Did Curse destroy Monkey Island?

[MonkeyMania]

Well there's nothing you can do about it. It was what it was. Let's move the franchise forward.

[Hayden]

Originally Posted by MonkeyMania

Well there's nothing you can do about it. It was what it was. Let's move the franchise forward.

This.

I liked the old series, I like the new series. Let's forget all the bull and just enjoy the Monkey Island of today.

[Epic Kiwi]

Seriously* though, Guybrush is a criminally insane mental patient who murdered a bunch of people inside a pirate ride at a theme park. Monkey Island is his escape from reality and himself, and all the characters he meets represent the people he's killed (except for Elaine, who is his psychiatrist trying to help him remember who he truly is). This is the only logical explanation.

Monkey Island 2 spoilers: The revelation at the end of MI2 that LeChuck was Guybrush's older brother Chuckie is meant to show Guybrush remembering a horrible event from his childhood that lead him to go insane, most likely involving him being somehow responsible for Chuckie's brutal dismemberment. The act of ripping the arms and legs off the voodoo doll (killing Chuckie) and then getting lost in a fantasy amusement park represents Guybrush's descent (down a mental "hole" aka Big Whoop) into madness and delusions after his brother's death. Elaine's line (paraphrased here) "I hope LeChuck didn't cast a SPELL over Guybrush or anything" is meant to clue us in that LeChuck (Chuckie) is the cause of the spell (Guybrush's delusions).

The dream about the dead parents and LeChuck transforming into Guybrush himself are also subtle hints.


*not really

[Griswald Goodsoup]

Did Curse kill Monkey Island?

I'd rather know an answer to this:
With the exceptional lengths it takes Guybrush to navigate to Monkey Island how is it that mere piratey tourists (with a desire to be transformed into the undead via a Voodoo enhanced Theme Park) are able too so easily?

Maybe that is but another secret of Monkey Island...

[allaboardfilms]

Did Curse destroy Monkey Island? Absolutely not. Did it change monkey Island? Perhaps a little bit, but not in a bad way, certainly not destroying it in any capacity.
The first MI game I'd ever played was LeChuck's Revenge. To be honest, the game scared me a bit, especially with the catacombs scene, the atmosphere of Scabb Island, etc. I felt more distressed with the game than amused and entertained by it. This didn't seem like the Monkey Island games I'd read about for years.
And then came Curse. HERE was that game. This was the game that hooked me on Monkey Island. Why? What was it that felt so different about this game? The style. It was beautiful. Gone was the distress from the graveyard and tunnel, and here was the jaunty thrill of the sea battles and the rollercoaster.
I find it a bit disheartening that Curse can't be talked about without mentioning MI2. It doesn't seem to be given a fair shake.

[Nosehair]

Originally Posted by Epic Kiwi

Seriously* though, Guybrush is a criminally insane mental patient who murdered a bunch of people inside a pirate ride at a theme park. Monkey Island is his escape from reality and himself, and all the characters he meets represent the people he's killed (except for Elaine, who is his psychiatrist trying to help him remember who he truly is). This is the only logical explanation.

Monkey Island 2 spoilers: The revelation at the end of MI2 that LeChuck was Guybrush's older brother Chuckie is meant to show Guybrush remembering a horrible event from his childhood that lead him to go insane, most likely involving him being somehow responsible for Chuckie's brutal dismemberment. The act of ripping the arms and legs off the voodoo doll (killing Chuckie) and then getting lost in a fantasy amusement park represents Guybrush's descent (down a mental "hole" aka Big Whoop) into madness and delusions after his brother's death. Elaine's line (paraphrased here) "I hope LeChuck didn't cast a SPELL over Guybrush or anything" is meant to clue us in that LeChuck (Chuckie) is the cause of the spell (Guybrush's delusions).

The dream about the dead parents and LeChuck transforming into Guybrush himself are also subtle hints.


*not really

THIS is the secret of Monkey Island.*

* or not.

[Poppycock]

Originally Posted by Epic Kiwi

Seriously* though, Guybrush is a criminally insane mental patient who murdered a bunch of people inside a pirate ride at a theme park. Monkey Island is his escape from reality and himself, and all the characters he meets represent the people he's killed (except for Elaine, who is his psychiatrist trying to help him remember who he truly is). This is the only logical explanation.

