Game too easy/ short/ lacks puzzles Thread

[JPhilipp]

I just finished Back to the Future episode 1 in one session, and felt I didn't need to think quite enough for this to be satisfyingly challenging.

First of all, I'm a long time adventure game player and finished many of the classic Lucasfilm games, and I am definitely appreciating how TellTale is making these games much more casual these days. I think that's great… I *want* to play through a game in just some days and I don't want it to be as incredibly hard as some of the very old adventure games were (like the ones before the original Monkey Island in the 1980s). I did enjoy the level of difficulty of Monkey Island tales 1. Ideally, you get stuck a couple of times, but you will then find a solution after a lot of thinking. TellTale gives some of the sweetest products to gamers these days -- fresh adventures!

[Spoilers ahead!]

However, with Back to the Future 1, I found it was often just a matter of using whatever you just acquired with whatever new object or person was already around. For instance, if you find a rocket, then the bike is already standing there. The inventory is very limited, there's little to no red herrings, inventory items cannot be combined. Even if you're completely lost it usually is just a matter of clicking through the three combinations or so which you end up having. Limited maps -- for instance, just being able to crawl on a driving car -- create even less room for creative puzzle solving. I do enjoy easier parts and limited maps in such a game, by the way, it can be a great relief to have a little bit of an easier part to deal with. But if it's all too easy, then it feels more like you're just watching a movie, required to click here and there, without much "heureka, that's what I should try!" moments.

Often, the most straightforward click was already good enough for the game to progress (sometimes, to the point of feeling like a bug: for instance, I couldn't even use the tape recorder with the metal pipe in the soup room to create the clanking sound, yet when I then clicked the pipe directly, Marty took out that same tape recorder, at least I think it was that, and clanked on the pipe!). Some theoretically cool puzzles, e.g. make the dog find someone by giving them a shoe, were almost ruined because *the shoe was that very single item you just picked up anyway and the dog was already standing there*. You almost automatically use the two together without as much as 5 seconds of thinking. Thus this theoretically good puzzle was almost "thrown away" by the game. (And the dog puzzle was then repeated with other objects, getting even less challenging.) Giving the shoe to the dog should be at the end of a thought process done by the player -- "OK, I have rooms X and Y and Z and items 1 and 2 and 3 and characters A, B and C, what makes sense to do now? think, think, think!" -- but not delivered to you on a silver plate.

As it is, it was all over too quickly and didn't have enough depth. I didn't really get stuck once. I didn't really feel like I had to really "get to know" a certain environment, room, set of tools, or character, to be able to solve a puzzle; I didn't have to prove myself worthy to be able to win. Things where I did make a mental note later weren't needed after all (e.g. the number of times to hit on the pipe, not to say that this would have made a well puzzle in anyway -- just as a minor example). I didn't feel like I did anything truly superbly creative, and often that was because whatever I did was pretty much the only choice in that situation anyway given so few items and characters, so even if it was smart it was more a smart plot in the game (e.g. record the voice to get grandpa to come downstairs), but not smart puzzle solving.

What to do to create a great level of difficulty? I suppose that's the toughest question to answer, as both making it too easy or making it too hard might put off players on either end. Perhaps there's still room for a great invention here, an approach that scales with the player by dynamically adjusting puzzles based on how many minutes players play without achieving "solved something" points. Lacking this, I guess a good hint system as well as an option to play through an easier version of the game, could allow for making the game a bit easier for those who want it yet allow for other gamers to play a more satisfyingly challenging adventure. Perhaps then the higher-difficulty players could have more items to play around with, longer solution combo requirements, more open maps, a way to combine items, and generally less thinking "done for them" (the puzzles should still make sense, of course, and not just be plain confusing and odd to be tough; the game should be *smarter* when playing it at high difficulty). I wish TellTale good luck in figuring this out for future games and hope they're listening to feedback.

Just to add, I still enjoyed the game, and think TellTale is doing very good jobs here with their work, and I will buy the next episode. It was still a fun game.

[Andorxor]

You already bought the next episode.

[JPhilipp]

True! Thanks for the reminder. I will have to pay extra on the iPad though right? (I played Tales of Monkey Island on the iPad, a nice experience!)

