get students out as fast as possible, you see)

Fast? Weird. At my college (Which is in fact, a University, but I'm an undergrad) five classes per term is the norm. And the career is 6 years long. And.. about the 1/4 part of my generation is going to get the actual Title, with luck (Half of them is already out without finish, the other part graduate in a shorter or a totally different degree).

Well... I'm in the University, as already you can read, and I'm living in an apartment near to my university. I didn't have an actual choice, because I'm originally from an small town, and, if I have to study a good career, is has to be in a good university. Thanksfully, I'm in those universities we call Traditional, in which what you have to pay is in fact "cheap" compared to those universities we call "Private", which are expensive. Really expensive. (By the way, we call college and universities with the same name, university. If you ask).

It's not like my parents have a ton of money, but they have more money than the norm. Enough for buy the aparment I'm living with my sister now and enough to not have to think for those universities' costs.

Yeah, sound awesome. Woo hoo.

To be frank, and even my parents always had enough money for that, I never get always what I actually want. I could only get gifts, meaning toys or video games, at christmas (Or my birthday. If I don't celebrate my birthday). I never got an actual pocket money or whathever until I get to college. And my parents always talk to me about the troubles they have in their work. Good and bad parts.

There's also the guys which are my friends. I have those guys which were the first to go to a college in their whole family (In fact he was the first to finish the school!) and, been smart enough to stay here and get a Master or been a Doctor, he decided to finish the career as soon as he can and get job so he can help his family. I have another one who decided to stop study and get a job for help to his siblings to study. And there's the other one who decided to get a job so his parents, who were unemployed at the time, do not have to pay for his trip to the college (Even he already had financial aid).

And there's me. Who's around those guys and, when we were in the first years, I had the communitary cellphone, who buys the snacks when we went to play Pen and Paper rol play, and even I asked my parents permition to use the house at the beach (Yeah, they have one of those) for stay around a week sometimes, supposenly, playing rpg. But those, in fact were my parents who were paying it. And I KNOW that.

Just recently I started to win some money by creating the Zazzle Account and by doing some jobs programing web pages. I use all those money for my stuff (In fact, I started the Zazzle Account for buy S&M S3 =P) but I know I can't to just go and start to produce and say I will start to worry for the bills and everything before get graduate because I also know my parents are gonna kill me. Why? Because they are working hard for see me out of the college with a good education, with a good degree and without any debt because they can do that. And if they can do that, they will do that.

It's not like I'm complaining for complain (I know my friends, they had much worse than me) but for some reason I always wondered if I deserve that luck. My mom told me once I must probably been the only person in the world who's ashamed for have money, and probably, I am, but I always in awe for those people who can get what they propose by using sheer motivation and brains. Maybe because I'm seeing my parents doing exactly that. Also, they love my friends because they do exactly that. That's why I could be the snack supplier, the telephone service and the vacation resort in the first years and my parents never complain (Including the fact they always buy the meat for the barbecue and have some friends ashamed because my parents can do that, and they will). I never have troubles with money, because my parents, in good on bad times, they always provide, but also they went to be sure I know what that money means (And by the fact I always have to save or win the money (Or wait for christmas) for get what I want if weren't necessary clothes or something like that).

I have to admit I have also that stupid instinct of consumist of buy the stuff I like. Like the computer I had right now, or the S&M S1 for less than the value of an episode (Which, thanks god, went to a gift for a friend who likes old adventure games ) or go to the movies 2 times a year, but, at the same time, I don't go and use a ton of money in stuff just because I can use it. And I keep wondering if I'm actually doing worth for that luck (I mean, my career is 6 years long, and I'm in my 8th year in the university... dammit!)

If this whole wall of text do not have any sense, I'm sorry, I'm natural spanish. And probably will not have any sense in spanish either, so, double sorry.

[PecanBlue]

Originally Posted by GinnyN

Fast?

Yes, fast. 3-4 hours per class + 11-week term + 5 classes per term = completed within two or three years. One school that does this to horrible extents is Fullsail.

[JedExodus]

Money's so *bleugh* though. Ye earn it, ye save it, ye spend it what's there to say?

[GinnyN]

Originally Posted by PecanBlue

Yes, fast. 3-4 hours per class + 11-week term + 5 classes per term = completed within two or three years. One school that does this to horrible extents is Fullsail.

I'm just saying 5 classes per term is normal at my university. I get to know guys who takes like 9 classes per term because they are doing 2 careers at the time and they get them in time. Those are weird. There's other who takes 7 or 8 classes per term because they want to get fast out of there. And, with luck, they got one half of a year less. It's not like I'm saying you don't get too much work, but there's guys here who get much and much more work at once and they will be, like 6 years in college or more because is normal. The shorter one career here is 4 years, with 5 classes per term. You take less than that and you will get one more year here. In fact, even I'm already 8 years in the university, the normal time to get out with the career I'm studying is 9 years. (I got to knew a guy who started university when I started Primary School, in my first year of university and he still was an student).

