KQ6: Overrated?

[tomimt]

While I do agree Jenses style was out of place in a King's Quest game, writing in Gabriel Knight games is still far better than most games can offer.

[Chyron8472]

@Lamb and @Anakin

Why does a King's Quest game have to be a shallow series of lighthearted fetch quests? Why can't it be serious? What's wrong with serious?

Mordack was not interesting at all. Graham has very little interaction with Mordack except for the very very end of the game, and not much is known about him from KQ5 itself except that he is Manannan's brother.

Cedric is annoying and unhelpful. The ants and bees (and various other animals) voice acting is childish sounding. The plot is uninterestingly simple. I care little or nothing for the other minor characters in the story. Yes, KQ5's and 6's interfaces are extremely similar, but that doesn't make up for KQ5's other flaws.


IMO, KQ7 is very good. It tells a good story, it has interesting characters, and it finally allows a playable Valanice with her own believable motivations. However KQ7's primary problem is its interface, which reduces the player's ability to freely examine/interact with the environment in the same way that KQ6 (and 5) allows. People do also complain about the way death is handled, but I think this is only a very minor issue if the player is in the habit of saving early and often otherwise anyway.



In KQ6, Alexander takes the time to build relationships with other people on the islands. You come to care about them. It evokes some level of feeling to watch the shopkeeper panic as he watches Alexander give up and die. It's somehow comforting to know that there is someone (in the person of Jollo) that is in the castle who can help Alexander. I could go on with more specific examples, but my point is that the player comes to know and have an interest in the lives of other people on the islands. The same applies in KQ7.

I don't give a rat's fart about the Ice Queen, Crispin or anyone from the town in KQ5. They're all just a means to an end; an end which is laid out plain and simple right from the very beginning, without any significant variation along the way.

[philthethrill]

I haven't played EcoQuest, so I don't know how dark it's themes are.

I've played both EcoQuest games, and I never thought of them as being dark. They were mostly about environmental issues like polluting the ocean and saving the rainforest. I don't want to spoil the games for those who haven't played them so here are the trailers instead. This is the trailer for EcoQuest: Search for Cetus. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irDLChacEjQ And here is the trailer for Lost Secrets of the Rainforest. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1fNs...B508BDB3E469EA

[Olaus Petrus]

Originally Posted by Blackthorne519

I'm afraid if he went into detail about the drawbacks of Jane Jensen's writing, I would die of dysentery.

Jane Jensen is highly over-rated. Her "dark" and "mature" themes are cliched at best, and self-indulgent at worst.


Bt

Still she handled adult themes better than most of the Sierra writers. What I always liked in Gabriel Knight games was the fact that she managed to include huge amounts of real historical stuff into those game and also the puzzles offered a good challenge. However it might affect to my judgement, that I like the stuff to which she based her stories, like Wagner, mystery surrounding king Ludwig II of Bavaria and his death, Grail myths, Templars etc. While I like GK series, I don't see her as goddess and I think that for example PQ3's story would have worked without all that cult stuff, which felt IMO bit out of place.

I understand if some people find her stories boring because in GK games you have to explore the myths and stuff in great detail, but compared to other Sierra's dark mature games she triumphed. For example Roberta added rape scene to Phantasmagoria, but five minutes later protagonist is like nothing happened and there is no further references to that event in the game. So I think it was added for shock value, which isn't very good way to explore mature themes. Also I don't understand why the character didn't react in any way when she saw ectoplasm in the nursery, normal people would have moved out from the house at that point. Despite it's flaws, story was somewhat amusing, but the game lacked puzzles.

And Shannon's Puzzle of Flesh was just ridicilous in the way it handled it's horror and sexual themes, often it felt more like cheap fetish film than horror game.

[Simo Sakari Aaltonen]

Thank you for removing the post I was referring to, Lambonius.

As for the rest, I already shared my views on the actual topic and am happy to leave it at that.

