Telltale Games

MusicallyInspired · 07/02/2010, 07:25 pm

Well, I for one prefer XBL because you don't have to pay tax on everything you buy. I've said it before, but to buy anything on PSN I have to buy a retail points card and pay retail tax and then pay tax AGAIN when I actually buy an item on PSN. Because of this I've not bought anything from PSN yet.

thin029 · 07/02/2010, 07:27 pm

I hate how you have to wait for the download and then wait for the installation when you want to play a new game on PSN

Oh, and it's really annoying when you're browsing the PSN store for an original PSN game and they won't offer you a demo or even show screenshots of the game, there is only text and a small icon.

SHODANFreeman · 07/02/2010, 08:42 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicallyInspired

Well, I for one prefer XBL because you don't have to pay tax on everything you buy. I've said it before, but to buy anything on PSN I have to buy a retail points card and pay retail tax and then pay tax AGAIN when I actually buy an item on PSN. Because of this I've not bought anything from PSN yet.

You don't have a credit card?

MusicallyInspired · 07/02/2010, 09:04 pm

No, I don't. Not everybody does.

tonyskate · 07/02/2010, 10:24 pm

Well, still its true, that Tales of Monkey Island would sell on XBLA good. Just take look on sales of Monkey Island SE - over 125,000 copies and it will be likewise with MI2SE this month. So ToMI would sell good, really. Atleast 50,000 copies should be problem, and that's 50,000x20 bucks, do you need calculator?

SHODANFreeman · 07/02/2010, 10:54 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyskate

Well, still its true, that Tales of Monkey Island would sell on XBLA good. Just take look on sales of Monkey Island SE - over 125,000 copies and it will be likewise with MI2SE this month. So ToMI would sell good, really. Atleast 50,000 copies should be problem, and that's 50,000x20 bucks, do you need calculator?

No one has said that they shouldn't put it there, and the CEO of the company has publicly said that it's a huge priority to port the game there. There is really no reason for this topic to continue existing.

thin029 · 07/03/2010, 06:54 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHODANFreeman

I don't want to talk about something, so no one should talk about it either.

Revenge!

SHODANFreeman · 07/03/2010, 10:55 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by thin029

Revenge!

Every view on the subject has been expressed 10 times over, there is absolutely no need to keep driving the same points into the ground for pages and pages.

Fliter · 07/05/2010, 05:50 am

@Purple Tentacle

Maybe the impression of the “know it all attitude" depends from the fact that English is not my mother tongue... And so I tend to write in less mediated way…
Moreover, just for your own curiosity, I have spent 3 years of my life working on an Academic Study regarding Marketing & Videogame Market, but no, actually now I am not employed in into the videogame market.

Anyway, I am still convinced that TT is a great Company for what concern the "contents creation" but not so great in regards of their business decisions.

I will simplify things.
TT is a Company that create niche-games based upon (more or less) popular franchises. Once they have created these contents, they obviously have to sell these contents to the larger audience possible.
For them it will be not possible to sign an exclusive deal with a platform-holder because their game are not million units sellers.
It will be also a true nonsense for them to sign a temporary-exclusive-deal with a platform-holder, because games (also the biggest franchises) as products will tend to lost their day-one-appeal once released on the other platforms, performing otherwise worse sales results in respect of a simultaneous release.

In order to achieve the goal of selling the same "niche content" to the wider audience possible, the only way to go for them is to be a multiplatform developers. It is quite simple.

So for TT it will be THE ABSOLUTE PRIORITY to develop an ENGINE that could perform “real-time” conversions between the different platforms. But after so many years in the business, it seems that they still haven't realized this simple fact. How can we call this situation? Do you agree that this is a very BAD business decision?!?!

Then let's speack about MI.
Monkey Island is a VERY popular franchise. It seems that the special edition has outsold (in terms of units sold) all the previous TT games released on XBL. It is a franchise much more popular and loved than S&M and W&G. Furthermore while S&M franchise is now around for a while, at the time we haven't new MI games in years.

Again one years ago they could have also enjoyed and shared the hype & the marketing efforts of the Special Edition, and maybe the need of people for more & new monkey island games.

It is more difficult to sell an year old game now. It will be more difficult when it will be 2 year old. So TOMI has waste a HUGE sales potential. And, again, this is THE MOST BAD business decision a Company can do.

Let's go ahead. Again, if I HAVE to sold the contents I have create, my first goal it would be to try to make the contents accessible to a larger audience possible. And so where?!? XBL, ITunes, Steam, PSN etc… Do I have limited resources (as I have not a multiplatform engine even if I am a multiplatform company)? Well, I try to have these content avaiable on the better MARKETPLACEs first!!!
This does not means that you do not have to release the content on PSN too… But at least work on priority!!! And for better marketplaces I mean (at least) the ones that grant the best overall sales results and higher number of people active on it (and people that have paid a subscription can be considered quite active...).

