Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides

[Hayden]

I know that we have a thread to facilitate this sort of discussion, and a place to vent our excitement for up coming movies. But I felt that this particular film deserves its own thread, seeing as how the majority of us here are highly anticipating its release - something I've deduced from the fact that about 90% of the posts in the 'Up Coming Movie Thread' have mentioned it. I'm referring, of course, to 'Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides':



As the poster states, this will be released on May 20, which is under two months away! And, as though some fans weren't excited enough, a new trailer has now been released (though I do warn you that this trailer may contain what will perhaps be the best parts of the film).

[Secret Fawful]

Good idea for a topic! I'd love to see more individual topics like this on specific movies around here. So, Pirates:

Here are some more character posters. I really love the look they've gone for with them; they're really nice, and really simple.







And here is some concept art.













And finally, some screencaps. The film really looks like it's sporting some nice visuals.

[Hayden]

Wow, I haven't even seen those screenshots yet! They look incredible!

And yeah, I too like the way they've gone with the promo posters. Except this one isn't too great; it just looks a little too Photoshopped:



And, by the way, I need to find out the name of that concept artist. Whoever it is is incredible!

Edit: Oh, and for all who haven't heard...

[Secret Fawful]

That one is bloody horrid. You can't even see the ship you're obviously supposed to be able to see behind his hair!

I'm incredibly interested in this movie, not just as a mega-fan of this series, but also because I'm insanely interested to see how it fares under a new director, as well as how it fares as a fourth sequel. I think this one might be the one to break the fourth sequel curse as far as quality, or at least I'm hoping as much. It's basically already been confirmed that there'll be a fifth and sixth movie made as well, so it's obvious they have plenty of ideas left, and I think this is a series that can easily have plenty of material. This is the new Sinbad/Indiana Jones of the 00's-10's. Curse of the Black Pearl is in my top ten films, although Dead Man's Chest comes in very close to it. I consider them both to be near-perfect adventure movies, but that's me. Returning to that scope will ultimately save the fourth movie. Also, I'm insanely excited to see if Zimmer can top his score for the third movie, a score that is one of the greatest, in my opinion, of all time. I actually kind of hope that Zimmer will reuse some of the themes he had in At World's End, because some of them were just...wow.

I'm glad Will and Elizabeth are gone, I'm hoping that the young man and mermaid thing going on in this film doesn't mimic it, and I'm also kind of happy that the two British soldiers, plus Pintel and Ragetti, are all gone as well. It makes it all much fresher.

So, yeah. Long post there, but just some of my general thoughts on the film so far. The first trailer wasn't very strong, but the newest trailer gives a much better impression of the film overall.

EDIT: Ninja'd on the fifth and sixth Pirates films announcement-

[Hayden]

Originally Posted by Secret Fawful

That one is bloody horrid. You can't even see the ship you're obviously supposed to be able to see behind his hair!

I'm incredibly interested in this movie, not just as a mega-fan of this series, but also because I'm insanely interested to see how it fares under a new director, as well as how it fares as a fourth sequel. I think this one might be the one to break the fourth sequel curse as far as quality, or at least I'm hoping as much. It's basically already been confirmed that there'll be a fifth and sixth movie made as well, so it's obvious they have plenty of ideas left, and I think this is a series that can easily have plenty of material. This is the new Sinbad/Indiana Jones of the 00's-10's. Curse of the Black Pearl is in my top ten films, although Dead Man's Chest comes in very close to it. I consider them both to be near-perfect adventure movies, but that's me. Returning to that scope will ultimately save the fourth movie.

You've basically summed up my thoughts on the film right here (and my thoughts on the poster). The announcement/rumour of a further two films in the franchise has also made me much more confident about this film, and for the same reasons - it's an indicator that they've got a whole bag of ideas and concepts, and that they're not simply putting out a watered-down version of what we've seen in the previous films.

