Kings Quest Reboot

[Datadog]

I'm fascinated by the idea of rebooting the series - but are we sticking with the royal family or new characters? Would this KQ season be five expanded episodes of Graham's first adventures through Daventry and beyond?

If you were to reboot KQ1, you could take certain parts from the original game and turn them into entire episodes. The quest for the three treasures could be stretched out over five episodes and even include him rescuing Valanice at some point. I'd certainly like to see Telltale's take on the giant in the clouds. You could turn that into a whole "Jack and the Beanstalk" episode where Graham gets to go into the giant's castle and all the puzzles would be centered around giant objects. Or have a leprechaun episode where Graham's the giant in the land of little people. There's possibilities here! Even my imagination's racing now. I want in. Somebody hire me.

[Farlander]

Well... I'm a fan of Sierra games, but... not really of King's Quest series, mostly due to Roberta's ass approach to design (ironically, I like the third game in the series very much and it IS pretty well-designed, and AFAIK it was also designed by Roberta, so I'm not saying that she's a bad one). Not to mention that KQII+ by fans, made in their spare time, is better than any of the Sierra-made KQ games, so... Yeah. I can't imagine it being worse than Sierra's KQs quality-wise, whatever each company's design philosophies are/were.

PS. Yeah, I know, KQ has technological breakthroughs on it's side and such and such, but, frankly, it's the only of their advantages over other Sierra series.

[Sinaz20]

Originally Posted by Rather Dashing

NO.

Not with this company.
Not with this direction.

Telltale
IS NOT
SIERRA.

Not even on their BEST DAY.

They do not have the design philosophy of Sierra. They do not have the humor of Sierra. They do not have the art direction of Sierra. They have never made a Sierra-style game and they have proven time and time again that a game worthy of a license that is SO INGRAINED IN THE HISTORY OF THE ADVENTURE GENRE.

And no, CONTRARY TO WHAT SOME PEOPLE MAY BELIEVE, LucasArts and, by extension Telltale, is not a BETTER ALTERNATIVE to Sierra that "fixed" and "evolved" the genre by removing all the bad aspects of it left in by Sierra. Sierra was a powerfully distinct entity, with its own philosophy and approach that couldn't be more different from the LucasArts or modern Telltale way of doing things. Until now I've been disappointed in Telltale, but now I'm absolutely livid. How dare they. THEY DON'T F@#$%ING DESERVE IT. THEY HAVEN'T EARNED IT. THEY CAN'T DO IT.

This is a disheartening diatribe. I, for one, grew up with all the quest series. I have fantastic memories of playing through them with my best friend.

Now I have the chance to continue the series-- it's some sort of inadvertent dream job that I can't believe I landed in.

I want to do this series justice. But I also want to make it fun and accessible to a wide range of players- introduce a new generation to them.

Maybe that means incorporating puzzle complexity into the actual difficulty settings so that our hardcore Sierra ex-pats will have the option to play it old school. Maybe it means finding a new strategy to art and production so we can deliver huge environments like the original games. Maybe it means toggling fail events for the casual gamers.

Whatever the case, I wouldn't want to compromise the series. That said, I also have to play for the home team-- Telltale has vision, goals, and missions that I have to consider.

Ultimately, something I really fight for since being hired at Telltale is integrity of vision. And trust me, I am a demanding fan of this license.

[Yarbskoo]

I could never see myself getting angry over something like this. I mean, The Legend of Zelda is my favorite game series. The CDi Zelda games didn't make me angry. Why? Because I don't have to play them. All those crappy Spyro games didn't make me angry. I just stayed away from them. Escape from Monkey Island didn't make me angry. Perfect Dark Zero, Metal Gear Solid 2, Final Fantasy X-2, Knights of the Old Republic II. These are all examples of games that didn't quite live up to their predecessors. They don't make me angry. Why? Because there's only one thing I care about: Is it fun? If yes, buy, REGARDLESS of how it compares to earlier games. If it's not fun, then I don't have to buy it, and my cash can be spent elsewhere. No rage. I get to keep my bank balance high, and my blood pressure doesn't have to be.