Then, if you have a peculiar problem with the technical infrastructure of a determinate marketplace (for ex. no possibility of episodic contents etc…) at least gives your potential customers some love & create in advance the expectation the future release by stating that this particular version will be released as a unique game as soon as (gives a release date!!!) all the episodes will be released on the other platforms... Not doing this is a BAD business decision!

As for my personal business plan I will try AT FIRST to sell MORE of the great assets/contents that I have already developed and I have ready-to-go in house. Let’s call it optimization. Waste money is never a good business decisions. And TT in its history have wasted a lot of money with their underperforming sales (for whay I have told before).

In the end maybe I'm not nice to you. Sorry for that.. I also can understand that maybe you feel a sort of unconditioned love for TT. But this is not my case. All I have stated before are really simple and obvious considerations & facts that, to me, unfortunately bring to the same conclusion: TT are great content creators but they made a lot of business mistake and very bad business decisions.
And you do not need to be a Marketing Guru or a Business Genius to note that!

Didero · 07/05/2010, 07:11 am

Their engine is already multi-platform, since they've released games on all platforms, and they make all of them with their Telltale Tool. But just having the game for a certain platform is only the start. You need to bugtest the game entirely on every separate platform, increasing the time required linearly for every extra platform. Then you need to work out deals with the platform owners (in the case of consoles), again increasing the time and cost for every extra platform.
With their monthly release schedule, they just can't do too many platforms at once. You can already see it a bit with 'Sam & Max Season 3'. Originally, they aimed to release each episode simultaneously on four platforms (PC, Mac, PS3 and iPad). Since the iPad version didn't run too well, they already had to drop that for simultaneous release. The episodes have had a few more bugs than other TT seasons, possibly because they have to release for three platforms at once each month, instead of the one they were used to previously.
So 'just make the engine multiplatform' is far too simplified.

MusicallyInspired · 07/05/2010, 07:18 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fliter

much text

None of this makes me believe any less that you're a know-it-all.

Fliter · 07/05/2010, 08:14 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Didero

Their engine is already multi-platform, since they've released games on all platforms, and they make all of them with their Telltale Tool. But just having the game for a certain platform is only the start. You need to bugtest the game entirely on every separate platform, increasing the time required linearly for every extra platform. Then you need to work out deals with the platform owners (in the case of consoles), again increasing the time and cost for every extra platform.
With their monthly release schedule, they just can't do too many platforms at once. You can already see it a bit with 'Sam & Max Season 3'. Originally, they aimed to release each episode simultaneously on four platforms (PC, Mac, PS3 and iPad). Since the iPad version didn't run too well, they already had to drop that for simultaneous release. The episodes have had a few more bugs than other TT seasons, possibly because they have to release for three platforms at once each month, instead of the one they were used to previously.
So 'just make the engine multiplatform' is far too simplified.

I agree with you! my reasoning is far too simplified but this is my basic premise! It will be such a more complex argumentation!
But again I still believe that this semplification serve the purpose...

And about the engine, I believe that TT need a "real time" multiplat engine (just like CryEngine or UE) that is able to port a content in real-time over the different platforms...

And about all the costs you are talking about... well to me they should be called investments...

Fliter · 07/05/2010, 08:16 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicallyInspired

None of this makes me believe any less that you're a know-it-all.

You are right.... Too much text!!!

alexonfyre · 07/05/2010, 08:58 am

This is why I bought all three systems.

SHODANFreeman · 07/05/2010, 09:20 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fliter

And about the engine, I believe that TT need a "real time" multiplat engine (just like CryEngine or UE) that is able to port a content in real-time over the different platforms...

And about all the costs you are talking about... well to me they should be called investments...

First of all, you're referring to two of the biggest engines in the gaming development world. Those engines have MILLIONS of dollars in dev costs dumped into them, so you can't honestly expect TTG to compete with them in any fashion.

Second, there is no such thing as a "real-time" port. You don't just hit the "port" button and have it come out flawless. You will still need to have a few team members tweaking it and optimizing it for the platform, and creating workarounds for any bugs that may pop up due to differences in the operating systems, etc. The notion that all they have to do to make a port is make some kind of "port generator" is ridiculous, as the Telltale Tool is already designed to output platform specific code. They still need to put some programmers and QA the crap out of any port they want to release.

You're insanely oversimplifying the porting process.

alexonfyre · 07/05/2010, 09:25 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHODANFreeman

First of all, you're referring to two of the biggest engines in the gaming development world. Those engines have MILLIONS of dollars in dev costs dumped into them, so you can't honestly expect TTG to compete with them in any fashion.

