Exclusivity over the license.

[MusicallyInspired]

KQ7, SQ6, LSL6 and 7 I think to name a few...

[der_ketzer]

Originally Posted by MusicallyInspired

KQ7

This one had deaths but you could retry as often as you liked. (like in Phantasmagoria 2.)

[MusicallyInspired]

Yes, that's my point. All the games I listed have deaths with retries.

[Lambonius]

Originally Posted by doom saber

King's Quest 3 redux is starting to grow on me. The only AGDI title I didn't enjoy playing was KQ2+. However, both QG2 and KQ3 are fun. Perhaps it is because AGDI stuck with the main story and added new content that was present in the manual or Greek mythology,

I like how they added the journal entries from the previous slave boy.

I agree. I think that the more low key fleshing out of the game works much better at freshening up the feel of the original than the complete rewrite of KQ2+ (though I really liked that, too.) And yeah, gradually uncovering the activities of the previous Gwydion was a stroke of genius, in my opinion. It perfectly fleshes out that bit of back story while also adding a great sense of intrigue and urgency to Alexander's current plight.

[Anakin Skywalker]

Originally Posted by Lambonius

I agree. I think that the more low key fleshing out of the game works much better at freshening up the feel of the original than the complete rewrite of KQ2+ (though I really liked that, too.) And yeah, gradually uncovering the activities of the previous Gwydion was a stroke of genius, in my opinion. It perfectly fleshes out that bit of back story while also adding a great sense of intrigue and urgency to Alexander's current plight.

I think KQ2+ kind of "TSLed" the series. While they kept the tone of the classic games (unlike TSL), they attempted to tie EVERY SINGLE GAME together by shoehorning in some grand, ''epic'' conspiracy/prophecy going back 1000 years. I don't feel there needs to be a conspiracy, or a prophecy, or any of that crap. I don't even feel we need to revisit the (only mentioned in one line in KQ6) Black Cloak Society. Each KQ game was a relatively self contained story, with only a low key tie to the previous games. Even in KQIV, you didn't need to play KQIII to understand the intro.

[Olaus Petrus]

Originally Posted by Lambonius

Fair enough. I'm sorry. I'm just saying that if you liked the feel of the old VGA KQ games, you owe it to yourself to at least give AGDI's games a try. The just-released KQ3Redux in particular is probably the best fan-made game yet, by any group.

Maybe I will at some point. Unfortunately I have too little time for playing these days and at the moment Jane Jensen's Gray Matter is occupying all of that time.

Originally Posted by Anakin Skywalker

I think KQ2+ kind of "TSLed" the series. While they kept the tone of the classic games (unlike TSL), they attempted to tie EVERY SINGLE GAME together by shoehorning in some grand, ''epic'' conspiracy/prophecy going back 1000 years. I don't feel there needs to be a conspiracy, or a prophecy, or any of that crap. I don't even feel we need to revisit the (only mentioned in one line in KQ6) Black Cloak Society. Each KQ game was a relatively self contained story, with only a low key tie to the previous games. Even in KQIV, you didn't need to play KQIII to understand the intro.

I never understood why some people try to link all the King's Quest baddies, because IMHO it's just silly. There are some real connections like family ties between Manannan and Mordack, but most of the connections were either invented by the writers of King's Quest Companion or fans. In similar manner Space Quest Companion tries to link baddies like Elmo Pug and Raemes T. Quirk to Sludge Vohaul.

In both cases it's completely unnecessary and stories work better if baddies have no connection with each other, like the game designers intended it would be. Roberta and many fans have completely different views about the Black Cloak Society's importance. Personally I feel that Companions and other material like that are bit uncanonical.

[Anakin Skywalker]

Originally Posted by Olaus Petrus

Maybe I will at some point. Unfortunately I have too little time for playing these days and at the moment Jane Jensen's Gray Matter is occupying all of that time.



I never understood why some people try to link all the King's Quest baddies, because IMHO it's just silly. There are some real connections like family ties between Manannan and Mordack, but most of the connections were either invented by the writers of King's Quest Companion or fans. In similar manner Space Quest Companion tries to link baddies like Elmo Pug and Raemes T. Quirk to Sludge Vohaul.

In both cases it's completely unnecessary and stories work better if baddies have no connection with each other, like the game designers intended it would be. Roberta and many fans have completely different views about the Black Cloak Society's importance. Personally I feel that Companions and other material like that are bit uncanonical.

Roberta didn't even know there was about the Black Cloak Society until years later when fans brought it up. She recalled briefly musing over the idea of an organization which would've had ONLY Alhazred, Mordack and Manannan early in co-designing KQ6 with Jane Jensen, and Jensen later included it in the finished KQ6. It was never something she seemed to take that seriously, and note that neither KQ7 nor KQ8 so much as mentioned it.