Monkey Island 2 spoilers: The revelation at the end of MI2 that LeChuck was Guybrush's older brother Chuckie is meant to show Guybrush remembering a horrible event from his childhood that lead him to go insane, most likely involving him being somehow responsible for Chuckie's brutal dismemberment. The act of ripping the arms and legs off the voodoo doll (killing Chuckie) and then getting lost in a fantasy amusement park represents Guybrush's descent (down a mental "hole" aka Big Whoop) into madness and delusions after his brother's death. Elaine's line (paraphrased here) "I hope LeChuck didn't cast a SPELL over Guybrush or anything" is meant to clue us in that LeChuck (Chuckie) is the cause of the spell (Guybrush's delusions).

The dream about the dead parents and LeChuck transforming into Guybrush himself are also subtle hints.


*not really

Bravo. I'm totally replaying the series, with belief that Guybrush is a murderer.

I have always believed, however, that Guybrush was trapped in Lechuck's theme park. If the ending had been reality when Guybrush was a little boy, why would Chuckie's face go all crazy & green?

[Neumi]

I think all 5 Monkey Island parts have their own charmes.

Sure, the first 2 were quite close to each other, Curse was the return of a Saga, Escape was a experiment. The controls of Escape were terrible, but the story and riddles were ok. TOMI fits nicely into the line.

Game series evolve, change, there is nothing to do about this.

We can't expect the same style of games over 20 years.

Monkey Island will go on if they can think of another way to bring LeChuck back.

[Hayden]

I don't actually think that LeChuck is necessary for the next MI game. There is no point including him if they can write a good story without him. I think it's time to give him a bit of a rest for the next game, to prevent the games from getting repetitive.

[Javi-Wan Kenobi]

I think a good idea for a future game could be having an entirely new main villain (not LeChuck in any of his incarnations, not even someone working for him or wanting to revive him) for most of the game, and LeChuck being revived accidentally at the end of the game, so the last chapter is Guybrush and that new villain working together to defeat LeChuck

[Ash735]

Originally Posted by Javi-Wan Kenobi

I think a good idea for a future game could be having an entirely new main villain (not LeChuck in any of his incarnations, not even someone working for him or wanting to revive him) for most of the game, and LeChuck being revived accidentally at the end of the game, so the last chapter is Guybrush and that new villain working together to defeat LeChuck

That's my idea that I outlined Months ago, the Three Teams thing, with LeChuck gone, there are now many more Pirates rising to be the "new" LeChuck, so lots of attacks, Sword Fights, etc, with the game pretty much falling into three groups, a Group of Pirates lead by Guybrush, a Group of Pirates lead by Largo LaGrande fixated on the fact that they want to get to Monkey Island and Revive LeChuck somehow, and the last group lead by the new main villain, who's that demented, he wants to pass through the gates of Big Whoop on Monkey Island to seal his fate as LeChucks replacement.

[Javi-Wan Kenobi]

Originally Posted by Ash735

That's my idea that I outlined Months ago, the Three Teams thing, with LeChuck gone, there are now many more Pirates rising to be the "new" LeChuck, so lots of attacks, Sword Fights, etc, with the game pretty much falling into three groups, a Group of Pirates lead by Guybrush, a Group of Pirates lead by Largo LaGrande fixated on the fact that they want to get to Monkey Island and Revive LeChuck somehow, and the last group lead by the new main villain, who's that demented, he wants to pass through the gates of Big Whoop on Monkey Island to seal his fate as LeChucks replacement.

You said that on the forum? I surely must have missed that message, sorry.

[MonkeyMania]

Why does LeChuck need an upgrade in every single game?

[Javi-Wan Kenobi]

That way, you need to defeat him making something different each time. As seen in MI2, root beer may work to defeat a ghost pirate, but not to defeat a zombie pirate, and so on...

[arcanedude34]

Hi, this is my first post. I'm replying to the original topic and conversation.

I played SoMI and LR as a child, and they were among my favorite games of all time, especially the latter. Something just struck, it was the perfect combination of a serious world/plot, and goofy characters that just made it unlike anything I've seen before or since.

Of course, the difference between the first two games and Curse is that Curse ramped the silliness up to eleven. Which is not to say that I disliked Curse, it's a fine game in its own way, but I can see how someone could consider it too far a departure from the previous games. However, to me it seems that it was not Curse itself that made the last few scenes (the carnival and the loooooong exposition between Guybrush and LeChuck) quite frankly suck, but rather that the team was left with the burden of trying to explain the trainwreck of a plot that was LR (to reiterate so I don't sound hateful; LR is my favorite in the series; the longlasting plot threads were weird though)

One thing that always irked me about Curse, Escape, and even Tales is the mischaracterization, especially of Elaine. In the first two games, she's a governor who is inexplicably attracted to our goofy protagonist. Never once in either game did I ever envision their relationship getting to the point it did in Curse. It just felt so... cheap. Like they needed to tack on a generic happy ending to cover up the failure of the Carnival chapters. To their credit, both Escape and Tales handle the marriage in a good, unique way. Escape has her retain the authoritarian aspect from the first two games, without being annoyingly so, and Tales takes cues from the ending of Escape and makes her into a believable and enjoyable pirate bride for Guybrush. The transition feels natural, but only taking into account her character from Curse. Basically where Curse fails most for me is completely missing the point of the character of Elaine and turning her into exactly the opposite character she was in the prior games.