Also, I'm thinking that this film will be fine with a new director. If anything, it should be a breath of fresh air into the series. Plus, Rob Marshall specializes in choreography, doesn't he? So it should make for some pretty kickass action sequences (though this may be wishful thinking from me).

And even if the cinematography is semi-crappy, at least the story and script should be reasonable, as this installment has the same writers as the last three films.

I'm glad Will and Elizabeth are gone, I'm hoping that the young man and mermaid thing going on in this film doesn't mimic it, and I'm also kind of happy that the two British soldiers, plus Pintel and Ragetti, are all gone as well. It makes it all much fresher.

I know right? It's a good thing that so many of the characters are gone! This is something that I've tried to tell people: the removal of these characters will stop the series from becoming stale and repetitive. But people just don't seem to be able to grasp this idea, instead going with the mindset of "it's gonna suck because Will and Elizabeth aren't in it" - these are the exact words I've heard and read from so many people. It's incredibly frustrating.

So, yeah. Long post there, but just some of my general thoughts on the film so far. The first trailer wasn't very strong, but the newest trailer gives a much better impression of the film overall.

Aye, I just can't wait to see how it all comes together now .

Edit: Also, just out of interest, what were your basic thoughts on the third film?

[Ash735]

I am interested but also fear it at the same time, I've read On Stranger Times a lot and love the book, but I don't really see Jack Sparrow in there, so it will be interesting to see how much of the book and events are kept in.

[Secret Fawful]

Originally Posted by Hayden

But people just don't seem to be able to grasp this idea, instead going with the mindset of "it's gonna suck because Will and Elizabeth aren't in it" - these are the exact words I've heard and read from so many people. It's incredibly frustrating.

...Same here. There are a lot of reasons why I'm glad to see them go, most of which stem from the third movie.

Edit: Also, just out of interest, what were your basic thoughts on the third film?

I think there is so much that they did wrong with it. For one, if they had wanted to stop at film three, then there is one big thing they should have done. They should have left Jack Sparrow dead. That would have taken some real balls, and if I was writing the trilogy, it's what I would have done. Jack's death in film two was an incredible scene, and I couldn't stop thinking about it when I left the theater. Saving Jack takes away from the impact of it. If he was dead, and gone for good, then that would have been the ballsiest thing they could have ever done. Once Jack was dead, I would have had Will become the hero of film three, and focused it entirely on him trying to save his father, amidst a background of realistic war between pirates and the British army. and I would have had Will adopt a mindset of "what would Jack do" causing him to inevitably adopt some of Jack's mannerisms and cunning. I might have even had Will go a little nutty, and brought Jack back as a hallucination. Maybe even as a ghost; that would have been fun. It would have been better than the crab desert.

Davy Jones was wasted in film three. He was an amazing villain, and in my opinion, a better one than Barbossa. Barbossa became more of an anti-hero, and that is something that has benefited his character overall. That's the best change to come out of film three. The subplot between Davy Jones and the sea goddess was a great idea, executed poorly. Norrington was also wasted like a little bitch. I would have much rather seen Will becoming more of a pirate and moore treacherous, and Elizabeth, wondering if she could trust him anymore, begin to fall for Norrington, who begins to win her trust over Will. Thus, the more Jack-ish Will would have a rival in Norrington, something set up in the first two films and completely destroyed in film three. I would also have had Will become the King of the Pirates. I would have had a fight between the Black Pearl and the Kraken in a maelstrom in the middle of a the film, ending with the Pearl shipwrecked on an island, and the Kraken's dying body washed up there as well due to the maelstrom. Then Will would enter the Kraken and find the item for the Brethren Court on Jack's dead body, with Jack's ghost there to comment on it.

