What's your theory about the ending of Monkey Island 2 - LeChuck's Revenge?

[Chyron8472]

Originally Posted by Chyron8472

There are people who say that Ron Gilbert says that CMI got off track with the Guybrush+Elaine relationship, while I believe that it's Revenge's depiction of their relationship that doesn't fit, rather than CMI.

I do understand and can agree with the idea that, in Revenge, Elaine may have been hurt by Guybrush's insensitivity, but that still doesn't sufficiently explain [...]why Ron would say that she sees Guybrush more as a little brother when she might as well have said she loved him and wanted to have sex with him in the first game when she came to rescue him after being thrown off the dock. This doesn't sound little-brother-ish to me.

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[Farlander]

...

Well, I guess that Luke and Leia both wanted to have sex at one point too.
I just see Ron Gilbert as a 'gaming Lucas' in this matter - he creates stuff on the move.

[Chyron8472]

Leia only kissed Luke in Empire just to annoy Han. The peck on the cheek in A New Hope doesn't really count. Also, storytelling-on-the-fly still doesn't explain Ron saying that Elaine thinks of GB kind of as a little brother when she made overt sexual advances toward him in Secret.

Besides that, saying Ron Gilbert is like the George Lucas of gaming isn't really a positive comparison, since though Lucas had a wonderful imagination in creating Star Wars, he is however terrible at implementing it directly. Most people say Empire and Jedi are the best movies, and that can be largely attributed to the fact that Lucas wasn't the director for either of them.

[Farlander]

Leia only kissed Luke in Empire just to annoy Han.

Well, I'm pretty sure, at least, the Luke wanted to have sex with her when he saw her in that hologram in SW4 I mean, he's a young guy, who can blame him?

Besides that, saying Ron Gilbert is like the George Lucas of gaming isn't really a positive comparison, since though Lucas had a wonderful imagination in creating Star Wars, he is however terrible at implementing it directly. Most people say Empire and Jedi are the best movies, and that can be largely attributed to the fact that Lucas wasn't the director for either of them.

Yeah, if you take comparisons too literally.
But really, both Ron and Lucas have good imagination and understanding of what they're doing, both wouldn't have done a timeless classic without the help of others (in case of Ron, it's Dave's and Tim's collaboration which actually turned Monkey Island into Monkey Island we know), and both would make not very good attempts in their respecitve fields if they would decide to be the sole 'creator' which everyone should listen to. The only difference is that Ron is smart enough not to (I'm sure while creating DeathSpank he listened to other people), and if he ever would decide to go '**** it, I'm making MY OWN Monkey Island game (Monkey Island 3?)', then it wouldn't be good. Oh, and both create stuff on the fly. So really, I think of it more as of a realistic comparison than a negative one.

PS. And RotJ is not a really good movie Aside from the tensioned duel between Luke and Vader. And even those moments are spoiled by the stupid Palpatine. Personally, I would never go as far as to think of calling it 'best'.

[danvzare]

I've just reacently noticed that Big Whoop is the spitting image of booty island, if you look carefully you can see that the buildings are the same shape and are in the same place, but with things added too them, you can also see a giant S at the furthest right corner of Big Whoop which clearly belongs to Stans, although it does lack the lights.

I just thought I should mention this it's up to whom ever reads this what it mean.

[crashboy765]

I think LeChuck put a spell on him that made him think hes a child, (Like Kiss of the Spider-Monkey in CMI) but I can't think of why Guybrush returns in a bumper car with 2 heluim balloons.

[coolsome]

Originally Posted by crashboy765

but I can't think of why Guybrush returns in a bumper car with 2 heluim balloons.

A really wild party?

[Polychrome]

I think the problem with Luke and Leia is they literally WERE brother and sister.

Thing is, no matter what Monkey Island game we're talking about, Elaine does seem to have this belief that she has to "babysit" Guybrush. Even when they're together, very rarely does Elaine talk to him as if they're on the same level.

Admittedly a pretty bizarre foundation for a relationship, but Guybrush seems to go for that kind of thing, so...