Second, there is no such thing as a "real-time" port. You don't just hit the "port" button and have it come out flawless. You will still need to have a few team members tweaking it and optimizing it for the platform, and creating workarounds for any bugs that may pop up due to differences in the operating systems, etc. The notion that all they have to do to make a port is make some kind of "port generator" is ridiculous, as the Telltale Tool is already designed to output platform specific code. They still need to put some programmers and QA the crap out of any port they want to release.

You're insanely oversimplifying the porting process.

Another person from the "I'm a computer hacker because I can use an app I found on google" generation pwned by reality.

Purple Tentacle · 07/05/2010, 09:54 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fliter

In the end maybe I'm not nice to you. Sorry for that.. I also can understand that maybe you feel a sort of unconditioned love for TT. But this is not my case.

No, I just disagree with you and decided to discuss.

Quote:

Maybe the impression of the “know it all attitude" depends from the fact that English is not my mother tongue... And so I tend to write in less mediated way…

No, it's because you're trying to tell us how an experienced games company should do things based mostly around theory. Reading how to drive doesn't make you a good driver.

Quote:

Anyway, I am still convinced that TT is a great Company for what concern the "contents creation" but not so great in regards of their business decisions.

Ok, my point is simple. Based upon my own observations TTG has achieved exactly what they set out to do. They brought back what is essentially an unpopular type of genre. Risky business decision from the beginning, don't you think?

It would have been a good decision to bring us genres that appeal to the mass market. FPS, GTA-clones and other violent action games that we've been inundated with over the years.

Recently they updated their games engine, as shown in the newest Sam and Max series. I imagine the sales of TOMI helped greatly.

Their games are getting good reviews.

They have games on pretty much every format now. Not to mention that the frequency of games released over the year seems to be on the increase.

This isn't a love for the company, these are facts. They're growing as a company meaning they're getting something right.

From that point of view, I think they're doing well.

Seeing as the PC is where they get most of their sales and that the console market aren't nearly as interested in these types of games, surely it makes more sense to concentrate on your target audience (PC)?

Leak · 07/05/2010, 09:57 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexonfyre

Another person from the "I'm a computer hacker because I can use an app I found on google" generation pwned by reality.

Hey, the Unreal Engine is free for noncommercial projects so he could always try making a game like that himself...

np: Burger/Ink - Flesh & Bleed (Las Vegas 2010)

Fliter · 07/07/2010, 08:12 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Tentacle

Ok, my point is simple. Based upon my own observations TTG has achieved exactly what they set out to do. They brought back what is essentially an unpopular type of genre. Risky business decision from the beginning, don't you think?

It would have been a good decision to bring us genres that appeal to the mass market. FPS, GTA-clones and other violent action games that we've been inundated with over the years.

Recently they updated their games engine, as shown in the newest Sam and Max series. I imagine the sales of TOMI helped greatly.

Their games are getting good reviews.

They have games on pretty much every format now. Not to mention that the frequency of games released over the year seems to be on the increase.

This isn't a love for the company, these are facts. They're growing as a company meaning they're getting something right.

From that point of view, I think they're doing well.

This is the usual case "we are doing well..."..
But how better you could have done?

And, for sure, they have lost HUGE opportunities with TOMI.

MusicallyInspired · 07/07/2010, 08:25 am

THEY. WILL. PUT. IT. ON. XBL. EVENTUALLY. JUST. WAIT.

Now let this thread die for the love of all that is good...

07/02/2010, 07:27 pm	#82
thin029 Grim Fandango addict Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 431	I hate how you have to wait for the download and then wait for the installation when you want to play a new game on PSN Oh, and it's really annoying when you're browsing the PSN store for an original PSN game and they won't offer you a demo or even show screenshots of the game, there is only text and a small icon. __________________ http://gamercards.exophase.com/92048.png Last edited by thin029; 07/02/2010 at 07:31 pm.

