Over 50 puzzles?!

[doodinthemood]

I do not get the two stances "from what we have seen so far, it is a rip off" and "from what we have seen so far, it is clearly not a rip off".
We have seen practically nothing so far.

[taumel]

Originally Posted by Harald B

And taumel, I'll just quote myself from another thread for you.

Thanks for this information, then they are already aware of it. I think there is a great difference in throwing some puzzles at an audience or integrating the right puzzles nicely into the story (or making the story/situation breed the riddles). The later involves much more work but also is the more pleasing product. If you design this correctly you'll end up with an adventure, otherwise it's a puzzle pack with some mostly annoying click away dialogues.

[The Highway]

Originally Posted by doodinthemood

I do not get the two stances "from what we have seen so far, it is a rip off" and "from what we have seen so far, it is clearly not a rip off".
We have seen practically nothing so far.

well, we have seen screenshots and the developer feature...

[Linque]

Having puzzles that are separate from the gameplay world doesn't mean that it's a rip-off of Layton. Let's wait and see how the game really plays to determine how much of Layton the game is mimicking.

[doodinthemood]

Originally Posted by The Highway

well, we have seen screenshots and the developer feature...

Yup. Definitely not enough really. We definitely don't know enough to rule out the possibility it will just be a rip off, or the possibility that it won't be.

[Fury]

Originally Posted by doodinthemood

Yup. Definitely not enough really. We definitely don't know enough to rule out the possibility it will just be a rip off, or the possibility that it won't be.

Well, the puzzle screen is identical to Layton.

[The Highway]

Originally Posted by Fury

Well, the puzzle screen is identical to Layton.

No it's not: There aren't two screens.

[Fury]

Originally Posted by The Highway

No it's not: There aren't two screens.

The top screen is just the description of the puzzle.

The actual puzzle bit is identical in layout and word choice.

It's a ripoff. It can still be awesome, in fact I think it will be, but it's inspiration is obvious.

It's like saying the Classic Controller Pro isn't a PS3 controller because it has Wii written on it and the home icon is blue.

[jeeno0142]

I'm not convinced it is a rip off. Yes, the inspiration is Layton, they've admitted as much.

The way I see it is that someone had to make the first racing game, now there's hundreds. That doesn't mean they're all the same and ripping off from one another. I think it's the same with Puzzle Agent.

[Fury]

Originally Posted by jeeno0142

I'm not convinced it is a rip off. Yes, the inspiration is Layton, they've admitted as much.

The way I see it is that someone had to make the first racing game, now there's hundreds. That doesn't mean they're all the same and ripping off from one another. I think it's the same with Puzzle Agent.

There's a difference between having a similar style of gameplay and having exactly the same. The HUD in the two games is the same. The art style is different, but that's it so far.

Puzzle Agent is claiming it's going to have puzzles integrated into the story. I doubt that it can be done with 50 puzzles. Layton had a fair number of puzzles integrated into the story, it was only really the bonus puzzles or puzzles given to you by people on the street that were random. There were a lot of plot related puzzles, Puzzle Agent's shining feature has already been done by Layton.

You guys can defend it all you want, but it's obiously a rip off. It could still be freaking awesome though. Which was why I bought it an hour after it was announced.

[GinnyN]

Originally Posted by Fury

There's a difference between having a similar style of gameplay and having exactly the same. The HUD in the two games is the same. The art style is different, but that's it so far.

It's like saying everything is a rip-off of Shakespeare, when Shakespeare got all his stories from somewhere else.

A Rip-Off will be if they imitate everything from the source. They just have a similar Gameplay, and that it, far we know. That doesn't make them a Rip-Off just because they decided to use 1 thing from the game. Why they cannot?

[Fury]

Originally Posted by GinnyN

It's like saying everything is a rip-off of Shakespeare, when Shakespeare got all his stories from somewhere else.

A Rip-Off will be if they imitate everything from the source. They just have a similar Gameplay, and that it, far we know. That doesn't make them a Rip-Off just because they decided to use 1 thing from the game. Why they cannot?

I think we need to see more before we make a decision if it's a ripoff. But for what we've seen, it's freakishly similar.

Gameplay is the same, the puzzle screen is identical and it has the same hint system. It has different music and graphics though, but that's all we've seen.

I assummed the Puzzle Agent page would have been updated by now. No-one's gonna buy it if they know nothing about it. There's been like 10 screenshots and a developer interview, that's hardly the way to create hype.

[GinnyN]

Originally Posted by Fury

I think we need to see more before we make a decision if it's a ripoff. But for what we've seen, it's freakishly similar.

Gameplay is the same, the puzzle screen is identical and it has the same hint system. It has different music and graphics though, but that's all we've seen.

You're saying is too soon for calling it a Ripoff, so, not do it until is released!

[Fury]

I'll post judgement when it's out, but for now, it's a ripoff until I see otherwise.

[SHODANFreeman]

Since when does using the same mechanics as another game make something a "ripoff"? If it used the same mechanics, same storyline, same art style, same everything, that would be a ripoff. If you want to go down that road, every game Telltale has ever made is a "ripoff", since they didn't invent point and click. Actually, pretty much 90% of all games ever made are ripoffs by those standards.

[taumel]

From what is known yet i don't have the feeling that it will be a ripoff, not unless you want to call the majority of the video games beeing ripoffs.

[Maratanos]

Originally Posted by Tor

Exactly. Remember back when the first FPS games were coming out, and everybody called them "Doom clones"? (Related graphic)

I must say, I am struck by the clarity by which this this post single-handedly destroys Fury's argument.

[DarkStar Runner]

50 puzzles, eh?

Hmm... I suppose I can try the game out. I'll at least have to play the demo.

[Fury]

Originally Posted by Maratanos

I must say, I am struck by the clarity by which this this post single-handedly destroys Fury's argument.

The thing is though, Doom was a radical reimagining of how video games worked, and created a new genre. However, the first few games were ripoffs of this formula.

The puzzle genre already exists, Layton didn't really do anything new. It was pretty much a point and click adventure game, but all the puzzles were well.. puzzles.

Although you can say ripping off a game is creating a new genre, in the majority of cases it's wrong. Luxor is a Zuma ripoff, although technically you could call Zuma a genre now, so it's not a ripoff. It's just getting silly.

It is ripping off most of Layton. There's no denying it, even the developers cited Layton as their source of inspiration.

As a huge Layton fan however, I'm really looking forward to this game.

[Harald B]

That's all nice and well, but you should keep in mind that "ripoff" is not a neutral term. It's a very derogatory qualifier implying inferior quality and a complete lack of originality. We would hardly be having this discussion if you would use a more neutral word like "clone" instead.