KQ2+ and TSL seem to want to tie every single villain and event of the series to the Black Cloak Society, and weave the games tightly together, and I think having all these people and events tied together actually limits the possibilities for the story going forward and makes the universe of the series that much smaller--much like Lucas did with the Star Wars prequels (IE, Anakin creating C-3PO, meeting Boba Fett as a child and making him a Clone, having Yoda fight alongside Chewbacca in the Clone Wars, etc)

[doom saber]

Originally Posted by Anakin Skywalker

I think KQ2+ kind of "TSLed" the series. While they kept the tone of the classic games (unlike TSL), they attempted to tie EVERY SINGLE GAME together by shoehorning in some grand, ''epic'' conspiracy/prophecy going back 1000 years. I don't feel there needs to be a conspiracy, or a prophecy, or any of that crap. I don't even feel we need to revisit the (only mentioned in one line in KQ6) Black Cloak Society. Each KQ game was a relatively self contained story, with only a low key tie to the previous games. Even in KQIV, you didn't need to play KQIII to understand the intro.

This! That is a big reason why I dislike Kq2+. It tries to tie everything together like your average fanfiction. Hopefully I don't offend anyone, but I really didn't like how AGDI handle the kq2 remake and cringe if they make an official Kq game like kq2+. the whole game feels as if the developer tries to shoehorn every Kq mythology in 1 game. the game felt so convoluted with the shark fighting the mer people, the wolf men vs vampires, and the black cloak society fighting Graham. the game felt like it was trying to be this epic, grand quest. it felt too dark for me.

[doom saber]

Originally Posted by Anakin Skywalker

Roberta didn't even know there was about the Black Cloak Society until years later when fans brought it up. She recalled briefly musing over the idea of an organization which would've had ONLY Alhazred, Mordack and Manannan early in co-designing KQ6 with Jane Jensen, and Jensen later included it in the finished KQ6. It was never something she seemed to take that seriously, and note that neither KQ7 nor KQ8 so much as mentioned it.

KQ2+ and TSL seem to want to tie every single villain and event of the series to the Black Cloak Society, and weave the games tightly together, and I think having all these people and events tied together actually limits the possibilities for the story going forward and makes the universe of the series that much smaller--much like Lucas did with the Star Wars prequels (IE, Anakin creating C-3PO, meeting Boba Fett as a child and making him a Clone, having Yoda fight alongside Chewbacca in the Clone Wars, etc)

It also limits the writers' ability to be original and creative. Most fanfiction tries to try everything together. I would like to see new stories with unrelated
villains like the original kq2.

Tying everything up worked horribly with the metal gear solid games. By mgs4, you find out that everything from the three games were staged to try taking down some computer that is controlling everything; the story gotten so stupid and convoluted that it didn't make any sense.

[tomimt]

I'm happy to see, that I'm not the only one, who thinks AGDI went a bit too far with KQ2 remake. It's a fun game, I'm not denying it, but it does take things a bit too far.

I do understand, why they did so much re-writing tough, as the original has very little plot to begin with, but a bit less would have been more aproriate.

[doggans]

Originally Posted by Olaus Petrus

Personally I feel that Companions and other material like that are bit uncanonical.

It may not be canon, but that doesn't mean it can't be fun. I'm one of those geeks who craves continuity and connections in a series, and the Black Cloak Society was the big unanswered question of the King's Quest saga. I love seeing each and every fan interpretation of how things tie together.

I'm also a Tolkien fan, because I love when a fictional world feels like a huge, expansive, coherent universe. One of the things the King's Quest Companion does well is add a sense of history to the world of Daventry, which to me, gives the games a lot more depth. Fan theories that tie the games together are just taking that one step further.

I understand that theories about connections aren't going to be enjoyed by everyone, and that's fine. Some people prefer the more standalone nature of each game in the original series. But I enjoy watching fans take on the challenge of seeing how things could possibly connect, and even when the results are far-fetched, I still find the ride very entertaining.

[Olaus Petrus]

Originally Posted by doggans

It may not be canon, but that doesn't mean it can't be fun. I'm one of those geeks who craves continuity and connections in a series, and the Black Cloak Society was the big unanswered question of the King's Quest saga. I love seeing each and every fan interpretation of how things tie together.

I'm also a Tolkien fan, because I love when a fictional world feels like a huge, expansive, coherent universe. One of the things the King's Quest Companion does well is add a sense of history to the world of Daventry, which to me, gives the games a lot more depth. Fan theories that tie the games together are just taking that one step further.

I understand that theories about connections aren't going to be enjoyed by everyone, and that's fine. Some people prefer the more standalone nature of each game in the original series. But I enjoy watching fans take on the challenge of seeing how things could possibly connect, and even when the results are far-fetched, I still find the ride very entertaining.