[Brainiac]

Originally Posted by Lambonius

Also, the "dark" in Quest for Glory, even Quest for Glory 4, is not the angsty, emo, cliche psychological thriller "dark" of Jane Jensen games, it's more specifically related to a kind of classic horror genre concept (vampires, werewolves, mad-scientists, frankenstein monsters, etc.) Those are two VERY different things.

Uh, Lambo, have you actually played the second or third GK game?

[Lambonius]

Originally Posted by Brainiac

Uh, Lambo, have you actually played the second or third GK game?

Heh...yeah I know that they have vampires and werewolves. But there is a difference between the camp of the 1930s horror movies (which is more the direction that QFG4 goes, in my opinion) than the way Jensen treats those subjects.

[Tallin]

I don't really see how KQ6 was any darker than KQ 4 or 5. Sure, you go to the underworld, but is Lolotte's Castle or the Crypt and Haunted House or even the entire night cycle of KQ4 any lighter? Or the three witches? What about Mordack's castle? Cassima is a slave (dressed for the part) he's planning on forcibly marrying... really, how is that not dark? I mean, even KQ2 was pretty dark in it's own limited way. You pound a stake into Dracula's heart, for goodness sake. In KQ6, you've also got a lot of lighter moments, like the Beauty & the Beast plot, the Lewis Carroll-esque puzzles, the whole Disney-style love story...

I don't know how someone can seriously say that KQ6 was darker than the rest of the series. Personally, I felt the darkest game in the series was KQ4... though I'm not saying that's a bad thing.

[tomimt]

Originally Posted by Lambonius

Heh...yeah I know that they have vampires and werewolves. But there is a difference between the camp of the 1930s horror movies (which is more the direction that QFG4 goes, in my opinion) than the way Jensen treats those subjects.

But have you played them? As it sounds you judge them just because of what you've read, not what you've experienced.

[KuroShiro]

KQ6 was not particularly dark, honestly. It just drew from a different kind of mythology as compared to the previous KQ games -- Greek mythology + Arabian Knights-esque lore vs. kiddied up versions of fairy tales. If you argue that it is overrated because of writing or design, then I have to disagree with you completely.

As far as Jane Jensen's writing goes, I can understand liking or disliking it. Personally, I like it for the interesting historical and mythological undertones that are present in both KQ6 and the first two GK games. I don't really care one way or another about "dark and gritty" which many people seem to get their panties in a bunch over.

And Lamb, I know you are a cool guy from participating in the IA forums, but please lay off the ad hominem attacks. They're uncalled for and paint you in a bad light.

[Sabin Stargem]

I enjoyed King's Quest VI. Nice variety across the board.

[Lambonius]

I really like KQ6, but I do think it is over-rated. My problem isn't necessarily with the dark tone of some Jensen games, it's the fact that EVERY Jensen game has a dark tone--it's boring and cliche after the 5th or 6th dark Jensen story, in my opinion. KQ6 is the sole exception to this rule, in that it's really not that dark, but even IT has undertones that are more serious than any other game in the KQ series. Again, I don't think it's bad--in fact, it's probably my second favorite in the series--I just don't think Jensen's writing is what makes it great.

[Datadog]

I never saw KQ6 as that dark compared to the other games. I mean, come on - you were digging up children's graves in KQ4. As a fan of mystery and horror, Roberta Williams has always lent a little darkness to her work. KQ6 is simply different in the sense that it has more depth and complexity than the other games.

And the game is still very light-hearted. Just look at the Isle of Wonders, or the more colorful characters strewn throughout the land. There's a very good balance of light vs. dark in the game, so it's never too colorful or too dreary.

[Olaus Petrus]

Originally Posted by Lambonius

I really like KQ6, but I do think it is over-rated. My problem isn't necessarily with the dark tone of some Jensen games, it's the fact that EVERY Jensen game has a dark tone--it's boring and cliche after the 5th or 6th dark Jensen story, in my opinion. KQ6 is the sole exception to this rule, in that it's really not that dark, but even IT has undertones that are more serious than any other game in the KQ series. Again, I don't think it's bad--in fact, it's probably my second favorite in the series--I just don't think Jensen's writing is what makes it great.