[Gman5852]

Yeah this was telltales easiest episode to date no doubt about it.

[SANAFABICH]

What about conversations? No difficulty AT ALL. You often had 3 or 4 choices and you just had to try them all until you found the right one and that was it. In other games, conversations often had 4 or 5 levels of depth that you had to figure out to advance to the next one.

[Gman5852]

Once again telltales easiest game.

It seems telltale got everything the bttf fanbase wanted.
And nothing the adventure gamers wanted.

[PedsterUK]

I agree, it was very easy... I got stuck in ToMI & S&M, but not in this except the rocket drill puzzle, which was a physical reaction issue rather than difficulty, took me hours to do (being someone with a disability with limited dexterity)

Great story though.

Just hope Ep2 will be longer?

[PedsterUK]

Originally Posted by serializer

Edit: haha, just read to the end of this thread

If you meant my post, then yeah, it was funny "I thought you were a scientist?" etc - I know that whole dialog off by heart now, just like the film's :P lol!

[corruptbiggins]

Just because it is easy doesn't mean it's a bad game. I for one still loved playing it.

[JPhilipp]

Just because it is easy doesn't mean it's a bad game.

"Heureka" moments -- i.e. your good thinking and only that getting you to progress -- are at the core of adventure games. If future games continue to be as easy as this one there may be a point at which gamers tell themselves, "There's no reason for ME to participate in playing this game if the game basically plays itself." It may start to feel like a "fake" adventure game: a guided tour through what could have been a real adventure game.

[Guinea]

Originally Posted by mightypirate

I really, really, really loved the story in the game, but the puzzles were really too easy! It was like watching a movie, and sometimes there was a pause where I had to click somewhere. I'm sorry but the best way in which I can describe this is by quoting Ron Gilbert

From http://grumpygamer.com/2152210


The point is that I'm loving BTTFTG like a movie, but not as a game.

It's incredible that Ron Gilbert already saw this problem coming in 1989.

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by Gman5852

Once again telltales easiest game.

It seems telltale got everything the bttf fanbase wanted.
And nothing the adventure gamers wanted.

Couldn't have summed it up any better. I was actually just talking to my cousin down in Florida tonight about this game as we used to play all the old school adventure games when he would visit including all the Sierra and Lucasarts series. He was asking if it was any good and I told him the best way I could sum it up is that its an adventure game for people that hate adventure games. He said he would wait and maybe buy it if the latter episodes become more difficult.I told him not to hold his breath as obviously Telltale is seeing dollar signs with these new licenses. We might see a little bit of an increase but I dont think adventure gamers are going to see anywhere close to the game they want to see.

[Rocnael]

I don't really see the problem with the difficulty to be perfectly honest.
Some of you are comparing BTTF to Sam and Max, but it's not perfectly fair.
Sam and Max's puzzles (and Monkey Island's and Strong Bad's) tend to be fairly weird. You have to think outside the box to beat these games. Not with BTTF.
BTTF's puzzles are more straightforward. They make more sense. And that's really because of the franchise.
Sam and Max/Monkey Island/Strong Bad are "cartoony". BTTF is "realistic" (nothing to do with the artstyle, I'm talking about the universe). Therefore, the puzzles in BTTF are "realistic" and easier.

[JPhilipp]

Therefore, the puzzles in BTTF are "realistic" and easier.

I respectfully disagree with this theory. In my opinion, puzzle difficulty is independent of how whacky the game plot is (provided the player has a base understanding of what's actually happening, story-wise, but that should be the case for most parts of any game, and if not you can still provide a goal-hint system; besides, if you think of it, the plot in BTTF *is* pretty whacky). In fact, good puzzles -- even in whacky games -- still should make sense, or we'll be frustrated because a) good stuff we try doesn't work and b) nonsensical stuff does work but we don't understand why.

IMO the real problem with too-easy puzzles as sometimes presented by BTTF is that the solution is often the only choice there is, because there is a very limited amount of objects, because objects cannot be combined, because multiple choice discussions can often be simply easily clicked through, because there is a very limited map, and because object-receival time and object-use time are in short distance of each other (there may be more reasons).

