I'll go back ten minutes early...ARGH!!!

[doodo!]

So, how is Marty going to warn doc about his murder if he shows up 10 minutes early and the other marty is standing right there??

AND...why would Doc set up the same thing to happen with the Lybians? In the present of that time line Marty returns to, Doc already knows about the murdering and in that present it's clearly the future of those past events they've changed time with...his parents have changed, and it's a alternative reality...

So why would Doc have Marty go back to 1955 again? Wouldn't that create another alternative time line or something??

[Michael J Fox is Canadian]

Originally Posted by doodo!

So, how is Marty going to warn doc about his murder if he shows up 10 minutes early and the other marty is standing right there??

AND...why would Doc set up the same thing to happen with the Lybians? In the present of that time line Marty returns to, Doc already knows about the murdering and in that present it's clearly the future of those past events they've changed time with...his parents have changed, and it's a alternative reality...

So why would Doc have Marty go back to 1955 again? Wouldn't that create another alternative time line or something??

first off marty doesn't know about the rules of time travel yet and doesn't learn about the 'other self' paradoxes until the next film.
doc knew he had to do everything the same to that time to avoid a paradox.

[Iggman88]

I think Marty's thought was to go back before he (past him) got there, and would have if not for the Delorean dieing on him.

I don't think the thing with the Lybians could be avoided, Doc needed plutonium and that was the only source.

Doc would have knowingly sent Marty back "again" to complete the time loop that was already in motion.

[doodo!]

Originally Posted by Iggman88

I think Marty's thought was to go back before he (past him) got there, and would have if not for the Delorean dieing on him.

I don't think the thing with the Lybians could be avoided, Doc needed plutonium and that was the only source.

Doc would have knowingly sent Marty back "again" to complete the time loop that was already in motion.

I'll buy that. I had not considered that 10 times was enough time. But I guess it could of worked out to be enough, barely...

Well this loop is hard to justify as it's a time loop through alternative time lines...and yet the time lines have merged into one...??

??

LOL...

But, I suppose it's valid that it's hard to get fuel, but by the time of movie two it's Mr.Fusion.

Originally Posted by Michael J Fox is Canadian

first off marty doesn't know about the rules of time travel yet and doesn't learn about the 'other self' paradoxes until the next film.
doc knew he had to do everything the same to that time to avoid a paradox.

But, if it's an alternative time line to begin with and everything's different then why would old Marty still be there to begin with doing the same thing he was doing? Ok, it's believable he be there...but why would Doc set this up again?

I ask, BECAUSE...His parents have changed, everything is different but old Marty is still there going back in time to a now ALTERNATIVE PAST BECAUSE it's an alternative future he is traveling back from...So he's going back to a alternative 1955 as it's an alternative 1955 future..., alternative 1985 present.

PARADOX, creates another time line, once again...and that's not what Doc would want. Leaving well enough alone would be best for everyone.

[Awesomepantsman]

If Doc were to decide not to fake his death and send Marty back, then it would undo all Marty did when he was in 1955.

EDIT: The new Marty travels back in time and takes the place of old Marty in 1955

[Shadowknight1]

That would only be true if Marty was no longer Doc's friend. He is, hence he still would have helped with his experiments, therefore no paradox.

[Michael J Fox is Canadian]

Originally Posted by Awesomepantsman

If Doc were to decide not to fake his death and send Marty back, then it would undo all Marty did when he was in 1955.

It's very obvious doc knows whats going on in fact he even knows the time marty is supposed to return at as he set the time circuits for 1:35 (he doesnt realize marty changed it). Doc could have set up the time travel experiment for an hour earlier so he could leave without the libyans not showing up but he does so marty will leave, thinking doc was shot to death, accidently end up in 1955 to keep the time loop going.

[doodo!]

BUT, guys, girls, how can you loop in time when you have alternative times lines that have merged into a alternative time that you're traveling within? Hear what I'm saying?

Originally Posted by Awesomepantsman

EDIT: The new Marty travels back in time and takes the place of old Marty in 1955

I think we're on the same topic but I'm not sure yet.

[Shadowknight1]

Originally Posted by doodo!