Also, LeChuck becomes a significant amount goofier. I still remember my heart jumping into my throat when the toll booth lady in LR in the LeChuck costume popped on screen. He was a significant threat, a sadistic creep whose only scenes only served to exemplify his badassery. Tales also does a good job of this, especially in the last two chapters. But something about him in Curse, I dunno, it just seems like they put him in because the game needed a big showdown. He didn't really do anything.

Anyway, that's just my two cents.

[SHODANFreeman]

Originally Posted by arcanedude34

Hi, this is my first post. I'm replying to the original topic and conversation.

I played SoMI and LR as a child, and they were among my favorite games of all time, especially the latter. Something just struck, it was the perfect combination of a serious world/plot

Here's where you lost me.

[arcanedude34]

Serious meaning... well, a kidnapped damsel held hostage by a ghost in any other circumstances would strike me as a darker plot. It's really only the characters of the first two games that add the camp.

[Chyron8472]

Originally Posted by MonkeyMania

Well there's nothing you can do about it. It was what it was. Let's move the franchise forward.

Originally Posted by Hayden

This.

I liked the old series, I like the new series. Let's forget all the bull and just enjoy the Monkey Island of today.

Agreed.

I suspect that had CMI not been made, Ron himself would never have gotten around to making any more MI games. Ever. This means that we wouldn't have CMI (which I love,) we wouldn't have Tales, and we also wouldn't have Dominic Armato or Earl Boen's voices for their characters.

[Ghost82]

Originally Posted by Chyron8472

The real MI3? The end to MI2 was stupid and, aside from what CMI explained, neither Ron nor anyone else ever explained it more than to say it was a joke. Besides, CMI is the real MI3.

Agreeing 100%. I love MI saga, but the first time I played the LCR end I was really pissed. I was expecting a more 'epic' ending, meaningful and revelating. The story is a full crecendo full of incredible details. It's a perfect story. So the end, on the first moment, was a big dissapointment to me.

Maybe they could have kept the secret of MI hidden and all the Big Whoop affair too, but providing a better end (and still open if they wanted). The first time I played it I had the perception that this game was ended quickly with no clue on what was gonna be the end. Doubting between revealing all the stuff or keeping some info for future releases.

I'm pretty sure that a part of this end was Lucas Arts's fault. I can see Gilbert and Co. wanting to end the full story in 2 games and the company saying: 'NONONONONONONONO, this need to last almost one more game' .

You know, creativity vs business/money.

[feldon30]

Originally Posted by metroidreborn

In my opinion, I think Curse was the best thing to happen to the series. Don't get me wrong, Ron Gilbert is a great game designer and I love all his games and have a lot of respect for him, but there are certain plot points in Monkey Island that I didn't like that he was planning to do.

To start with, Ron said Big Whoop was never going to be elaborated on hence the name.

That definitely would have sucked. I think CMI did a great job filling in the story, even if it meant they spent all their time answering questions. I mean, being able to stand there and completely interview LeChuck about everything that happened was a fanboi's dream. Although CMI's ending, strictly sailing away was a bit of a let down. And the actual ending puzzle of the game was too easy. Win some, lose some.

Originally Posted by metroidreborn

I don't understand why Ron would put all that info in the game if it were meant to be no matter of importance at the end.

Clearly you haven't watched LOST.

6 years of mysteriies and most of it remains unanswered or unused backstory just to confuse us. In the end, all that mattered is people lived and died on an island, had bizarre adventures, tortured each other a lot, eventually the immortal bad guy who was causing so much ruckus was killed, and finally a new protector for the island was chosen, oh and we had a protracted season-long funeral. Hundreds of questions about the mythos remain about what were clearly just space filler, backdrop, and scenery for the characters to chew up.

I'm not saying I didn't like Lost, but I just didn't realize that all the island mysteries were just something for the characters to play against. In the end, the island mysteries were like the daily schedule of a family on a sitcom. Do we really care if Bobby and Sally were going to yoga or pilates? But Lost made the island, the mythos important. Just like X-Files made aliens and unexplained phenomena important.

The actual "here's what really happened" storyline of Lost could have been told in a 2 week miniseries in front of a green screen.