POKER NIGHT: Poker rules issues in game

[EternalStar]

I wonder if I can replicate this weird happenstance. I had a round where someone with a King High beat someone with a pair of something (can't remember what it was.) Is there any time in poker where a high card can beat a pair?

[furrykef]

Originally Posted by EternalStar

Is there any time in poker where a high card can beat a pair?

No, that's just yet another instance of the side pot confusion we've been talking about. The second-best hand will win a side pot if the winning hand is not allowed to contest the side pot. If this side pot is larger than the main pot, then, for some strange reason, the game announces the side pot winner as the winner of the hand, but the main pot and side pots are still awarded correctly to the respective players.

[Harald B]

If Telltale decided there's only time to announce one winner per round, it would be better if the game just called the one who, y'know, actually has the best hand; regardless of who is in what side pot, I mean. There would be a lot less confusion that way.

[phil035]

ok playing the game about to take out the heavy we both go all in i have pair 5 he had a 2 4 i had 5 6 the flop was K 5 10 8 7.
can some1 tell me how he won and another one was 2 full houses both the same but one person takeing more of the pot??

would like answers to these

[Klaad]

Hello again,

Has anyone ever experienced the situation where a player with 0$ would still stay at the table for several rounds, being given no cards, only staring at other players...?

Pic here

I should add that Max and Tycho should have left the game together, but for some reason Max is still here. Also, the side-pot displayed on the screen comes from the previous round. It looks like that Max is waiting to be awarded the side_pot, which may happen the next time a round involving the side-pot occurs, I don't really know as it's my current game... What do you think about it?

[jp-30]

@Phil, When you go all in, you get unexpected results called due to the side pot bet, though everyone gets the correct amount of winnings. Have a look through this thread and you'll see some better explanations of what's happening.

[winternet]

Heavy went all in with 2000, tycho called, I went all in with 21 something thousand, tycho folds, heavy wins, I lose all my money. What the ...?

[Arodin]

Originally Posted by Jake

Did Max only put in $400, or was that the amount he raised after checking you? (as in, when he "raised $400," to your $5000 bet, did you see $5,400 disappear from his chipstack?)

Yes, 5400 came out of his chipstack, meaning he called the 5000 and raised 400 more. This is not a legal bet. The raise must be at least the amount of the previous bet, meaning his options in that situation is to call 5000, fold, or raise to at least 10000. Raising 400 more in that situation is nonsense.

Here's a link and quote from wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_h...ing_structures

In no-limit hold 'em, players may bet or raise any amount over the minimum raise up to all of the chips the player has at the table (called an all-in bet). The minimum raise is equal to the big blind. If someone wishes to re-raise, they must raise at least the amount of the previous raise. For example, if the big blind is $2 and there is a raise of $6 to a total of $8, a re-raise must be at least $6 more for a total of $14.

[Harald B]

It looks like that rule only applies to reraises, not regular raises. Didn't you say Max raised 400 over your initial bet of 5000? That would still be legal, provided the big blind was less or equal to 400.

[winternet]

My poker name doesn't change (strange in my opinion), some graphics problems (chips staying in the middle of the table for no good reason) some blinds and pot issues ( doing all-ins larger than your opponent might result in losing all the money). These are the main problems I found.

[furrykef]

Originally Posted by Harald B

It looks like that rule only applies to reraises, not regular raises. Didn't you say Max raised 400 over your initial bet of 5000? That would still be legal, provided the big blind was less or equal to 400.

We've already discussed the subject to death in this thread. Robert's Rules of Poker (which is the most popular rule set, but this particular rule is observed in virtually all rule sets) says it applies to any raise. It's item #6 under "betting and raising" on this page.

I'm editing the Wikipedia article to match the standard rule.

[serializer]

Originally Posted by phil035

and another one was 2 full houses both the same but one person takeing more of the pot??

Sounds like the same issue I had, where 6 cards are being taken into account to decide a winner...

[furrykef]

Are you sure it was six cards and not a side pot issue?

[ExoByte]

Originally Posted by HoboStew

Good catch, I cant believe nobody saw this! I am fining myself $10,000. I hope we get a chance to fix that, we will see. Not really up to me unfortunately.

Given that this thread is full of bugs i reported when TellTalePoker first launched in '05, i wouldn't get super excited about your time frame.

[Arodin]

Originally Posted by serializer

Sounds like the same issue I had, where 6 cards are being taken into account to decide a winner...

How is that even possible? There's no such thing as a hand made up of six cards. Did someone get a six of a kind?

*edit*
Oh I see what you mean, two hands the same, but it appeared to use a sixth card kicker? More than likely there was a side-pot. I've played through about 10 tournaments, and I haven't encountered any of these issues people are reporting. I suspect a lot of these bug reports may stem from a misunderstanding of poker rules.

[furrykef]

Originally Posted by Arodin

I've played through about 10 tournaments, and I haven't encountered any of these issues people are reporting. I suspect a lot of these bug reports may stem from a misunderstanding of poker rules.

All the "pot goes to wrong player" reports come from a misunderstanding of the rules (granted, the interface makes it very easy to misunderstand what's going on). The issues with raising less than the minimum and with the blinds/betting order being incorrect when heads-up definitely do exist and are definitely not misunderstandings of the rules.

[serializer]

Originally Posted by Arodin

Oh I see what you mean, two hands the same, but it appeared to use a sixth card kicker? More than likely there was a side-pot. I've played through about 10 tournaments, and I haven't encountered any of these issues people are reporting. I suspect a lot of these bug reports may stem from a misunderstanding of poker rules.

Well, I'm absolutely certain there was no side pot in this case. I play poker most weeks with a bunch of friends so I would kind of notice if that was the case. I totally concede I could have just misread the hands, but I'm fairly certain it's happened more than once. I'll keep an eye out and try to get a screenie if it happens for definite.

I think a major problem is perhaps that when the winners are announced, the final cards only seem stay on the screen for a couple of seconds, so it can be hard to look at all the cards and check whether the winner was correctly called. It might be easier if the cards stayed on the screen until "Deal Next Hand" was clicked, then there'd be time to double-check whether rules were being honoured!

Originally Posted by furrykef

All the "pot goes to wrong player" reports come from a misunderstanding of the rules (granted, the interface makes it very easy to misunderstand what's going on). The issues with raising less than the minimum and with the blinds/betting order being incorrect when heads-up definitely do exist and are definitely not misunderstandings of the rules.

I agree most or all cases are down to this, but compounded by the cards not remaining on screen. As someone who has played quite a bit of poker, I'm still not able to read all the hands that fast every time. I can only imagine how difficult it could be for a total novice to understand what's going on! At least when playing in RL, someone who's fairly new can say "hold on, why did that person win?" and everyone can stop and explain the hand that just happened.

[Arch Evil Angel]

I had an issue where it was just Heavy and I. The cards on the table made a straight of spades (pardon my lack of poker terminology) that had an Ace in it. Heavy had nothing in his hand, and I had an Ace. The game automatically assigned my hand to be a pair of aces while Heavy got a straight. And, before you ask, no, there was no side pot. Anyone else experience something like this?

[furrykef]

Originally Posted by Arch Evil Angel

I had an issue where it was just Heavy and I. The cards on the table made a straight of spades (pardon my lack of poker terminology)

You mean a flush?

Maybe he had a spade in his hand that gave him a better flush? It's impossible to tell what happened if we don't have a screenshot...

[SultS]

I did lose a pot as well, when me and Heavy both had the same full house, but he had better hole cards (that didn't come into play and shouldn't matter). There was no side pot.
On the other time we had identical hand again, this time three of a kind with shared kickers, the pot was split between us.