Whatever floats your boat, eh?

I think a few of us have memories of assorted ship debates from assorted media, and the argument of "younger sibling" is usually used to express purely platonic relationships. But Guybrush and Elaine have never been platonic. Even so, Elaine does treat Guybrush much as one would expect an older sister to treat a kid brother. We also have a few reasons to believe that Elaine is a few years older than Guybrush. Just wondering, maybe we aren't supposed to be taking Ron Gilbert so literally?

Edit to Add: De Ja Vu? I find myself suddenly reminded of a big debate from the fandom of Avatar: The Last Airbender. In the second season finale, Katara holds a nearly-dead Aang in an obvious parody of La Pieta. Ship debates went nuts, as some people took this as Katara being Aang's surrogate mother and not a romantic interest. (Completely missing the religious/symbological point of the scene, of course.) It is true to a point that she is very motherly toward Aang, but taken in context, she's very motherly toward everyone, to the point that the characters spend an entire episode making fun of her for it.

[coolsome]

Originally Posted by Polychrome

Elaine does seem to have this belief that she has to "babysit" Guybrush. Even when they're together, very rarely does Elaine talk to him as if they're on the same level.

lots of cartoons and fictinal works with comedic styles take this angle in romance and marrage. Like Simpsons and Kim Possble

[Rather Dashing]

Originally Posted by Sailorcuteness

lots of cartoons and fictinal works with comedic styles take this angle in romance and marrage. Like Simpsons and Kim Possble

The problem is that they kind of jumped into this four installments in. If anything, this idea that Elaine has to watch over Guybrush like a parent treats her child may be the only new element from Escape that made a lasting effect on Tales, and I personally think it's ultimately an unwelcome and cheap way to throw in easy-to-write laughs based on sitcom-style relationship comedy that rarely leaves the characters feeling "real". Granted, Monkey Island is by no means a gritty, realistic drama, and it contains its share of caricatures, but these particular caricatures for two of the main characters feels like weak writing. More than that, this aspect of their relationship seems to have been artificially manufactured recently, and it doesn't really feel like a part of their interaction pre-Escape.

[ChingisKan]

Maybe the whole analogy would work better if we bumped the ages up to adolescence and young adulthood.

Like, anyone ever consider maybe that Guybrush might be a bumbling teenager in high school instead of a young boy as portrayed in MI2? And LeChuck might be in college as a freshman or sophomore. Considering his personality, he might be a quarterback for the college football team. A real stud and jock sort. Elaine's the redhead to die for and the leader of some planning committee or another that has a some noticeable on the lives of the students on campus. Something attractive to LeChuck.

Guybrush and LeChuck have never really been terribly abrasive until Elaine came over to babysit - or "escort" - Guybrush. Why? Despite being a generally well-behaved boy, he does have a tendency to be clumsy, and he does have a talent for petty thievery. Elaine's supposed to make sure he doesn't get into any trouble, or hurt or kill himself.

But she's kind of... impressed... by his bumbling self and his boyish good looks. (And he does get good grades, too, so he's more absent-minded than stupid.) So she comes to be tantalised by Guybrush, and infatuated. This, of course, irritates LeChuck and makes him want to kill Guybrush.

[JanetK]

My theory is, that it all was a big dream. The little boy had while being on the ride. Gilbert once said he himself was influenced by the disney ride. That's why there are coincidial stuff in the Johnny Depp movies "pirate of the carribean": Gouvernor's Daughter, Dog with keys in prison, voodoo lady etc.

[Reaper Lyn]

Honestly, I just took the ending of MI2 at face value. Guybrush really was relating the entire game back to Elaine, and then he fell down into the catacombs below Dinky Island. He "beat" LeChuck with the voodoo doll, but then LeChuck "revealed" himself to be Guybrush's little brother, and tricks him into thinking that he's just a little kid at an amusement park. But it's all an illusion by LeChuck. This would explain the weird dream sequence, too - it was something LeChuck planted into his head to make him think about his parents, which was reinforced when he saw the skeletons at the Lost and Found and assumed it was his parents. They were all little things that LeChuck crafted to make Guybrush doubt what world was really "real". Like Inception.

