303 too easy and short

[Hassat Hunter]

1. Nope, isn't part of the solution at all. Didn't see the poke hint connection either. And how can you forget the dinosaur?
2. Wait? That was actually useful for something? I thought it was some cut content stuff too (mentioned such in my review). I think we kind of have the option to complain about puzzles if we can completely be oblivious to a puzzle being present at all...
3. And the solution you mentioned in 1, opposed to the animatronic (which was my first thought when thinking of city too, but no option to use rhinoplasty).

[Falanca]

Originally Posted by Hassat Hunter

1. Nope, isn't part of the solution at all. Didn't see the poke hint connection either. And how can you forget the dinosaur?
2. Wait? That was actually useful for something? I thought it was some cut content stuff too (mentioned such in my review). I think we kind of have the option to complain about puzzles if we can completely be oblivious to a puzzle being present at all...
3. And the solution you mentioned in 1, opposed to the animatronic (which was my first thought when thinking of city too, but no option to use rhinoplasty).

1. It is the part of the solution, as Papierwaite did record his own voice to guide the tourists as there IS an animatronic of a beast destroying the city. When it's not seen, Sal looks for another beast destroying another city. Simple as that, it's part of the solution. Poke hint connection; Sal has to make the gorilla angry, there is an animatronic which you should poke its fingers to activate, so there is a record of Papierwaite telling tourists to poke its eyes, which can be used for Sal to poke gorilla's eyes instead.
Yes, I forgot the dinosaur one, but it may be just there to fool players into misbelieving that it's a part of puzzle, as you said. So it's still part of the game. Wow, I dodged that one hard...
2. Yes, you can actually complain about it. Still I think this season is more of an experiment, so I'm pretty sure they'll get the feedback and try to do something about it. I don't think they got any complaints about puzzles solving theirselves before, so it wasn't expected for them too.
3. I actually used your saying on this one in the first part, sooo... I'll just use a silly smiley.

o.ô

[Hassat Hunter]

1. Ah. I can see what you mean now, but I was more thinking about that along lines on the device.
They didn't need to animate the animatronics for those to work. And yet they did. And that had no gameplay function.

I think the point it all boils down is that the museum set was awesome (albeit small), but got underutilised for the amount of work that obviously went into it.

[Falanca]

Originally Posted by Hassat Hunter

1. Ah. I can see what you mean now, but I was more thinking about that along lines on the device.
They didn't need to animate the animatronics for those to work. And yet they did. And that had no gameplay function.

I think the point it all boils down is that the museum set was awesome (albeit small), but got underutilised for the amount of work that obviously went into it.

I still think it had the most gameplay function it can have in a graphic adventure game.

Yes, museum was small. But a lot of people doesn't think about the broad upper level segment where Max's brain is kept. Although this place didn't have anything to do except for some little dialouge, but it's still a place to count.

[Marty]

I must admit they didn't milk the museum for all its worth. Usually big places like that get recycled (or inovated in future episodes) beyond recognition. It may make a return.

[thom-22]

Originally Posted by Falanca

[spoiler]Like you, a lot of people are making wrong assumptions EVEN after playing the game because they missed a critical aspect of a puzzle yet they were able to solve it by pure luck, and then start talk about the game's difficulty while they're oblivious about those more detailed aspects of such puzzles.

But that's exactly the problem -- lack of complexity in the puzzles leads to a higher likelihood of solving them by pure luck. That you can go back after finishing and fiddle around to see the details does not counteract the criticism that they were too easy in the first place.

Originally Posted by Falanca

I'm sorry for Telltale Games too, as I think the whole thing is purely disrespectful to them.

I'm sure TT is grown-up enough to understand that no matter what they do, someone is going to dislike it. It's not like they gave us the game as a gift. We paid money for it and the fact that it gets criticized is just commerce as usual. Besides, at least some of those who are saying it was too easy, myself included, are also saying that they truly loved the game, for all its other strengths.

[Psy]

It's not like we're sitting around saying WELL PTOOEY ON YOUIE.

The people involved with writing and designing episodes pay attention to what people talk about liking and not liking. That's not to say that every time we see a suggestion on the forums we're going to take it immediately... Just that we can take feedback and use it wisely


So if you hated the episode and wish we'd never do anything like it again, feel free to say so! And if you loved the episode and want us to make them all the same way, say that too! (Most of you already are anyway >_>)

[serializer]

Originally Posted by Falanca

A) Giant monster attacking the city was the part of the puzzle where you trick Sal poke space ape guard's eyes. Pharoah's eyes are also somewhat part of the puzzle, because it gives the idea of 'poking something's eyes'. Yog Soggoth's stand was for the other puzzle you have to solve to make Skunkape and Papierwaite angry at each other. And, there is no more animatronic.
B)You're missing a lot of things. After blinding Skunkape, hitting him and making him go one step back, if you haven't made Mole people angry, they don't pull Skunkape's feet to make him fall down. If you make Mole people angry and if Sammunmak's not distracted, Sammunmak casts a spell on moles to chill them out.
C) Office was also there to hint that there is a relation between Papierwaite and Norrington. Also, for the Guybrush dance.

I don't want to be rude but, you've made a lot of opinions that don't rely on complete facts, so I have to tell you that you should fiddle around a little more before saying things.

