Piracy

[Friar]

I thought it would be interesting to see your views on piracy. Do you think it's alright under certain circumstances? Completely against it? No view? What about emulation? DRM?

Personally, i think it's okay, if and only if you have bought the exact copy of the game you are pirating. Say for backup purposes, convenience (all you games in one place, for handhelds etc) or if your game disc gets stolen/lost/broken, and it isn't available in retail anymore (out of print, and not in circulation in second hand shops).

Having said that, i've only downloaded one game (excluding digital games through here and steam) in the past 3 years.

Note: Do not post links to pirating sites. Do not flame people for having different opinions to you, just civilised arguements.

[adventureaddict]

Well, let me be the first to say I do pirate things, but 90% of the time I end up buying the game afterwards. Think of it as a demo, if you will.
I wouldn't do it if demos were easily distributed.
...Also, I have a flashcard for my DS. But same thing applies, besides the fact I usually keep playing the game on the card for easy storage purposes.
Personally, I know people who pirate alot, and it doesn't bother me what they do. Alot of games I've bought because they've shown me it, and the same goes for them too. Same with movies/tv shows.

[GuruGuru214]

I admit, I probably pirate more than I'd be comfortable with if I really thought about it. However, I take a similar stance as adventureaddict. The things I pirate are generally things that aren't available to me any other way or that I can't get without paying some guy on eBay an absurd amount that the developer won't see any of anyway (which is why I don't own Escape from Monkey Island, though I am still looking for a not too expensive big box copy to buy). Also, when I do pirate something that doesn't fall into either of those categories, I make an effort to buy the game later, which is something I'm currently succeeding at. My "to-buy" list for this is empty right now.

As far as non-game media, my rules were a little more lax until recently. I started torrenting Heroes in the middle of the third season, after a friend forced me to borrow the first two seasons and got me hooked. It was the only way I had to catch up at the time. I finally caught up at the end of season 3, but I watched all of season 4 via torrent because it conflicted with other shows and the video quality was better than online streaming. However, 23 complaints from NBC Universal and my internet getting shut off for three days (though only because those complaints were going to an e-mail address that doesn't exist, so I never got them and thus never stopped what I was doing) was enough to get me to knock off that behavior.

These days, I pretty much only pirate old TV shows that don't have any sort of DVD release. At the moment, my torrent list contains Time Squad and seasons five and six of Power Rangers. Yes, I'm a sucker for nostalgia, and if I can't purchase it, I'll get it the only way I can.

[Hayden]

Originally Posted by adventureaddict

Well, let me be the first to say I do pirate things, but 90% of the time I end up buying the game afterwards. Think of it as a demo, if you will.

This is what I do with music. I download a lot of music, but I own over 170 CD's legally (and plan to buy hundreds more), and many of these I wouldn't have even bought if it weren't for the ability to download.

But, as for games, I don't pirate them at all, I just don't. I think that much more work probably goes into video games. And, unlike music, if you're going to try out a game, you have to download the entire product, which is something that I feel bad about. Whereas, with music, I'll just download a portion of the songs from an album.

[Remolay]

Originally Posted by GuruGuru214

The things I pirate are generally things that aren't available to me any other way or that I can't get without paying some guy on eBay an absurd amount that the developer won't see any of anyway

this and the newest episodes of Doctor Who. I like being able to talk about it with people from across the pond

That said, as comment on the quote: What I do this with is Super Nintendo games. Sure I could buy the new DS version or the PlayStation version (prolly not on that last one). But with the SNES I get gems like Magus: You got whacked cus you're week.

Also Radical Dreamers. Which I wouldn't be able to get at all any other way and understand it

[Friar]

Originally Posted by GuruGuru214

I admit, I probably pirate more than I'd be comfortable with if I really thought about it. However, I take a similar stance as adventureaddict. The things I pirate are generally things that aren't available to me any other way or that I can't get without paying some guy on eBay an absurd amount that the developer won't see any of anyway (which is why I don't own Escape from Monkey Island, though I am still looking for a not too expensive big box copy to buy). Also, when I do pirate something that doesn't fall into either of those categories, I make an effort to buy the game later, which is something I'm currently succeeding at. My "to-buy" list for this is empty right now.

