Kind of disappointed...

[Wizpig]

Originally Posted by jovak

I´m a big fan of everything that Telltale´s made and especially Sam&Max. But I don´t know what to think about these two episodes. Sure, they look great, the gameplay is harder and more advanced but something´s missing. There´s too little of the psychotic Max ("the total annihilation of the godless Belgians", "is this the end of little Maxie?"), the dialog isn´t as razorsharp as in the two last seasons. I sure hope that this will change in the upcoming episodes.

What I can say is that from the little parts I saw of Season 2... it seems like that the old season was more "Sam & Max"-ey, with lots of popular culture references, maybe less family friendly jokes, etc.

[Lena_P]

I feel kind of bad for writing this, since it was a generally clever and well-written episode, but I didn't really like 302. I felt like jumping back and forth through the reels allowed for clever puzzle design, but that it didn't do the story any favors. I had assumed Sam and Max were "reliving" Sameth and Maximus' adventures, but there are too many plot holes in the story for that to make sense (like singing Amelia to sleep with "Flight of the Valkyries". How the heck would they have known to do that short of time travel?) and all the jumping around made the story harder to follow without making for a more interesting telling (like finding out Nefertiti had a crush on Charlie Ho-tep before I had met her the "first" time which just came across as confusing). I think the basic plot was interesting, but the way it was revealed was awkward. I think it would have been easier to follow the narrative if it had unfolded linearly.

If it had been that Sam and Max weren't just watching the story unfold, but actually inhabiting their ancestors and experiencing it for themselves I think it would have worked out better. Instead of Sammeth and Maximus experiencing puzzle-dependent amnesia when it came time to escape Kringle's attack in the tomb, it would have actually been Sam and Max going, "How did our great-grandpas get out of this one?" Sammeth and Maximus acted exactly like Sam and Max anyway, so it wouldn't have been that big of a change.

Of course, I'm the anal-over-analyzer type, so I'm probably the only person bothered by this kind of narrative nitpickiness! And I still like that they decided to do something different with this episode. The fact that they're not content to just go with the same old, same old is one of the things I love best about Telltale after all.

[Fury]

I sorta feel the same. 301 was a bit meh, it didn't really do anything special. 302 was annoying, I always knew exactly what I had to do, but had to fiddle around in dialogue menus to be able to do it.

I didn't like 201,202 or 101,102,103 at all though, so it is a better start. That being said, I was expecting it to be to the quality of Monkey Island in terms of puzzles, and I just haven't seen that.

Get the person who did MI Ep 4 to do a Sam and Max episode, that episode had the best puzzles ever.

[SHODANFreeman]

Sam and Max storylines are srs bsns, guys.

[splash1]

THIS IS BLASPHEMY! No, really, Episode 2 wasn't that bad. You people should stop trying to bring back the "Episode 2 is always the worst Episode". It looks to me that you're all trying to find the worst possible things in the Episode and then pick at it. Let it go, move on.

It's just a different Sam & Max adventure. It was just to shake things up a bit. Stop harping on it.

[Fury]

Originally Posted by splash1

THIS IS BLASPHEMY! No, really, Episode 2 wasn't that bad. You people should stop trying to bring back the "Episode 2 is always the worst Episode". It looks to me that you're all trying to find the worst possible things in the Episode and then pick at it. Let it go, move on.

It's just a different Sam & Max adventure. It was just to shake things up a bit. Stop harping on it.

What, so we're not entitled to a little criticism of the game? It was allright, but it wasn't perfect.

[splash1]

Originally Posted by Fury

What, so we're not entitled to a little criticism of the game? It was allright, but it wasn't perfect.

Criticisms' one thing, but when everyone jumps in and finds everything they didn't like about the game, and then stretch it out so that goes on for 5 scrolls; then that's when it comes to "Tear the game down".

[Fury]

Originally Posted by splash1

Criticisms' one thing, but when everyone jumps in and finds everything they didn't like about the game, and then stretch it out so that goes on for 5 scrolls; then that's when it comes to "Tear the game down".

It's only 2 scrolls long

[Avel]

Originally Posted by Fury

It's only 2 scrolls long

And to be fair, a scroll is only about 2 posts most of the time.

[light_rises]

Originally Posted by Lena_P

If it had been that Sam and Max weren't just watching the story unfold, but actually inhabiting their ancestors and experiencing it for themselves I think it would have worked out better. Instead of Sammeth and Maximus experiencing puzzle-dependent amnesia when it came time to escape Kringle's attack in the tomb, it would have actually been Sam and Max going, "How did our great-grandpas get out of this one?" Sammeth and Maximus acted exactly like Sam and Max anyway, so it wouldn't have been that big of a change.

This is what I thought was going on at first, but after playing through the rest of the game and thinking about it, I'm ... not sure. It almost feels like a bit of both were going on at the same time, but ... maybe not? I don't really know. Like you said, going with Option 1 (they relived it!) presents problems due to what looks like some weird instances of selective amnesia. Option 2 (body possession!) makes more sense overall, but there's little-to-nothing in the episode itself to support this. I end up wanting to say "all of the above," if only because it's never really explained. I kind of wish it was, even if Sam & Max by nature doesn't necessitate a tight and logically-consistent plot.

