Telltale Games

MusicallyInspired · 04/19/2011, 04:30 pm

I'm trying to think up a witty statement for Error 52 (or whichever it was) from QFG4....but I fail greatly at wit most of the time.

chucklas · 04/19/2011, 04:34 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lambonius

I tried restarting, but ended up just having to quit.

What went wrong Lamb, you get a dead end?

Lambonius · 04/19/2011, 05:41 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chucklas

What went wrong Lamb, you get a dead end?

Out of heap. Lol

ScreamingFalcon · 04/20/2011, 06:00 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chyron8472

EDIT: Okay, I'll run with your mention of walkthroughs, since I thought of a store-bought strategy guide that really rubs me the wrong way. The Final Fantasy IX Official Strategy Guide by BradyGames has places all over it in the margins that refer to PlayOnline.com with various codes which must be input on said website to read further game hints and information. What I want is a standalone guide with all the pertinent info included in print. Sadly, no such guide exists in paper form for FF9, but I digress. You might say "just don't visit the site if you don't want to" but the fact that the guide constantly bothers me about it is of great annoyance to me.

So the same goes for always having a Retry button bothering me in a KQ game when it is not wanted.

Yeah, I hated that guide too. Even LONG after PlayOnline yanked down the FFIX online guide, BradyGames was STILL printing new copies of that annoying guide with all the margin crap in there! AGHHHHHH!!!

ScreamingFalcon · 04/20/2011, 06:01 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lambonius

Out of heap. Lol

Bad RAM?

Lambonius · 04/20/2011, 09:37 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScreamingFalcon

Bad RAM?

Haha...yeah, my RAM was just not up to par!

caeska · 04/21/2011, 03:47 am

Did this tread derail already by the way?

Back to King's Quest though, I'd be happy with a retry/restore option when you die and I have no problem with them modernizing the system a bit. But the most important thing to me is that there actually is the possibility of death. It's been an important part in all of Sierra's adventure games, it makes the player feel that he's constantly in danger and can't just run around willy-nilly without consequences.

My favorite game is KQ5, it has excellent puzzles, it's challenging and it's serious yet funny. Every time I play it I always save the game and get Graham killed by going to a deadly scorpion, jumping off the cliff, getting caught in the castle etc. The narrator adds so much to that game, and his comments every time you die are so funny

So yes, the possibility of death absolutely has to be in TTG's version of KQ too. If there isn't, well then I will be utterly disappointed.

NSM · 04/21/2011, 10:44 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chyron8472

Yes, I would be bothered by the temptation. I don't want to feel like I'm continuously purposefully making the game harder for myself.

So the onus is on the developers to make the game arbitrarily difficult?

This debate just seems really weird, because it's almost as though the proponents know deep down that repeating sections of the game as punishment is no fun and kinda stupid, but choose to do it anyway out of tradition.

MusicallyInspired · 04/21/2011, 03:16 pm

Yahtzee agrees with me. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/vide...rbys-Epic-Yarn 2:43

Chyron8472 · 04/21/2011, 03:17 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NSM

it's almost as though the proponents choose to [be forced to repeat sections of the game for having not saved recently] anyway out of tradition.

Yes. This.

It's part of the established gameplay of the franchise. KQ7 moved to retries and ticked a lot of people off for it.

King's Quest has a very loyal fan following with strong feelings of nostalgia about the franchise, and if Telltale doesn't want to alienate a significant portion of the target market for this game, then they need to stick to tradition in this case.

ScreamingFalcon · 04/21/2011, 03:43 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chyron8472

Yes. This.

It's part of the established gameplay of the franchise. KQ7 moved to retries and ticked a lot of people off for it.

King's Quest has a very loyal fan following with strong feelings of nostalgia about the franchise, and if Telltale doesn't want to alienate a significant portion of the target market for this game, then they need to stick to tradition in this case.

It torked off so many long time fans that they brought back manual saves and restores in later pressings.

caeska · 04/22/2011, 01:45 am

Hopefully we can get a fast save and load-system in this game, hopefully a quick-save and quick-load function.
None of that crap we've had up until now where it takes 18 hours to save your game.

ScreamingFalcon · 04/22/2011, 06:28 am

Never took me 18 hours. With Sierra games, even once the mouse was introduced, they allowed you to press F5 to save and F7 to reload. Odd coinkydink (or not), Interplay used that setup as the quicksave/quickload combo for Fallout and Fallout 2.

caeska · 04/22/2011, 07:27 am

Sierra games always had a quick way to save and load, I'm talking about the Telltale games, ScreamingFalcon.
Like TOMI, Sam and Max, BTTF etc, where it requires 450 mouse clicks every time you want to save your game.

NSM · 04/22/2011, 08:10 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chyron8472

Yes. This.

It's part of the established gameplay of the franchise. KQ7 moved to retries and ticked a lot of people off for it.

King's Quest has a very loyal fan following with strong feelings of nostalgia about the franchise, and if Telltale doesn't want to alienate a significant portion of the target market for this game, then they need to stick to tradition in this case.

It's a bit like getting mad at Microsoft because they introduced an autosave feature to Excel. "I remember the days when the best part of creating a spreadsheet was the thrill of losing it when the power went out!" It just seems very strange to me.

I do agree that many of the complaints are nostalgia-driven, it's the only way that calls for 2D graphics or (of all things) a text-parser can be reasonably considered when talking about a game being released in 2011. I just don't think the loyal fanbase is as large as you think it is.