The Brethren Court was a great idea, and I liked all of the Pirate Lords that were put in the film, but I don't think the film needed a huge battle between them all and the army all at once. I don't agree with that. I would have had Chow Yun Fat's character live, only to be betrayed and killed by Will later when Will betrays the pirates to work for the British in order to gain his father's freedom from the Dutchman. Make sense so far? Anyway, enough talking about what I would have done. I still liked the movie well enough. The plot was insanely weak, and it's the weakest of the four films (there's no way I believe OST will be weaker than AWE), but overall, I still liked it a lot. I would have had Will still become the next Davy Jones; but also as the Pirate King. The only reason they are continuing these films is because Jack is still alive, therefore they've sort of forced themselves into this corner. Whereas, if they had written the third movie the way I outlined, there would have never been a need for a fourth movie. I'm not complaining about more Pirates, exactly, but I wonder which direction will serve the series more.

The music in AWE is the best part of the film. It is incredible; I already said that. Not since Morricone have I heard such amazing, sweeping, perfect music out of a film. Zimmer would be a fool not to reuse some of it in the rest of the series. The third film did have a lot of good scenes I really loved. The opening was great, the Leone style showdown on the beach was great, and overall it was a well made movie out of a poorly written script. Oh, I also would have had Barbossa and Davy Jones become rivals if I had written it. Either way, I saw a lot of missed opportunities and the third film is the only reason the second is weakened in any way.

What about your thoughts?

[Rather Dashing]

I'm a fan of the book.

I don't plan to see the film.

[Hayden]

Well, 'At World's End' is probably the film that I can comment on the least out of the three, as it's the one I've viewed the fewest number of times. But I agree with you that the plot wasn't great, and it ultimately let the whole film down. Of course, I still really liked 'At World's End', and felt that it did almost everything right... apart from the plot. The effects were amazing, the battle scenes were well done and entertaining, the acting was good, the locations were the best in the series - it should have been absolutely epic... but it wasn't; the plot being the problem.

Because the things that made the first two films so great and so engaging was the fact that they were well thought-out, and their respective plots and storylines had depth and substance to them. This ultimately made the action sequences so much more exciting, because the action and battles we were viewing onscreen would affect the course of events; would have a bearing on what was to come in the story. The action scenes in 'At World's End' were more amazing, visually, but they were nowhere near as exciting as the action scenes in the first two films, and this was because (as we've mentioned) the plot was weak, and paper thin.

And this probably comes as a result from the team trying to create something of epic proportions, using their incredible budget on making things look amazing, but not focusing on the one thing that made the first two films brilliant - the excitement, the engagement, and the immersion, which all were spawned from the plot.

I like what your ideas are for the movie's plotline; that would have been a much better alternative. Those events would have given way to a much stronger plot, and probably would have actually created some memorable moments that would actually stick in the audience's head. Because, in all honesty, since it's been a while since I last viewed 'At World's End', I can't actually remember much as all about the film. I sure as hell didn't remember much about it after my first viewing - it was a big blur of men in wigs, hundreds of ships, dark clouds and stormy weather, lots of crabs, Keith Richards and Singaporeans. Whereas, with 'Dead Man's Chest', I could recount the major plot elements, the basic storyline, and the action was more memorable as a result.

At least 'On Stranger Tides' appears to be a return to form, or at least it should be. There's just one things that the plot is centered around here - multiple parties in search of the fountain of youth. This is good - this means that the scriptwriters can focus on that; focus on cultivating this single storyline; make this one thing complex and exciting, as opposed to stretching themselves thin over a number of storylines and too many plot elements (like in 'AWE'). Also, I hear that they had a pretty big budget cut this time around, which is great! It means that they can't go crazy this time, and their focus will remain on making a good film, not making a visually impressive film. These are other reasons why I think that 'OST' will be a return to form. I'm expecting it to be at about the same level as 'Dead Man's Chest', and should have a lot of similar elements.

Sorry if I talked in circles in this post, by the way . I can get repetitive sometimes.

[Irishmile]

I was so pleased when they announced that Ian McShane was going to be Blackbeard... Ian is awesome.

[Secret Fawful]

@Hayden:

I have to say I pretty much agree with everything you said, and you weren't repetitive about it at all. Also, Rather Dashing reminded me I need to buy the book soon and read it.