I don't mind if hero is always fighting against the same archnemesis, like Guybrush Threepwood is always fighting against LeChuck, or if baddies are related, like Bains brothers in original PQ trilogy, as long as it feels natural. However as nothing in the original KQ games or manuals suggests any connection between many baddies I have difficulties to adopt the concept and it feels bit forced.

Everyone has their preferences and in some level I understand your preference, but still I hope that TTG doesn't try to include some grand conspiracy with all the previous baddies into their new KQ series.

[doggans]

Oh, I agree that Telltale should return to a simplistic fairy tale approach. Partially because at this point, I'm having so much fun with the various fan explanations that a "canon" explanation would be a letdown for me. :P

[MusicallyInspired]

It's interesting to gauge the various reactions about the idea of a cohesive canon as opposed to a separated canon. There seem to be an equal amount of people on either side who love KQ2+ and TSL or hate them. I personally like both approaches. The enhancements and canon tie-ins don't really bother me. It's TSL's horrible writing and immensely dark tone that turns me off, not the canon tie-ins. I liked KQ2+ before I even joined AGDI.

It's strange how extreme each opinion is, though. Usually it's either a fan wants everything to be tied together and loves KQ2+ and TSL or they LOATHE the idea of any sort of deep storyline in a KQ game altogether to the point of disliking even KQ6 for it.

[Chyron8472]

Originally Posted by MusicallyInspired

It's interesting to gauge the various reactions about the idea of a cohesive canon as opposed to a separated canon. There seem to be an equal amount of people on either side who love KQ2+ and TSL or hate them. I personally like both approaches. The enhancements and canon tie-ins don't really bother me. It's TSL's horrible writing and immensely dark tone that turns me off, not the canon tie-ins. I liked KQ2+ before I even joined AGDI.

It's strange how extreme each opinion is, though. Usually it's either a fan wants everything to be tied together and loves KQ2+ and TSL or they LOATHE the idea of any sort of deep storyline in a KQ game altogether to the point of disliking even KQ6 for it.

For me, it matters that the style and tone of a non-Sierra KQ game matches the ones that are. By this, I mean that as I consider KQ5 and 6 to have the quintessential style and interface- KQ6 and 7 to have the epitome of proper tone- it matters that additional games fit the same feel.

This is why TSL falls flat. It has neither the same tone nor style of said games. It just... doesn't.

Meanwhile, AGDI's games fit perfectly with the canon. If it had been claimed that Sierra Online had made these games, noone would be able to tell otherwise. They're just that giood. IA's KQ3 is good, save for a few minor things (the voice acting for the barmaid and Guybrush, and the need to click off dialogue when speech is enabled.)


When it comes down to it, I would pay real money to buy the AGDI and IA remakes of KQ games. However, I have... apprehension... that TTG's KQ games are going to feel far more like bad fan-fiction. It's cruel that Kingdom of Sorrow is probably going to be excellent yet requires earning no profit, while TTG's KQ games may make them money while being of lesser quality.

[Simo Sakari Aaltonen]

I have no fear of Telltale's King's Quest turning out feeling like fan fiction, unlike some parts in each of the fan games. I say this with all respect for those games, whose achievements and merits are many.

I just feel that when I apply the toughest test of all - whether a game feels 100% authentically up to Sierra quality and polish, none of the fan games have passed so far, despite very valiant efforts indeed.

I personally thought the additions to the KQII remake, for example, were a mistake... I would have preferred a 1-to-1 remake. But then, here is hoping someone else will one day do just that!

(Hopefully with fully updated graphics and audio, and the ability to switch between the original and new graphics and gameplay, as with the Monkey Island remakes.)

[Chyron8472]

Why? The original game really felt more like it was KQ1 Part 2.

[Irishmile]

You know... I know I'm a pretty big KQ fan but the stuff some you guys know is impressive.

[Simo Sakari Aaltonen]

Chyron8472, I just have a personal preference for remakes to be only that, and the juxtaposition of Roberta's (or another original designer's) original words and new ones written by someone else and added after the fact - just does not work for me as well as it clearly does for many others... No doubt I am the one who is losing out here, but I have to be true to my own feelings and reactions.

In my view, KQII was complete when Sierra released it back in the eighties, and adding new material to it in a fan remake implies there was something missing from the original, which I disagree with. It is not, in my view and to be completely frank, the place of remakers to put in their own material. That material may be terrific - but it belongs in a game all their own.

No offence is intended by any of this! And I am fine with others disagreeing with this view. Also, I would be very happy with these remakes if they also offered the option to play with the original text and story only. As for the full-blown 1-to-1 remakes with both old and new graphics, audio and gameplay, I believe these will eventually happen as top-quality commercial releases.

So in the end, we will all be happy. There will be a different KQ remake for every person on earth.

[Lambonius]

I prefer to think of the extended remakes as "re-imaginings."