If you get a good career under that conditions, is paradise here. Really. I'm lucky because my parents can pay, but there's guys who actually are studying with a loan (Or that horrible scholarship which pay you everything but you can never fail course or get under a certain grade T_T) and they will stay in the university 6 years because that the norm. With 5 classes (And sometimes 6 classes at once) always because is not fast, is normal. Or at least in my university. Others are a bit more relaxed.

It's hilarious because we can get all the jokes from PhD Webcomic and we're all undergrads. UNDERGRADS!

(Then again, I'm not saying you don't get work or you aren't doing that fast. I'm just saying here we have almost the same amount of work and we don't get out in less than 6 years. 5 and a half if you are a some sort of martian)

[PecanBlue]

I know it's normal... At a normal university.

I'm not complaining that it's too much work, in fact I am supposed to take at least four classes to be a full-time student for my medical insurance. I am saying that they force you into it, and with four hours per class it gets hectic for students who need to make money and have families to take care of, especially with the constant shifting of schedules within two and a half months. (sometimes they just won't have a class at all for the time you need regardless of how early you register) It interferes with most work schedules and for that amount of money you are paying for the school, it sucks you can't make your own schedules like in other colleges. If you want to take two classes, you pretty much can't unless that's how much you need to graduate, it's pretty non-negotiable.

[Everlast]

Originally Posted by avistew

What I'm most curious about is what people spend their money on, if they have a budget, etc.

For instance I read a figure that said you needs should be 50% of your income, your "wants" 30% and your "save" 20%.

But I thought that was weird. I mean if you earn very little, your needs might be 90% of your income. And if you earn a lot, you're not going to suddenly need more stuff, and you should force yourself to live in a bigger place or something so it can reach 50%.

I mean, I don't have an income at all and my husband doesn't earn much (although a bit more than minimum wage) and yet our needs are much less than 50% of our income, so I can't imagine how people who earn like 30,000+ a year would be able to spend 50% of that on needs.

I like this posts so much i will never forget how much of my money i should spend and save. Believe me man, ill never forget this post.

As of me, i spend my money right now on college. Right now i got $0. Which is pretty frustrating and uncomfortable, since i had to go to internship reviews in N.Y and Miami, and i saw how my savings dwindled to 0. Then because i didnt pass 1 of 2 qualifying tests for thesis and internship, i lost my student loan. So i had to rely on my girlfriend for money to help me pay the fee to retake the test i didnt passed for 2 pts.

Well that has been the story of this semester, i also took the time to work and am currently awaiting my payoff. Man your post served as a way for me to vent off.

[Avistew]

I'm not sure what you meant by "class". I only went to university for two years, and it was in France, when you choose what you want to study but then everything is compulsory.

Let me remember the classes... or what we called classes (I studied English):

GB Civ: 1h30
US Civ: 1h30
English > French translation: 1h30
French>English translation: 1h30
Literature: 2h30
Linguistics: 1h
Oral comprehension: 1h30
Phonetics: 2h
Methodology: 2h30
French: 1h30
Other language: 1h30
Option: 1h30

"Methodology" was analysing stuff, newspaper articles for one semester and literary texts for the other (classes are always year-long in France). "Oral comprehension" they would play audio material, such as short story read by someone, and then we'd answer test questions to make sure we understood everything. The option was to choose from a list that included things like "contemporary American literature" or "advanced linguistics".

It was considered a light course because it only had 20 hours instead of 25-30. (But of course that doesn't include the time you're supposed to study from home. Exams can be on something that was never studied in class, part of the program is supposed to be studied on your own).
Both years had the same classes, except for French that was dropped after the first year and replaced with 2h of another option to select from the list. The way I understood it, from the fourth year on (that is after you got your lowest degree) you could specialise. That was an added course of I think 3 or 4 hours in whatever you chose (you had to keep studying the rest).
Then 2 years after that you got your master, and for the PhD it was different. But I never looked into that since I dropped out after the second year to move to Canada.

I guess the main difference is your classes change every semester while ours are the same for the whole degree, or at the very least for a whole year.

[puzzlebox]

Originally Posted by avistew

For instance I read a figure that said you needs should be 50% of your income, your "wants" 30% and your "save" 20%. [...] I can't imagine how people who earn like 30,000+ a year would be able to spend 50% of that on needs.

Those figures are ridiculous, aren't they? I guess they assume that as you earn more, your "needs" change. If you're very wealthy you might "need" a 6-bedroom house with sweeping lawns, "need" to send little Crispin and Tabitha to boarding school, and "need" a new gelding for next week's polo match.