As far as non-game media, my rules were a little more lax until recently. I started torrenting Heroes in the middle of the third season, after a friend forced me to borrow the first two seasons and got me hooked. It was the only way I had to catch up at the time. I finally caught up at the end of season 3, but I watched all of season 4 via torrent because it conflicted with other shows and the video quality was better than online streaming. However, 23 complaints from NBC Universal and my internet getting shut off for three days (though only because those complaints were going to an e-mail address that doesn't exist, so I never got them and thus never stopped what I was doing) was enough to get me to knock off that behavior.

These days, I pretty much only pirate old TV shows that don't have any sort of DVD release. At the moment, my torrent list contains Time Squad and seasons five and six of Power Rangers. Yes, I'm a sucker for nostalgia, and if I can't purchase it, I'll get it the only way I can.

I ended up downloading Escape last night (which is why i made this thread), as i had lost my PS2 version (i think my mum threw it out...), plus the convenience of not having to have th disc in the drive. It was the first game i'd pirated in 3 years (and probably my first non-snes/GB game)

[Armand1880]

Hmmmm....
I feel bad about being a pirate. I have downloaded games before. Usually they are action games I think I might like, and I use them as demos. If there is a game I know I want, and I keep track of during development, I will buy it when it comes out (any Telltale games, Star Wars stuff, lots of stuff on Steam, adventure games and the like...) - the games I torrent are ones I think look interesting but might not actually enjoy enough to invest time or money into. 90% of the games I've torrented I've played for 5 minutes, and never touched again and deleted (I remember a time when I bought games at Gamestop - Theif: the Dark Ages era - bought games all the time that I just, "Didn't like" and they let me return them for full credit...those were the days).
And if there is a game I play that I absolutely love, I'll buy...but not all the time. Most of the time if I like a game I'll play through it, and toss it.

I have downloaded music CDs in the past. I had a horrible DRM experience once: I bought a CD, and the album would not let me rip it to my hard drive. I tried for a long time and discovered it was part of the CD's DRM. I got mad and stopped buying CDs for a long long time. But now with the price of Amazon's mp3 store being so low, I've been buying them for the past year or so happily (see what happened there publishers? See what your DRM did?!)

The other thing I will download is TV shows. I don't watch too much TV, but I usually download the shows that I love watching, but missed the night before. If I can't Hulu it (Office, 30 Rock, Modern Family) I'll download it. I've also been downloading the latest season of the IT Crowd that is showing on the BBC in the UK right now. I've bought the previous seasons, and I'm downloading these until the DVDs hit the US, then I'll buy.

Do I feel bad about this? Sometimes. Will that stop me? No. Why? Because I won't play Assassin's Creed 2 with Ubisoft's ridiculous DRM, and chances are, I won't play the new Prince of Persia with their DRM this way ...so I'll have to wait until someone cracks with a torrent site. Would I buy it if the DRM were simpler and less restrictive. Hell yeah! I love those series. But the DRM is pushing me away. When I pay for a game/CD/movie, etc..I want to use it however the hell I want, and I will keep it within my household. but Ubisoft will point at something like this post and say, "SEE! THIS IS WHY WE HAVE TO DO WHAT WE DO!!!" And I point at their DRM and say, "SEE THIS IS WHY I DOWNLOAD!"
It's a cycle that won't be broken, and why more and more games will bypass the PC and go straight for consoles (Alan Wake? So sad that didn't come to PC...would have been a day one purchase for me - hoping Red Dead Redemption makes the jump, too).
I hope the Telltale people don't hate me now...

[Fealiks]

Piracy is one of those subjects where it's extremely difficult to determine the morality of the action.

It seems to be victimless because we can't see the immediate effects and any effects it does have are contingent - nothing actually happens is a result of piracy. The main effect is that potential money isn't made (and sometimes money is lost). Because of the absence of a quantifiable outcome, it's easy to write off the damages as non existent.

I do pirate things from time to time, but I try to do it with a certain amount of thought. Games, for example, are usually off-limits unless it's a very successful game. This is because it's MUCH harder to make money from games compared to, say, movies. If a game grosses $1M, it's a huge success. If a movie grosses $1M, it's a huge flop.

I find it more favourable to download pirated movies since it isn't quite as damaging, but it's still worse to download movies that haven't done well at the box office.

As for music, I don't have as much of a problem with downloading it. An album takes much less work, money and pain to produce than movies or games do, so any loss isn't too bad. It's also better, in my opinion, if an artist makes money touring and through promotion rather than through record sales.

[der_ketzer]

Originally Posted by Friar

I thought it would be interesting to see your views on piracy. Do you think it's alright under certain circumstances? Completely against it? No view? What about emulation? DRM?