Here are a couple links to the book On Stranger Tides by Tim Powers for anyone interested in purchasing it:

http://www.amazon.com/Stranger-Tides...0891182&sr=8-1
Better cover, but more expensive.

http://www.amazon.com/Stranger-Tides...0891182&sr=8-2
Boring cover, but less expensive.

http://www.amazon.com/Art-Pirates-Ca...0891182&sr=8-3
Also, here is a link to a pre-order for the book containing the artwork for the film, since you mentioned being interested in that.

[Irishmile]

The book is great... I would suggest it to anyone if you are a fan of either Monkey Island OR PoTC.... the themes fit well withing both worlds for obvious reasons.

I also like the cover of my book its a really old paperback.
here are some used copies from amazon for a little less money
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...condition=used

[corruptbiggins]

Originally Posted by Irishmile

I was so pleased when they announced that Ian McShane was going to be Blackbeard... Ian is awesome.

He will always be Lovejoy to me which makes it a little amusing when he's in a big film or tv series.

[DAISHI]

The more heavily the movies focused on Jack the more I felt they were one trick ponies resting heavily on a gimmicky performance. Now they've gone full monty and put all their cards on him, and I have my doubts about the quality.

[StarEye]

I love Jack Sparrow, screw the haters. I also loved the first trilogy, not every movie as much, but I still loved them. LEGO Pirates of the Caribbean will probably be the frist game in the LEGO series I buy for myself and my wife.

I'm curious how faithful to the book it will be though, and I wonder if I should buy and read the book before or after the film.

[Vainamoinen]

Originally Posted by Irishmile

Ah! The fabled James Gurney cover! Oh how I tried to get this hardcover edition, to no avail.

I'm a bit torn concerning PotC 4. But I think that I will be fully able to watch the movie with no preset notions about how good or bad it will be, but watch it as "just" an adventure movie with one of my favourite characters in it.

My special interest is the concept art, however. Even if the movie happens to suck, I will still have a great time with the artbook. The monstrosity that was the previous art book is one of my most prized possessions (now available for almost nothing).

[Scnew]

I loved the first movie--really loath the other two. In the first film, the pirates were pirates. The British navy were antagonists in that they were after Jack, but you didn't feel like they were evil or anything.

In the sequels, being a pirate was all of a sudden a good thing, so much so that Will and Elizabeth were suddenly all piratey. And on the opposite side, the British navy was suddenly totally evil--aren't pirates supposed to be bad guys? Isn't that their appeal? The first movie seemed to take place more or less in a realistic world, just with curses. Then all of a sudden the sequels have sea goddesses, Davy Jones, krakens, coming back from the dead, and worst of all "pirate lords." Suddenly being a pirate meant you were a freedom fighter against the evil forces of civilization... yuck.

Anyway, I might still see this because Jack Sparrow is still endlessly entertaining to watch. He's really the only part of two and three that I enjoyed.

[Irishmile]

Originally Posted by Vainamoinen

Ah! The fabled James Gurney cover! Oh how I tried to get this hardcover edition, to no avail.

I'm a bit torn concerning PotC 4. But I think that I will be fully able to watch the movie with no preset notions about how good or bad it will be, but watch it as "just" an adventure movie with one of my favourite characters in it.

My special interest is the concept art, however. Even if the movie happens to suck, I will still have a great time with the artbook. The monstrosity that was the previous art book is one of my most prized possessions (now available for almost nothing).

NICE!!!! I totally just bought that book thanks for the share...

The only thing that ticks me off is that now that book can never be a movie with its original characters intact. .... But it wasn't ever going to happen like that anyway.

[coolguy721]

heres my rundown on this series

the first one : pretty good
Second one: erm ok....not as good..not that bad...
Third one: wtf is this crap?

this one actually looks better then the past three. I am really glad they aren't going to have orlando bloom or keira knightly again.

[Irishmile]

Yeah I am actually glad they do not have Will and Elizabeth forced in... their story is over... Jack was kind of the only character who is not tied down and can still have a crazy journey.