BUT, guys, girls, how can you loop in time when you have alternative times lines that have merged into a alternative time that you're traveling within? Hear what I'm saying?

Gotta remember. Back to the Future doesn't follow any set rules of time travel. It kind of makes it up as it goes.

[Michael J Fox is Canadian]

Originally Posted by doodo!

BUT, guys, girls, how can you loop in time when you have alternative times lines that have merged into a alternative time that you're traveling within? Hear what I'm saying?


I think we're on the same topic but I'm not sure yet.

at least from the perspective or part I, everything would have happened in the same manner. In both timelines, marty still would have seen george about to get hit by the car and pushed him out of the way. Now in the new one they meed differently but marty still would have had the disappearing picture and realized he had to get them together.

This theory does kind of get blown away in the sequels when they travel through time inentionally to change the timeline.

[doodo!]

Originally Posted by Michael J Fox is Canadian

at least from the perspective or part I, everything would have happened in the same manner. In both timelines, marty still would have seen george about to get hit by the car and pushed him out of the way. Now in the new one they meed differently but marty still would have had the disappearing picture and realized he had to get them together.

This theory does kind of get blown away in the sequels when they travel through time inentionally to change the timeline.

Ok, wait, I think I get it now. This makes sense.

The time line Marty returns to, no...it doesn't make sense, nevermind. Doc has the note at the same time marty goes back in time to 1955.

The only thing that makes sense is if after Doc makes the time machine, if that alternate time line was already created.Which could make sense. It's a theory that a time machine, device can only "travel" as far back as the creation of its "traveling device". Or, it suggests Destiny, fate of some sort.

Because, the present Marty returns to is the future of the alternative time line that they have changed in the alternative time line past. Doc has the note.

And also, hold up now, it gets real ugly when Marty comes back to the past of the alternative time line because his parents would already be together based on what the other Marty had already done, and their would be two Martys....and even if he replaced the other Marty, things still get really screwed up because things are different and it's just a mess, a complete mess...

There would be two martys, evidence? The second movie, only in reality their would be THREE MARTYS....

Unless one replaced the other but in that order, that wouldn't likely happen. So we now have 3-4 alternative time lines...

It almost would make sense if the time line Marty returned to was the same up until the other Marty time travels back to the past and then the new time line takes over...But doc has the note in his pocket for all those years meaning the changes took effect in that time line immediately.

We're looking at 3-4 time lines if not more.

Why would Doc even try the experiment if he already knew it worked? The loop theory is sort of paradoxed because it's a alternative time line...

[Michael J Fox is Canadian]

Originally Posted by doodo!

Ok, wait, I think I get it now. This makes sense.

The time line Marty returns to, no...it doesn't make sense, nevermind. Doc has the note at the same time marty goes back in time to 1955.

The only thing that makes sense is if after Doc makes the time machine, if that alternate time line was already created.Which could make sense. It's a theory that a time machine, device can only "travel" as far back as the creation of its "traveling device". Or, it suggests Destiny, fate of some sort.

Because, the present Marty returns to is the future of the alternative time line that they have changed in the alternative time line past. Doc has the note.

And also, hold up now, it gets real ugly when Marty comes back to the past of the alternative time line because his parents would already be together based on what the other Marty had already done, and their would be two Martys....and even if he replaced the other Marty, things still get really screwed up because things are different and it's just a mess, a complete mess...

There would be two martys, evidence? The second movie, only in reality their would be THREE MARTYS....

Unless one replaced the other but in that order, that wouldn't likely happen. So we now have 3-4 alternative time lines...

It almost would make sense if the time line Marty returned to was the same up until the other Marty time travels back to the past and then the new time line takes over...But doc has the note in his pocket for all those years meaning the changes took effect in that time line immediately.

We're looking at 3-4 time lines if not more.

Why would Doc even try the experiment if he already knew it worked? The loop theory is sort of paradoxed because it's a alternative time line...

the only way there can be 2 of the same character at the same time is if one eventually leaves due to time travel.

We dont know if Doc still does the one minute experiment in the new timeline. I kind of think he does, he still wanted to get the time travel on tape. He just needs to ensure he witholds all 1955 info from Marty.