The fact that Elaine showed up at end of the game, and wondered if Guybrush was in trouble/cursed, is enough proof for me. As for why Guybrush apparently spent the time between MI2 and CMI in an actual, tangible Carnival of the Damned... er, I don't really know. Your Mind Makes It Real?

[boumbh]

There are a lot of anachronisms in the two first Monkey Island: The T-shirts, the grog machines, the costume shop, the maintenance tunnels and room, the underground ticket (E-ticket)...

Booty Island (whith the costume shop) and Big Whoop entrance can be superposed:


I think that if you only play SoMI and MI2, the child's mind is the most likely theory.

In an interview, Ron Gilbert said that he would love to make an other MI and share his secret with the world. I would love that too ...

In my dreams, Telltales would announce the development of MI3 Prime - The Revelation, the Ron Gilbert non cannon version. I wouldn't mind if it's an old SCUMM based point and click adventure game if it can lower the development costs (actually, I would even prefer ).

It could start right after the end scene of MI2, Guybrush suddenly runs away, parents and Chucky stands puzzled, finally Chucky decides to go after him. Guybrush enters an attraction with his E-ticket (Chucky doesn't have one). Then, progressive transition back to the dream realm: For example Guybrush climbs a ladder and emerge from the hole where Elaine is waiting, but the screen is "half dream, half real". Guybrush doubts. Elaine manage to convince him that he was cursed by LeChuck, take his hands, Guybrush closes his eyes, and when he opens them again, there is no confusion => Back to a pirate adventure. During the game, more and more anachronisms, some of them makes Guybrush very uncomfortable. In the end, the world become very unstable, sometimes, Guybrush go back in the theme park... In reality, Elaine could be a girlfriend, or a even an action figure/doll (shock! in porcelain! shock! shock! That could explain something, if porcelain reminds him that he is in a dream...) that Guybrush forgot in the end of MI2...

Obviously, this can't be what Ron Gilbert had in mind, his secret is still secret, unfortunately...

[doggans]

Since Ron, Dave, and Tim sorta laugh off the twist-upon-twist ending in the commentary, I think it would be really, really funny if Ron's MI3 was never even going to have an explanation for MI2's ending.

[Farlander]

Originally Posted by doggans

Since Ron, Dave, and Tim sorta laugh of the twist-upon-twist ending in the commentary, I think it would be really, really funny if Ron's MI3 was never even going to have an explanation for MI2's ending.

Actually, that's pretty much what CoMI developers should've done. The explanation made it worse, not better.

[boumbh]

Originally Posted by Farlander

Actually, that's pretty much what CoMI developers should've done. The explanation made it worse, not better.

I liked the CoMI introduction, with Guybrush on a bumper car, I really enjoyed the game too. But we all know that the given explanation was not the one Ron Gilbert intended. My only problem is that I am too curious . I would like to know what was in Ron Gilbert's mind about the Secret of Monkey Island. And that has nothing to do with CoMI or latter Monkey Island games.

Ron's MI3 doesn't exist and sadly probably never will. Maybe he just wanted to fool us all (that's also likely). If Ron's MI3 was never even going to have an explanation for MI2's ending it would be fine too. At least we would know that Ron's secret of MI is actually that there is no secret ...

[Hayden]

Am I the only one who thinks that the similarities between the to backgrounds can possibly be attributed to laziness?

[Trenchfoot]

Yeah, or budget issues.

[boumbh]

Originally Posted by Hayden

Am I the only one who thinks that the similarities between the to backgrounds can possibly be attributed to laziness?

For sure, it could be. We won't know. But the fact that the Costume Shop is a huge place of anachronisms appears quite puzzling to me. Would Booty island be a place where the limit between dream and reality is fuzzy? Could it be possible that Ron's MI3 rebooted on Booty Island?