Like you, a lot of people are making wrong assumptions EVEN after playing the game because they missed a critical aspect of a puzzle yet they were able to solve it by pure luck, and then start talk about the game's difficulty while they're oblivious about those more detailed aspects of such puzzles.

Game wasn't easy. It was detailed. It was long (not as long as the second episode) and satisfying. Everyone that says otherwise backs their talk up with 'lack of detail', whilst they weren't given a chance of actually bothering theirselves about those details. I'm sorry for them, they missed a lot more satisfaction.

I'm sorry for Telltale Games too, as I think the whole thing is purely disrespectful to them.

Ok ... where to start? As Psy has also pointed out, there's nothing wrong with giving some feedback to Telltale as to what did and didn't work for me in this episode. I'm loving the series overall and I think that is pretty obvious from my comments! Certainly no disrespect intended, and I assume none was taken.

Now, you're telling me that my opinions aren't valid even though I've completed the game, and am simply stating my opinions having done so. In what sense am I not aware of the facts of my playthrough of the same? It shouldn't require playing through a game twice to be able to state a valid opinion of it ... should it?

Ok, so there are apparently a couple of puzzles I basically completed entirely by accident, simply by clicking on everything and trying all the options. This is an area for Telltale to look at in their puzzle design, basically when there are only a small number of options it's way too easy to just click a few things and not see how the solution actually fitted together.

However there might be a couple of actual bugs with the puzzles we're talking about;


As far as I can remember, the monster/city diorama wasn't hidden when I got Sal to poke the ape's eyes. Unless I'd got Sal to hide it by clicking other options randomly. But I'm pretty sure I hadn't got him to do that one.

And, in the final fight, I'm pretty certain that Sammun-Mak had just cast the spell on the mole people, because I was actively trying all the wrong options to work out what their functions were.

This is why I didn't think these bits appeared to have any use. It now seems to me that game bugs possibly caused me to solve the puzzles far too easily.


Either way, I think that for all the beautiful design work that went into the game, there was a lot more mileage in some of the set pieces and situations, and it just seems a shame not to have taken advantage of that.

But I appreciate that it's really hard to come up with innovative, interesting and complex puzzles month after month, and not everything is going to work how the designers intended!

[Falanca]

Originally Posted by serializer

Ok ... where to start? As Psy has also pointed out, there's nothing wrong with giving some feedback to Telltale as to what did and didn't work for me in this episode. I'm loving the series overall and I think that is pretty obvious from my comments! Certainly no disrespect intended, and I assume none was taken.

Now, you're telling me that my opinions aren't valid even though I've completed the game, and am simply stating my opinions having done so. In what sense am I not aware of the facts of my playthrough of the same? It shouldn't require playing through a game twice to be able to state a valid opinion of it ... should it?

Ok, so there are apparently a couple of puzzles I basically completed entirely by accident, simply by clicking on everything and trying all the options. This is an area for Telltale to look at in their puzzle design, basically when there are only a small number of options it's way too easy to just click a few things and not see how the solution actually fitted together.

However there might be a couple of actual bugs with the puzzles we're talking about;


As far as I can remember, the monster/city diorama wasn't hidden when I got Sal to poke the ape's eyes. Unless I'd got Sal to hide it by clicking other options randomly. But I'm pretty sure I hadn't got him to do that one.

And, in the final fight, I'm pretty certain that Sammun-Mak had just cast the spell on the mole people, because I was actively trying all the wrong options to work out what their functions were.

This is why I didn't think these bits appeared to have any use. It now seems to me that game bugs possibly caused me to solve the puzzles far too easily.


Either way, I think that for all the beautiful design work that went into the game, there was a lot more mileage in some of the set pieces and situations, and it just seems a shame not to have taken advantage of that.

But I appreciate that it's really hard to come up with innovative, interesting and complex puzzles month after month, and not everything is going to work how the designers intended!

Ah, yes, you deserve an apologize. I was simply carried away because I loved the episode and the negative criticism... Yeah, I'm always childish so I couldn't handle it unlike the very creators of the game.

Your opinions are valid enough, but I was (in a rage) trying to tell you that there is still a side of the situation you haven't seen yet. Despite how rude I was, I was still trying to show you that side.

Yes, and if you ask me, it's really unfortunate for you. It's a fault in game design to make players able to actually solve the puzzle while just trying to find which does what, before trying to find a sensible order. I made a thread about it just minutes ago, pointing those out. I also think they should work on this too, because this season seems to be having too much of that kind of puzzles. And they lead to that kind of situations, so... Yeah. Sorry about that again.

[serializer]

Originally Posted by Falanca

Ah, yes, you deserve an apologize. I was simply carried away because I loved the episode and the negative criticism... Yeah, I'm always childish so I couldn't handle it unlike the very creators of the game.

Your opinions are valid enough, but I was (in a rage) trying to tell you that there is still a side of the situation you haven't seen yet. Despite how rude I was, I was still trying to show you that side.

Yes, and if you ask me, it's really unfortunate for you. It's a fault in game design to make players able to actually solve the puzzle while just trying to find which does what, before trying to find a sensible order. I made a thread about it just minutes ago, pointing those out. I also think they should work on this too, because this season seems to be having too much of that kind of puzzles. And they lead to that kind of situations, so... Yeah. Sorry about that again.

No problems, I am loving this series as well, its just such a shame when puzzle solutions don't feel quite as satisfying as they should, what with everything else being so excellent! I've added to your other thread in a bit more detail and a couple more things that occurred to me since.