How should this game handle ingame deaths?

[wilco64256]

Originally Posted by Radogol

There's still plenty incentive to play properly. Anybody can finish an Uncharted game, but it still takes a lot of skill and effort to complete it on a high difficulty level and with decent "score". That, to me, is the best of both worlds.

Yeah see I want a game to challenge me because it's a challenging game, not because I set the difficulty setting higher. There's a difference between a challenging game and a difficult game.

[Radogol]

Originally Posted by wilco64256

Yeah see I want a game to challenge me because it's a challenging game, not because I set the difficulty setting higher.

This statement baffles me to the point where I'm at loss for words. Well played.

[wilco64256]

Originally Posted by Radogol

This statement baffles me to the point where I'm at loss for words. Well played.

I think what you're missing here is my point that there's a huge difference between a game being a good challenge and it being difficult just because there's a setting I can change so that the enemies do a ridiculous amount of damage to me. Making the ghosts travel ten times faster in Pacman might make it more difficult, but that's not a "better" challenge.

In the same light, I don't see how increasing the "difficulty" setting on Uncharted makes it any better. It doesn't change the mechanics of how the game plays at all.

[Radogol]

Uncharted gives you all the tools you need to complete each level without a scratch. If a player can't complete an encounter on Crushing, that's because his skill is insufficient, not because the game is unfair.

[SHODANFreeman]

Originally Posted by wilco64256

I think what you're missing here is my point that there's a huge difference between a game being a good challenge and it being difficult just because there's a setting I can change so that the enemies do a ridiculous amount of damage to me. Making the ghosts travel ten times faster in Pacman might make it more difficult, but that's not a "better" challenge.

In the same light, I don't see how increasing the "difficulty" setting on Uncharted makes it any better. It doesn't change the mechanics of how the game plays at all.

How is being sent back to play through the same area you've already completed earlier more challenging than raising the difficulty to the point that you have to play extremely carefully to avoid being killed?

[MusicallyInspired]

Becuase you obviously don't want to go back to play through the areas you've played through already. This goes back to my earlier point. There's a danger to your accomplishments up to that point. If you haven't saved you're going to lose it. In an FPS this isn't necessary, but it is crucial (for some of us) to the experience of an adventure game.

This is really a mindset thing and how specific people look at adventures. I doubt people with an opinion like yours, Shodan, will even understand it. (that was in no way a jab or an insult) That's why I ask for a choice.

[wilco64256]

Originally Posted by MusicallyInspired

Becuase you obviously don't want to go back to play through the areas you've played through already. This goes back to my earlier point. There's a danger to your accomplishments up to that point. If you haven't saved you're going to lose it. In an FPS this isn't necessary, but it is crucial (for some of us) to the experience of an adventure game.

This is really a mindset thing and how specific people look at adventures. I doubt people with an opinion like yours, Shodan, will even understand it. (that was in no way a jab or an insult) That's why I ask for a choice.

This right here, it's just a different mindset about what makes a game good. If a good game to you is one that just changes the damage variables so that you die 600 times in every area that's totally fine. That's just different from what some other people consider to be a proper challenge.

[Radogol]

Originally Posted by wilco64256

If a good game to you is one that just changes the damage variables so that you die 600 times in every area that's totally fine. That's just different from what some other people consider to be a proper challenge.

Don't be such a patronizing dick. The generalizations are uncalled for.

[wilco64256]

Originally Posted by Radogol

Don't be such a patronizing dick. The generalizations are uncalled for.

Wow, easy tiger. It's perfectly okay to have a difference of opinion but there's no need for you to start calling names.

[puzzlebox]

Hey guys, keep it classy here.

As for in-game deaths - I just don't like to see my character die, and that's enough to create a sense of "danger" for me. Dying feels like failure. Sure, I'll poke the wasp's nest just to see what happens, but I'll probably only do it once (unless it leads to an amusing death that begs repeated viewings).

Manual saves don't really add anything to the experience for me, so I'm all for KQVII-style "try again" popups. I sure don't mind if the player gets to choose autosave frequency, but I'd be going the least manual route.