Most of her games are supposed to be dark. I wouldn't expect anything else if games are about voodoo or werewolves, in fact I would be disapointed if such game was bright and happy. Many writers usually write only certain genres of fiction and it's not necessarily a bad thing. I couldn't imagine Leisure Suit Larry written by Jane Jensen or Gabriel Knight written by Al Lowe.

[MusicallyInspired]

I love KQ6. I thought it was a deeply emotional and powerful story (in a very successful way, as opposed to my thoughts on TSL). I don't think it's dark or too serious at all. I think some people (including my friends at IA) go a little too far in that opinion. I don't even dislike Jane Jensen or Gabriel Knight. I thought Gabriel Knight was a really powerful story. Maybe some just don't like that type of story period and prefer lighthearted stories for everything. I didn't realise this at first, however. I thought you guys simply didn't like TSL in that it didn't do it well, and I agree. But I can't agree that Jane isn't a great writer and made a great story and game with KQ6 and GK.

That said, that doesn't make KQ6 my favourite. KQ5 will always be my favourite. Personally, I don't hold the whole simple-story/light-hearted/"anti-contrived"/"non-convoluted" standpoint of what KQ should be at all. I don't mind backstories, tying things together, and having a bit of drama in it (a la KQ6). Honestly, this kind of stuff just makes things more interesting to me. That doesn't mean I have to consider stuff like the Father or TSL storylines canon but it is fun to experience and see unfold. I enjoy it for what it is. I don't really understand why you guys are so against that, honestly. Maybe it's just your style I guess. Like how some people love horror flicks and I just cannot sit through one. Not my scene. All this doesn't mean they are automatically cliche, bad, and contrived though.

[Brainiac]

Geez, MI, get out of my head!

Except about cursors. You and I already want to smack each other around over that.

<notices confused looks all around>

Oh, sorry everybody, that's a reference from other forums.

[MusicallyInspired]

Lol

[Armakuni]

I think the Kings Quest series itself is a bit overrated, when it comes to only the gameplay itself.
The first Kings Quest game was obviously amazing both technically for the times and in how it invented the 'modern' adventure genre that is still used in adventure games today (well, the basics).
And being Sierras flagship series, new improvements were often put in KQ titles first, such as Kings Quest 4 being the first game utilizing a sound card (or one of the first in any case?).
But the gameplay isn't all that great... the storylines are banal and often not very imaginative, and just not terribly interesting.
It's my one of my least favourite Sierra series. I still enjoy the games but probably mostly because of nostagia in some of the cases.

However, in my opinion, Kings Quest 6 really stands out in a good way... nice story, a bit of a serious feel, good writing... I think it's the best Kings Quest game by far.

But then came Kings Quest 7...

[der_ketzer]

God. I just tried to play KQ6 again and it has the same problem as The Silver LIning. NPCs will not stop to talk for several minutes once they started. Go into the book store and you are in for several minutes exposition-overload. I cannot stand it. And of course the talking dog-humans.

In KQ5 the story parts were short and ignoreable. KQ6 beats you over the head with it again, again and again. I hate it.

[Lambonius]

Originally Posted by der_ketzer

God. I just tried to play KQ6 again and it has the same problem as The Silver LIning. NPCs will not stop to talk for several minutes once they started. Go into the book store and you are in for several minutes exposition-overload. I cannot stand it. And of course the talking dog-humans.

In KQ5 the story parts were short and ignoreable. KQ6 beats you over the head with it again, again and again. I hate it.

Well that's just the thing--what people (even fans) so often don't "get" about the Sierra classics. They aren't about story. They are about exploration and discovery. Story provides a framework for the exploration and discovery, but it should not intrude on or overshadow it, as it does in KQ6 (and most certainly does in TSL.) This is why King's Quest games started going downhill after King's Quest 5.

This is why so many of us are so uneasy about Telltale trying to handle a Sierra franchise.