07/05/2010, 05:50 am	#89
Fliter Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 20	@Purple Tentacle Maybe the impression of the “know it all attitude" depends from the fact that English is not my mother tongue... And so I tend to write in less mediated way… Moreover, just for your own curiosity, I have spent 3 years of my life working on an Academic Study regarding Marketing & Videogame Market, but no, actually now I am not employed in into the videogame market. Anyway, I am still convinced that TT is a great Company for what concern the "contents creation" but not so great in regards of their business decisions. I will simplify things. TT is a Company that create niche-games based upon (more or less) popular franchises. Once they have created these contents, they obviously have to sell these contents to the larger audience possible. For them it will be not possible to sign an exclusive deal with a platform-holder because their game are not million units sellers. It will be also a true nonsense for them to sign a temporary-exclusive-deal with a platform-holder, because games (also the biggest franchises) as products will tend to lost their day-one-appeal once released on the other platforms, performing otherwise worse sales results in respect of a simultaneous release. In order to achieve the goal of selling the same "niche content" to the wider audience possible, the only way to go for them is to be a multiplatform developers. It is quite simple. So for TT it will be THE ABSOLUTE PRIORITY to develop an ENGINE that could perform “real-time” conversions between the different platforms. But after so many years in the business, it seems that they still haven't realized this simple fact. How can we call this situation? Do you agree that this is a very BAD business decision?!?! Then let's speack about MI. Monkey Island is a VERY popular franchise. It seems that the special edition has outsold (in terms of units sold) all the previous TT games released on XBL. It is a franchise much more popular and loved than S&M and W&G. Furthermore while S&M franchise is now around for a while, at the time we haven't new MI games in years. Again one years ago they could have also enjoyed and shared the hype & the marketing efforts of the Special Edition, and maybe the need of people for more & new monkey island games. It is more difficult to sell an year old game now. It will be more difficult when it will be 2 year old. So TOMI has waste a HUGE sales potential. And, again, this is THE MOST BAD business decision a Company can do. Let's go ahead. Again, if I HAVE to sold the contents I have create, my first goal it would be to try to make the contents accessible to a larger audience possible. And so where?!? XBL, ITunes, Steam, PSN etc… Do I have limited resources (as I have not a multiplatform engine even if I am a multiplatform company)? Well, I try to have these content avaiable on the better MARKETPLACEs first!!! This does not means that you do not have to release the content on PSN too… But at least work on priority!!! And for better marketplaces I mean (at least) the ones that grant the best overall sales results and higher number of people active on it (and people that have paid a subscription can be considered quite active...). Then, if you have a peculiar problem with the technical infrastructure of a determinate marketplace (for ex. no possibility of episodic contents etc…) at least gives your potential customers some love & create in advance the expectation the future release by stating that this particular version will be released as a unique game as soon as (gives a release date!!!) all the episodes will be released on the other platforms... Not doing this is a BAD business decision! As for my personal business plan I will try AT FIRST to sell MORE of the great assets/contents that I have already developed and I have ready-to-go in house. Let’s call it optimization. Waste money is never a good business decisions. And TT in its history have wasted a lot of money with their underperforming sales (for whay I have told before). In the end maybe I'm not nice to you. Sorry for that.. I also can understand that maybe you feel a sort of unconditioned love for TT. But this is not my case. All I have stated before are really simple and obvious considerations & facts that, to me, unfortunately bring to the same conclusion: TT are great content creators but they made a lot of business mistake and very bad business decisions. And you do not need to be a Marketing Guru or a Business Genius to note that! Last edited by Fliter; 07/05/2010 at 05:53 am.

07/05/2010, 08:58 am	#94
alexonfyre Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Atlanta; New Orleans Posts: 243	This is why I bought all three systems. __________________ On Sam & Max Season 2, Episode 2: Moai Better Blues der_ketzer: I really hate everything about this episode. The music, the babies, the puzzles. It's really a horrible nightmare. Brenden(S&M Designer): We finally have a quote for the back of the Wii box I also have mixed feelings about one of the more desireable jobs in this world, it bears the title "S&M Designer"

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Click'n'Drag: S&M vs TOMI	Bloody Eugene	Sam & Max Series Discussion	4	04/19/2010 12:03 pm
I Love ToMI so far!	Agetian	Tales of Monkey Island General Discussion	3	10/20/2009 06:55 am
Problems with ToMI 3 - [issue-21670]	clairelc	Game Support - General	4	10/10/2009 11:59 am
So, is basically TOMI for PC an oversized WII port?	Bloody Eugene	Tales of Monkey Island General Discussion	56	08/07/2009 01:33 pm
TOMI works fine on Linux using VMWare	dflock	Game Support - General	0	07/09/2009 03:34 pm

07/02/2010, 10:24 pm	#85
tonyskate Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 23	Well, still its true, that Tales of Monkey Island would sell on XBLA good. Just take look on sales of Monkey Island SE - over 125,000 copies and it will be likewise with MI2SE this month. So ToMI would sell good, really. Atleast 50,000 copies should be problem, and that's 50,000x20 bucks, do you need calculator?

07/05/2010, 07:11 am	#90
Didero Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 481	Their engine is already multi-platform, since they've released games on all platforms, and they make all of them with their Telltale Tool. But just having the game for a certain platform is only the start. You need to bugtest the game entirely on every separate platform, increasing the time required linearly for every extra platform. Then you need to work out deals with the platform owners (in the case of consoles), again increasing the time and cost for every extra platform. With their monthly release schedule, they just can't do too many platforms at once. You can already see it a bit with 'Sam & Max Season 3'. Originally, they aimed to release each episode simultaneously on four platforms (PC, Mac, PS3 and iPad). Since the iPad version didn't run too well, they already had to drop that for simultaneous release. The episodes have had a few more bugs than other TT seasons, possibly because they have to release for three platforms at once each month, instead of the one they were used to previously. So 'just make the engine multiplatform' is far too simplified.