[chucklas]

But imagine leaving in deaths and dead-ends...etc. You have to play the game in such a way that you are trying to prevent these things from occurring. To me that makes a great challenge. If you remove those elements, it makes it so you can't play on if you haven't done everything right to that point. Why not let the adventurer decide if he thinks that he is ready, and if he is not, lets hope he saved just in case. That to me makes a great sense of adventure and challenge. In KQVI I wouldn't go into the catacombs unless I felt confident that I had everything that I needed, and if I forgot something, I would be screwed. But I save before going in just in case. I don't know how anyone can see a problem with that design, but then again, everyone doesn't think like me. That is why having difficulty settings makes sense. No one is the same in what they like or how they think.

[wilco64256]

Yeah see the difference between having to do your own saving and the whole autosaving thing is that an autosave takes (just my opinion) all of the challenge out of a game by showing you exactly where you screwed up. If you have to do all your own saving then it takes a lot more thought and planning on the player's part to figure out what's going wrong when they get stuck or die.

[ScreamingFalcon]

How about a pop up option asking the player the style they'd like to play under? Like asking them if they'd like to play the "Classic Sierra" way (Save Early, Save Often), the "Modern Sierra" way (reversible death, KQ7-esqe), or the "TTG/LucasArts" way (the only reason to save is incase of power failure)?

[wilco64256]

Originally Posted by ScreamingFalcon

How about a pop up option asking the player the style they'd like to play under? Like asking them if they'd like to play the "Classic Sierra" way (Save Early, Save Often), the "Modern Sierra" way (reversible death, KQ7-esqe), or the "TTG/LucasArts" way (the only reason to save is incase of power failure)?

The main problem I see with that is it's extra work to code multiple methods into a game like that and I don't really see Telltale wanting to spend that time or effort required to do so. They do the games and get them out the door. I'd love to see that, but I don't expect it at all.

[SHODANFreeman]

Originally Posted by ScreamingFalcon

the "TTG/LucasArts" way (the only reason to save is incase of power failure)?

LucasArts games never had auto-save.

[ScreamingFalcon]

Originally Posted by SHODANFreeman

LucasArts games never had auto-save.

True, but my statement still holds true. The only game from LucasArts (LucasFilms Games as it was known at the time) that I can recall that you could actually die (or be captured, as was the case) in was the first one, Maniac Mansion.

[Lambonius]

Originally Posted by ScreamingFalcon

True, but my statement still holds true. The only game from LucasArts (LucasFilms Games as it was known at the time) that I can recall that you could actually die (or be captured, as was the case) in was the first one, Maniac Mansion.

The Indy games, too. Zak McKracken also had its fair share of dead ends.

[ScreamingFalcon]

Originally Posted by Lambonius

The Indy games, too. Zak McKracken also had its fair share of dead ends.

Meh, never much of a LucasArts fan back in the day.

[SHODANFreeman]

Originally Posted by ScreamingFalcon

True, but my statement still holds true. The only game from LucasArts (LucasFilms Games as it was known at the time) that I can recall that you could actually die (or be captured, as was the case) in was the first one, Maniac Mansion.

If you stayed underwater for 10 minutes in the first Monkey Island, the game would become unwinnable, too.

[Chyron8472]

Originally Posted by wilco64256

Yeah see the difference between having to do your own saving and the whole autosaving thing is that an autosave takes (just my opinion) all of the challenge out of a game by showing you exactly where you screwed up. If you have to do all your own saving then it takes a lot more thought and planning on the player's part to figure out what's going wrong when they get stuck or die.

This.

I want a Restore/Restart/Quit screen. If I have an an autosave function, I want to it only save at various checkpoints or when I get a point for doing something. I don't want to go right back to before I died. I voted for having a choice.

Shodan, you've played too many LucasArts games and too few Sierra games to understand the value of making the player save early, save often and be careful about overwriting ealier savegames.

In KQ3, you're made to walk down the mountain at least once to get to town. If you fell off the mountain and the game gave you a Retry screen and put you right exactly next to where you fell, then there would be no feeling of precariousness. There would be no thought of "oh, crap I hope I don't fall... maybe I should save right here so I don't have to walk all the way down again if I die."

Also, say you're playing KQ6 and wandering the catacombs. If you walk into a room with a trapfloor, die and get a Retry screen, you would be put in the room immediately before you walked into the trap. Such a thing would drastically reduce the feeling of peril you get from playing the game.

But if you don't want the feeling of peril, then fine. I voted for choice anyway.