Piracy is okay if the data you pirate is no longer sold. Abandonware? I have no idea.

Emulation: Is piracy unless you own the original game and create the module etc. from your legal copy. E.g. ScummVM used with a legal version is not Piracy ihmo. (I last had to use it for the games in the Kings Quest Collection and the Space Quest collection I bought on steam).

DRM: There are DRM concepts that I personally don't mind. (Steam or the Ubisoft DRM) and others that make me avoid a game (3x install limitations and similar things and since I know steam even a simple disc-check).

[SHODANFreeman]

I buy as much as I am financially able to buy, of everything I like. I own multiple versions of several of my favorite films, albums, and games. I would only ever consider piracy if I absolutely could not afford to buy something, but would still very much intend on buying it as soon as I had the money to do so.

[corruptbiggins]

I do download US TV shows though only the ones that are hard to see over here. I would much prefer to buy them on DVD, when (or indeed even if) they become available but I just simply cannot afford to do so. If a show I've been downloading airs on a channel here that I'm able to receive (without having to pay much more to do so) then I stop downloading it and watch it normally through my TV.

[der_ketzer]

Originally Posted by corruptbiggins

I do download US TV shows though only the ones that are hard to see over here.

Same here. There are DVDs for those shows but they have a different regional code. The show I am pirating is not even broadcasted here. Not even a translated version.

[Ignatius]

In here, and all latin america in general, it's basically the norm.

I remember being little and my parents giving me as a present some game in a box of floppies, and me thinking that was the only and normal way of buying games (and in fact right there and at that time, it was).
I got the sense that in other countries people selling pirated stuff are well hidden, and acting like a drug dealer, while in here you got people selling movies in the street next to a policeman or games being exposed at hardware stores.

Anyway, now wherever you are, it's more evident how buying digital goods its more like an option rather than the only thing to do. In the past you bought a game or a cd because it was the only thing you could do, now you buy something because you support it or because you tell yourself its the right thing, but not anymore because its the only way.
It's complex,
For now, piracy seems unstoppable and if the equilibrium of people downloading and people buying remains it will be all good, but if it grows to become a real threat then some things will have to change. Internet it's making a lot of business models to mutate. Only time will tell.

[BoneFreak]

I really hope internet police don't track people with this...

But, I do it with music, and games that are ONLY unavailable. There are some pretty old classics out there, and I don't want to start hunting on ebay. (other games end up not working, and I end up buying them, however) I do it with music because my family doesn't really get CDs anymore, and also people will end up putting whole albums on Youtube, which means millions of people listen to their favorite songs for free as well.
I also do it with movies, only because DVDs are just pushing the price of a $7 movie ticket to a $20 DVD.

The only reason people want to stop piracy is only so that they can make more money off of their merchandise. Is it really a win-win situation with piracy at an end? No, it's not. We (the consumers) would lose money, and then corporations would all get it.
It's more of a win-win with piracy, as we don't spend as much, and they gain a good amount of money.

Piracy would be completely useless with games if companies had you access them only from an online system. Say, Telltale Games?

[Irishmile]

I work for the FBI you are all in trouble now.... Just kidding.... ARRRRR!!

[Alcoremortis]

Originally Posted by BoneFreak

$7 movie ticket

Whoa! That's cheap! I want to live wherever you live. I just went to go see an animated movie on Sunday and it cost me $14. And it was a normal movie theater (not one with a pre-show and stuff). They didn't even have a student discount. Now I'm grumpy. Stupid high cost of living...

[Irishmile]

its $8.75 + $3 for 3D where I live... This Mexican restaurant I live near has a deal where for $25 you get two dinners, two drinks, and two movie tickets its actually a really great deal..... And the food is really great.

[Alcoremortis]

The $14 was for non-3D. I don't even want to think about what it would have been for 3D. From now on, I'm going to take the twenty minute drive to a different theater that is $9.50 for students. Still expensive, but I feel better only spending one ten dollar bill for some reason.

[BoneFreak]

Originally Posted by Alcoremortis

Whoa! That's cheap! I want to live wherever you live. I just went to go see an animated movie on Sunday and it cost me $14. And it was a normal movie theater (not one with a pre-show and stuff). They didn't even have a student discount. Now I'm grumpy. Stupid high cost of living...

$7 is the student discount..

And could we please stay on topic?

[Irishmile]

I think the cost of a ticket is directly tied to the topic... so its on topic.