[Irishmile]

I ask the question again if not TTG who the heck would you trust Kings Quest to?

At least we know for a fact they will not try to make it an action game or something...

[MusicallyInspired]

A group that are actually wholly fans of the series whose games are designed and inspired by it....like say, AGDI/Himalaya?

[doom saber]

In my honest opinion, I think a reboot to the series is a fantastic idea. Unlike the other adventure games, the King's Quest games aged horribly with a very inconsistent direction. The first three games felt like they were for kids, the next three fel like they were for older gamers, part 7 is back to children, and 8 back to mature gamers.

The games were good at the time, but with how games progress in story, I think a reboot is much needed.

I always imagined a reboot that is inspired by Shriek would work for the KG series. Not necessarily the direction like Shriek, but the way they incorperate fairy tales into a movie for the older demographics. What I mean is that in Shriek is treated like a fairy tale in its own right. It is aware that it is a fairy tales and h as isn't afraid to make fun of itself for being such.

The original KQ series does give hints of that, but each sequel that sense of playing a game in a fairy tale world gets lost.

I would like to see the reboot that sets the fairytale type of tone. Just that it would make it much easier to explain the plot (if TT decides to keep it intact) of the first game. Something with the narration like "once upon a time in the kingdom of Davenity.." and with an opening like Disney's Robin Hood or the 2nd Shriek movie with the book and moving pictures. That is what I like to see, though whatever TT does with the KQ would probably be good.

I wonder if Graham will get a makeover? I always pictured Graham with a grey or black sleve shirt and a cape under his iconic red shirt, much like Dirk from Dragon's Lair, the hero in Quest for Glory, Prince Charmming in Shriek, or the guy in Sleep Beauty. IT just gives qa knight vibe to the character without drastically changing his appearance.

[MusicallyInspired]

Why do people always abbreviate King's Quest to KG? What's the 'G' for? I see it all the time.

[doom saber]

Originally Posted by MusicallyInspired

Why do people always abbreviate King's Quest to KG? What's the 'G' for? I see it all the time.

Chill man. It is a typo. G and Q looks similar to me.

[MusicallyInspired]

Chill? I'm fine. I was just wondering. I see it a lot. That's cool.

[Rather Dashing]

Originally Posted by Sinaz20

This is a disheartening diatribe.

I'm not sure if you are going to continue reading this thread, but I'm going to take a moment to respond to this post. Hopefully in a level-headed manner, with complete respect for you and the team as people.

First and foremost, I don't believe you can make this work. As a huge fan of Sierra and their games, I do not believe that this company wants to continue that legacy. I am not against being proven wrong, but from the get-go, my reaction to this is(to put it lightly) not good.

I, for one, grew up with all the quest series. I have fantastic memories of playing through them with my best friend.

Now I have the chance to continue the series-- it's some sort of inadvertent dream job that I can't believe I landed in.

As the first concern, this is nice to see in comparison to(for example) Dave Grossman's disdain for Sierra's entire output.

I want to do this series justice. But I also want to make it fun and accessible to a wide range of players- introduce a new generation to them.

Maybe that means incorporating puzzle complexity into the actual difficulty settings so that our hardcore Sierra ex-pats will have the option to play it old school. Maybe it means finding a new strategy to art and production so we can deliver huge environments like the original games. Maybe it means toggling fail events for the casual gamers.

Whatever the case, I wouldn't want to compromise the series. That said, I also have to play for the home team-- Telltale has vision, goals, and missions that I have to consider.

And this is the clinching point, right here. I don't believe Telltale won't compromise anything. I don't believe that you won't compromise anything. I don't believe that none of the episode directors will compromise anything. I have played every game this company has put out, and I have become increasingly disheartened with the output, with the most recent project feeling like a slap in the face. When it comes to accessibility, Telltale projects have always taken the easy way out, by making a game accessible through a complete gutting of challenge, puzzle design, and anything that might make the path from start to finish something less than a straight line on an easy path.