It kinda ties into this false dichotomy of old school gamers and casual gamers. Things like save/restore/quit died out because technology and gaming evolved, not as a personal affront to hardcore gamers. The shift in expectations was at least implicitly acknowledged by Sierra itself when it introduced retry in KQ7. Adventure games have probably, of all genres, been most resistant to change. It's hardly surprising you don't see all that many of them anymore.

caeska · 04/22/2011, 09:43 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by NSM

It's a bit like getting mad at Microsoft because they introduced an autosave feature to Excel. "I remember the days when the best part of creating a spreadsheet was the thrill of losing it when the power went out!" It just seems very strange to me.

I don't see how that's a valid comparison, it's apples and oranges. This is about making the game somewhat challenging and adding a danger element to the game world.
In King's Quest death can lurk behind every corner, it's the way it has always been and it's a tradition that should not ever be broken.
You have to save often or you can expect to get screwed.

doggans · 04/23/2011, 05:46 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicallyInspired

Despite all of this, retries negate the effect of a death in a game. If that's the way adventures MUST go then remove deaths altogether because there's no point for them.

So I'm curious, does that mean that the deaths in Portal are pointless?

MusicallyInspired · 04/23/2011, 08:22 am

No. The game doesn't give you a retry in Portal. It autosaves at the beginning of each test area. If you don't save manually immediately before a death you have to do a bunch of things over again. I'm ok with area-based autosaves. Not death autosaves.

Chyron8472 · 04/24/2011, 05:18 pm

Agreed.

ScreamingFalcon · 04/25/2011, 05:29 am

Example of a non-cheap death in KQ: from the files of KQVI, you are warned multiple times of the strong undertow in the waters around the Land of the Green Isles. However, if you are stupid enough to try to ignore this good advice, you WILL drown and be visiting the underworld.

The deaths in KQ's later games were not random and most deaths in KQ at all came from ignoring plain old common sense (example: swimming too long or too far from shore in KQI-IV) or from ignoring the best advice you can get in an adventure game, "if it isn't nailed down, pick it up" (for the unfamiliar, KQV and KQVI have great examples of dead-ends that punish the unprepared, although KQVI would give you a chance to get your supplies before embarking on the challenge). I can think of only a few random kills and those are mostly from KQI and KQII (ok, a tiny bit in KQVII, but you could make those end for good eventually). However, in those you could get temporary protection from a faerie of some sort so you would not die.

So, there you have it, Sierra's in-game deaths were there not to be walls in the way of progress, but to teach you to use your head and think about it, THEN act.

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04/21/2011, 03:47 am	#47
caeska Monkey Smuggler Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Fondor Orbital Shipyards Posts: 740	Did this tread derail already by the way? Back to King's Quest though, I'd be happy with a retry/restore option when you die and I have no problem with them modernizing the system a bit. But the most important thing to me is that there actually is the possibility of death. It's been an important part in all of Sierra's adventure games, it makes the player feel that he's constantly in danger and can't just run around willy-nilly without consequences. My favorite game is KQ5, it has excellent puzzles, it's challenging and it's serious yet funny. Every time I play it I always save the game and get Graham killed by going to a deadly scorpion, jumping off the cliff, getting caught in the castle etc. The narrator adds so much to that game, and his comments every time you die are so funny So yes, the possibility of death absolutely has to be in TTG's version of KQ too. If there isn't, well then I will be utterly disappointed.

04/22/2011, 01:45 am	#52
caeska Monkey Smuggler Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Fondor Orbital Shipyards Posts: 740	Hopefully we can get a fast save and load-system in this game, hopefully a quick-save and quick-load function. None of that crap we've had up until now where it takes 18 hours to save your game.

04/22/2011, 06:28 am	#53
ScreamingFalcon AKA MajorFalcon71 Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 99	Never took me 18 hours. With Sierra games, even once the mouse was introduced, they allowed you to press F5 to save and F7 to reload. Odd coinkydink (or not), Interplay used that setup as the quicksave/quickload combo for Fallout and Fallout 2.

04/22/2011, 07:27 am	#54
caeska Monkey Smuggler Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Fondor Orbital Shipyards Posts: 740	Sierra games always had a quick way to save and load, I'm talking about the Telltale games, ScreamingFalcon. Like TOMI, Sam and Max, BTTF etc, where it requires 450 mouse clicks every time you want to save your game.

04/24/2011, 05:18 pm	#59
Chyron8472 Killer Walrus Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tulsa, OK, USA Posts: 4,071	Agreed.

04/25/2011, 05:29 am	#60
ScreamingFalcon AKA MajorFalcon71 Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 99	Example of a non-cheap death in KQ: from the files of KQVI, you are warned multiple times of the strong undertow in the waters around the Land of the Green Isles. However, if you are stupid enough to try to ignore this good advice, you WILL drown and be visiting the underworld. The deaths in KQ's later games were not random and most deaths in KQ at all came from ignoring plain old common sense (example: swimming too long or too far from shore in KQI-IV) or from ignoring the best advice you can get in an adventure game, "if it isn't nailed down, pick it up" (for the unfamiliar, KQV and KQVI have great examples of dead-ends that punish the unprepared, although KQVI would give you a chance to get your supplies before embarking on the challenge). I can think of only a few random kills and those are mostly from KQI and KQII (ok, a tiny bit in KQVII, but you could make those end for good eventually). However, in those you could get temporary protection from a faerie of some sort so you would not die. So, there you have it, Sierra's in-game deaths were there not to be walls in the way of progress, but to teach you to use your head and think about it, THEN act.