As an example of whacky plot with an obvious solution, take the babelfish in Douglas Adams Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: if you would have to pick up the babelfish and then put it in your ear, then that's a perfectly reasonable solution within the context of that whacky plot. So if the game would explain what a babelfish is -- "a thing you put in your ear which then translates for you" -- then it is not a hard puzzle (in fact, as whacky as putting a fish in your ear would be in real life, this wouldn't actually be a real puzzle because it would be too easy; probably, in a good adventure, there'd be some difficulty in even getting that fish).

Now, when it comes to *plot linearity*, then I partly agree with you. If one tries to create what's basically a movie with a linear movie plot, then puzzle difficulty can greatly suffer from it, because the player cannot walk around a lot and may not pick up a lot of objects. If you think of a BTTF game as basically a movie when creating it, then it could actually hurt the game part of it.

[Krohn]

It isn't about the sense of the puzzles as the lack of puzzles.

The difficulty would drastically ramp up if there were just more items you could collect(not have to, just could) and more people you could try to interact with.

This was like a hidden item game, where most of the items were removed before you started to play.

So an "Obvious item game"

[Rocnael]

Originally Posted by JPhilipp

besides, if you think of it, the plot in BTTF *is* pretty whacky).

The plot ? Sure.
I was talking more about the events and the situations.

In fact, good puzzles -- even in whacky games -- still should make sense, or we'll be frustrated because a) good stuff we try doesn't work and b) nonsensical stuff does work but we don't understand why.

Sure. I'm not denying that whacky games don't have good puzzles, just that it doesn't fit with the BTTF universe, imo, and thus makes the game easier and straightforward.

IMO the real problem with too-easy puzzles as sometimes presented by BTTF is because there is a very limited amount of objects, because objects cannot be combined, because multiple choice discussions can often be simply easily clicked through,

Fair enough.

because there is a very limited map, and because object-receival time and object-use time are in short distance of each other (there may be more reasons).

Both of those (the second being in direct relation with the first) can easily be explained by the fact that it's only the first episode and Telltale will expand on the map in later episodes (as they usually do).

[JPhilipp]

Originally Posted by Rocnael

Both of those (the second being in direct relation with the first) can easily be explained by the fact that it's only the first episode and Telltale will expand on the map in later episodes (as they usually do).

And let's hope the difficulty will increase in future episodes. If that's the way TellTale is going about it -- an easy first episode with increasing level of difficulty for every episode, more objects and more rooms which you need to interact with non-linerarly -- it could be a good compromise for everyone (though they make things at least *a little* harder even for first episodes, to not put off fans). Is TellTale actually getting involved in the forum in the "too easy" discussion, what's their stance on this?

[Pak-Man]

The feeling I got from this one is the same feeling I've got from a lot of Telltale's first runs in a new franchise. Initially their focus is to try to get the right tone (Which they NAILED, BTW!) and the puzzle complexity suffers a touch. Just remember Sam and Max 101, Bone 101, Wallace and Gromit 101, SBCG4AP 101 - All very easy, and all those series panned out OK by the end.

On top of that, with the theme, it seems somewhat likely there will be some Back to the Future style running-around-while-avoiding-your-past-self, and perhaps they had to simplify it a touch to make sure we remember what our past self would be doing.

I have no doubt that by Episode 3 (It's ALWAYS Episode 3 for me) I'll be completely obsessed. Then Episode 5 will come and go too soon, making me want more more more...

[guitarbloke]

Dear Telltale,

I bought BTTF Episode 1 on Steam a few days ago.

It took me barely 1 hour to finish it.

I spent £15 on it.

That's more than I earn in 1 hour.

I love BTTF and on paper this is a great idea, however it was stupidly easy, and money-wastingly short.

I enjoyed the voice acting and the graphics are nice, but come on guys, where's the game?

Based on this, I'm not sure I really want to blow another chunk of money on Season 2.

For the first time in my life, I feel like I've been ripped by Telltale.

Yours Disappointedly

[McSuperfly101]

You do realize that you've bought the whole season right? Even if every episode only takes you one hour to complete that's still £15 for 5 hours of game time.