This isn't what the King's Quest series is about, and never was what the King's Quest series is about. The games always had challenges that required a lot of exploration and experimentation before you even really knew exactly what you had to do, let alone how you were going to go through this. Telltale's products are, until now, very heavily directed, and "story games with puzzles rather than puzzle games with story", as Grossman so quaintly puts it.

As a fan, I am upset that the company and people put in charge of this project have yet to show a strong commitment to the format of exploration and puzzle-solving that made the original games fun. I don't expect the end product to blend accessibility into the game in an organic way. If it is treated the way it is in Back to the Future, the "accessibility" of any new King's Quest adaptation will come off as a ham-fisted appeal to the lowest-common-denominator, a means of accommodating those who don't want to solve or be engaged by puzzles rather than teaching them to play the game properly. I think that being a good teacher, that showing people how to play a game without patronizing or enabling them is a very difficult balance to strike, and I don't think everyone is up to the challenge. But to take the easy route to accessibility for one of the most iconic and classic adventure series, whose bread and butter lies within the Sierra puzzle era would be a travesty. As it stands, that's what I expect.

Ultimately, something I really fight for since being hired at Telltale is integrity of vision. And trust me, I am a demanding fan of this license.

To me, "Integrity of Vision" doesn't mean anything without a vision. I don't feel like I understand an intended direction.

I'm still entirely cynical, but if you're willing to level with me and other fans with my viewpoint intellectually, I'm willing to listen(and I'm certain many others are as well). What are the pertinent visions, goals, and overall missions? What constitutes integrity of the vision, or integrity of the series?

You have to understand, I'm a fan. I'm not an investor, a marketing guy, or even some person on the street who has never heard of these things before. To me, King's Quest is a thing with a real feel, weight, and value. "Vision", goals", "missions", and "integrity" come off as empty marketing-speak. I don't like marketing speak.

I'm cynical, doubtful, and eager to listen but not eager to be convinced. What is your design philosophy, what do you hope to do with this series, who do you want to play this game, and why I should trust you? I understand that, extremely early on, not all questions can be answered, but if you wanted to uplift my spirits and enliven my hopes for the continuation of the franchise, you haven't done that. You have impressed me by reaching out to the community, even in a small way, and that's definitely a step. But if you could dispense with the nonsense and say something with weight, meaning, and that makes a fan feel like somebody actually gets it, that would be indispensable, though it is probably asking far too much from a company that has long since lost its desire to reach out to people like me, with my interests. After all, at a certain point, a company has to "carefully evaluate current marketplace realities and underlying economic considerations."

[Crow_T_Bard]

So in other words Rather Dsahing, you are ticked off that Telltale Games will not include any dead ends in their reboot.

[MusicallyInspired]

You're completely missing the mark. Stop trolling us. Come up with some valid arguments rather than these meaningless one-liners with the sole purpose of angering us. There is reasonable conversation to be had here without the constant ridiculous references to dead ends or some other over-used Sierra-bashing comments.

[Crow_T_Bard]

Sorry, first time poster. I just thought people here really need to take a chill pill and stop being so angry over a video game.

[Rather Dashing]

Originally Posted by Crow_T_Bard

So in other words Rather Dsahing, you are ticked off that Telltale Games will not include any dead ends in their reboot.

This is the definition of the Straw Man fallacy. Your remark is oft-used and oft-repeated, and it seems to exist only to incite anger rather than to open a discussion. I understand that, earlier in the thread, I showed anger, but that was an expression of it rather than an attempt to incite it, which is an entirely separate matter.

Originally Posted by Crow_T_Bard

Sorry, first time poster. I just thought people here really need to take a chill pill and stop being so angry over a video game.

By what? Interrupting the first attempt at a real dialog with an overused LucasArts fanatic sticking point in a thread dedicated to a Sierra franchise? That's hardly the way to go about it.

[Giant Tope]

Originally Posted by Crow_T_Bard

Sorry, first time poster. I just thought people here really need to take a chill pill and stop being so angry over a video game.