Aside from that, the jumbled timeline worked pretty well for me from both a puzzle and storytelling perspective.

Originally Posted by Lena_P

Of course, I'm the anal-over-analyzer type, so I'm probably the only person bothered by this kind of narrative nitpickiness!

Hey, I resemble that remark! But that aside, I think a touch of "de gustibus non est disputandum" comes into play here along with nitpickiness. The former of which being both inevitable and good, and the latter being an admirable trait more often than most of us would like to believe.

Originally Posted by Lena_P

And I still like that they decided to do something different with this episode. The fact that they're not content to just go with the same old, same old is one of the things I love best about Telltale after all.

110% agreed.

[Lena_P]

And the "Cake vs Pie" thread in the general chat forum was posted six days after this thread and has more than twice as many pages.

[The Highway]

Originally Posted by Lena_P

And the "Cake vs Pie" thread in the general chat forum was posted six days after this thread and has more than twice as many pages.

Wait, what is this referring to? who are you talking to? and what does this have to do with being disappointed? im confused

[Lena_P]

splash1 said "everyone's" posting "five scrolls" worth of posts about what they didn't like about episode two is the same as "tear(ing) the game down". I was trying to point out there have actually been very few complaints and that a discussion about the merits of different baked goods and pastries has actually garnered far more interest. I don't think he has to worry about a few folks complaining since it seems the majority of players loved the episode.

[bobtheskutter]

Originally Posted by doodinthemood

I guess everyone's different. I found the writing better in this one, but there did seem to be less of the following:
1) click something you know is unimportant, 2) sam says something, 3) max says something witty in response.

It felt like there were a million of these items in season 1, in settings such as their office.

Yes- I totally agree. I think the writing is great in the current season (and the storytelling possibly better). But there is less back and forth between Sam and Max. Previously, I would be amused by them talking to each other as much as I would be amused solving the puzzles and progressing the story. There was a real sense of their friendship and it was truly delightful.

[Wizpig]

I actually loved 301 and 302, but found almost no references to pop culture and, you know, stuff you would think is in a Sam & Max media.
Season 3 is probably less random, and this is both a good and a bad thing.

You look at 201 and you see a giant singing robot that sings popular songs, and a "Torture me Elmer" doll, you know what I mean.

[guitarsareboring]

Off the top of my bonce, these are my thoughts on the series so far

LOVE
Presentation - film grain, directing, general art-style.
More locations per-episode than any other TT game.
The story overall (up to now).
Skunkape (and the toilet humour that went with the whole of The Penal Zone).
Return of the map.
Soundtrack.

DISLIKE
The dialogue doesn't seem quite as funny/random, particularly in episode 2. This could just be due to the setting though.
I feel like every character plays a big role in the game and pop up everywhere you go. In older adventure games (sorry!) there were a lot of characters that would only stay in one place (like a kiosk, bridge etc) and would simply provide you with a short exchange of dialogue and maybe an item.
A lot less inventory items and less clickable but useless scenery items.
The mole-people and their screechy voices (I guess they'll be in every episode. Shame. I'll get used to them).

[Avistew]

Originally Posted by guitarsareboring

I feel like every character plays a big role in the game and pop up everywhere you go. In older adventure games (sorry!) there were a lot of characters that would only stay in one place (like a kiosk, bridge etc) and would simply provide you with a short exchange of dialogue and maybe an item.

I think that's one of the downside of voiced games. Every character needs a different voice, so you tend to have less very minor characters because you'd need to give them their own voice (and in some cases get an actor just for them), and of course you can't go as wild with the amount of dialogue as you would if it was only text.
I think when you write a game and you know it's going to be voiced, you kind of adapt your writing to that, if I'm making sense.

Of course in this specific case there might also be the same thing with models. Re-using models rather than creating new ones probably takes less room.

[Dallen]

My only issue with Season 3 is I fear they will continue the whole "Max has psychic powers!" bit on to future seasons. Don't get me wrong, its a cool idea and interesting gameplay mechanic. However, its a drastic character change for the Max we all already have come to love over the years. They should keep max has having an importance to the puzzles. I just don't know if using a drastic character change is such a great idea.

That and its annoying having to switch to Sam in order to reposition Max if something you want to cast on isn't in view.

[Hayden]

LOVE
Everything.

That's right, I have no complaints whatsoever. 'The Penal Zone' and 'The Tomb of Sammun-Mak' are my two favourite Sam & Max episodes yet. They even outdo 'Chariot of the Dogs', which I thought was an absolute classic. I dunno, I just really like the whole feel of season 3 so far. It's hard to put my finger on the reason; whether it's the writing, the locations, the characters, the storyline, the deeper plot, the glimpses of darkness (end of episode 2), the puzzles, the psychic powers or the brilliant interface and gameplay, I don't know, but I've never enjoyed playing Sam & Max as much as I have in The Devil's Playhouse. I really hope that Telltale continues whatever it is their doing to make this season so great because I'm loving it.

[guitarsareboring]

Originally Posted by Dallen

My only issue with Season 3 is I fear they will continue the whole "Max has psychic powers!" bit on to future seasons.

I don't think they will, I suspect the powers will be all wrapped up and explained by the end of the season.