[jgbrunn]

Never really thought about it but OP is right. Just in the context of the first film the Marty that goes back in time to 1955 wouldn't of heard the story about his dad being hit by the car etc.. As his dad wouldn't of been, Calvin Klien was. He would of probably just heard the story about how at the enchantment under the sea dance his father stood up to biff and won his moms heart, they may of left out the part that they didn't go to the dance together even. He would probably be trying to set up that scenario instead of getting his parents to go to the dance.

None of that matters though cause who cares about some alternate Marty.

[Cubbie]

Why is everybody still talking about a time loop? Hasn't it been established by now that it's NOT a loop, not even if you look at the first movie independently? I think even the producers said so. And how could it be? Marty changed his past and returned to a different future with a different Marty, who then left for some unknown adventure. That second Marty could actually run into original Marty in 1955 unless Doc made other plans and set a different date. But we don't know, because it was never mentioned.
Besides, I guess not even Doc knows for sure how all this time-travel stuff really works, after all he only just made his first successful time jump. All the studying of time beforehand may have given him a good amount of knowledge to base theories on, but honestly... look at the movies and you'll see he's not very accurate in his predictions. I think most of it is guesswork on his part. Educated guesses surely, but guesses nonetheless. So... long-winded story coming to a close... maybe he just sent the second Marty back in time to be sure. What if it WAS a loop? How could he be sure? How could he even know the past (original Marty's past) has in fact changed? He was definitely aware of the possibility as seen at the end of Part I, but he didn't know the original history well enough to be sure it changed drastically.
....now where was I? Oh yeah, it's NOT a loop!

[Iggman88]

Who is to say the time ripple caught up to present time when 2nd Marty made the jump? Didn't Marty run up to Doc, shake him and he was non responsive, (no blood yes, but that could be due to movie rating) then 30sec later he's awake/ "alive"? (i don't remember exactly) /shrug for the sake of argument xD

[doodo!]

Originally Posted by Iggman88

Who is to say the time ripple caught up to present time when 2nd Marty made the jump? Didn't Marty run up to Doc, shake him and he was non responsive, (no blood yes, but that could be due to movie rating) then 30sec later he's awake/ "alive"? (i don't remember exactly) /shrug for the sake of argument xD

To be fair, the only way to work around story flaws with time travel is to find a Loop hole of some sort,

As we know it, it's para science, psuedo science, science fiction, but it's not, but heck if I defend that...

But, sociologically, we have the luxury to write novels, movies, books, songs on time travel, games even...so it's natural to find a abstract, creative solution to time traveling flaws as in this state of consciousness, awareness, it's more fantasy and fiction than it is reality...

This ripple thing might make sense.

[JonathanDeLorean]

I don't know if anyone has written this yet but. Timeline A = Doc dies, he has no letter, Marty disappears with the timemachine and he NEVER returns to that timeline. He then end up in the timeline B (or timeline As past, which quickly changes in to timeline B) Timeline B = Happy Life, doc does not die, he has the letter, Timeline B Marty disappears with the TL B timemachine and he NEVER returns to that timline. Then he in Timeline C ends up in Timeline Bs past (in which he may or may not change the past, we don't know) Then Marty from Timeline A arrives in Timeline B and takes TLB Martys place, doc suvives and everything takes of from there!

[doodo!]

I think I agree with this, but it's still pretty screwed up. The whole thing about Time Line A changing to B is the issue here. Their the same, they merge, but the problem is that Doc has the letter for over 30 years in both time lines...but he didn't have it in time line A...

[Shadowknight1]

I think the thing we're all missing here is that the timeline obviously tries to repair itself, or give time to allow for the time travelers to fix things. Otherwise, Marty would've faded out of existence the moment his mom wanted to get in his pants instead of his dad's.

[doodo!]

Originally Posted by Shadowknight1

I think the thing we're all missing here is that the timeline obviously tries to repair itself, or give time to allow for the time travelers to fix things. Otherwise, Marty would've faded out of existence the moment his mom wanted to get in his pants instead of his dad's.

Yes, but why would doc be alive in time line A , even if it was time line B, would why A and B be the same time lines?

I think the real answer is the writing was just honoring the concept of having a cliff hanging in the movie that was changed with time travel.