...which is why you came in here with an antagonistic snarky one liner?

[KuroShiro]

Things that inspire nostalgia will inevitably also inspire passion. See: people raging over stuff like Transformers/action figures.

I think that some of the concerns being voiced are legitimate. Telltale has never demonstrated a willingness to step outside of a fairly strict design philosophy in their adventure games. I think it has been pretty successful, though of course everything can be improved. The issue here is that Sierra's design philosophy was essentially the polar opposite of the one Telltale follows, i.e. death and punishment for failure.

I personally am not stringently opposed to a fair bit of revision to that philosophy: I think dead-ends are piss-poor game design, and puzzles that are essentially impossible without a hint book are also lousy. However, hard puzzles and a challenge are *not* poor game design. I remember as a kid wracking my brain for hours -- by myself or with friends -- trying to find a solution to a particularly nasty puzzle, and when I finally did the sense of accomplishment was tremendous. Telltale's games, on the other hand, I've hardly ever needed to stop and think about. I hope that this sense of challenge and accomplishment can be maintained.

Also, as MI has mentioned in other threads, I hope that TTG can maintain some of the open-endedness and sense of exploration that is such an integral part of the KQ series. I'm not a huge fan of just being tossed into a huge world with no idea of what to do, but a sense of mystery and danger is essential to a KQ game, unlike the things TTG has done so far.

In summation, I think it will be a challenge, and some compromises will have to be made, but I will maintain a cautiously optimistic stance until I see something that shows clearly that it is being taken in a more 'casual game' direction.

[der_ketzer]

Originally Posted by Rather Dashing

NO.

Not with this company.
Not with this direction.

Telltale
IS NOT
SIERRA.

Until now I've been disappointed in Telltale, but now I'm absolutely livid. How dare they. THEY DON'T F@#$%ING DESERVE IT. THEY HAVEN'T EARNED IT. THEY CAN'T DO IT.

While the sane people in my head agree with that 100% there is also one optimist that wants to give them a chance with this license. He wants to see them pull it off, make it happen and make it great.

And even if it sucks like the rest in here believes it might make one thing happen that makes me happy already. Kings Quest Series marathons by people on this forum.

Edit: They already had an episode with death scenes and it was the most enjoyable one in the whole series. I could imagine a King's Quest 7 approach where you can die but the game just rewinds a bit and will let you try again without starting over.

Originally Posted by Crow_T_Bard

So in other words Rather Dashing, you are ticked off that Telltale Games will not include any dead ends in their reboot.

Uh-oh! That last step was a doozy
What is the problem with saving your game often and in different slots so you don't have to play it all over again. Did all this auto-save bull*** in the last years make you forget about it?

I really liked the KQ1 remake in that regard. They kept all the puzzles is but asked you at the beginning if you wanted to disable dead ends. A great idea.
I also liked the idea of having alternate solutions to puzzles. Like the defeating the dragon that guards one of the treasures. Either you kill it with the golden dagger or you use the dagger to cut down a bucket and splash water over the beat. Both solutions work just fine but you lose the dagger in one of them with the result that you will not get full points in the game.
Or the bridge-troll that has one completely random solution (to me) or you can just bribe him with one of the treasures you collected on your travels. Again both solutions work, you can finish the game in both ways but only one of those solutions rewards you with the most points.

And I really liked this idea since it increases the replayability for the game. I loved finding better solutions to the puzzles I encountered and I loved to find the many deaths and even the dead ends.

[edwardkoo]

Great news! Hope Space Quest follows after it!

[Bloody Eugene]

Originally Posted by Sinaz20

This is a disheartening diatribe.

No, it's just the weight of the title you choosed to carry on.
And I LOVE to see Telltale doing King's Quest!
People is just scared, because - like you - they have sweet memories about these old games. And you have to take care about them.
For example, it's like Telltale let Sam&Max to Daedalic. They're very good, but would you trust?

I'm VERY happy you and all the Telltale keeping the graphic adventure's market alive.
I've faith you can do King's quest justice!