E3 - Brief new King's Quest info

[MusicallyInspired]

None of course. Which is why I mentioned both of them as my example for referencing a proper KQ game's style.

[Valiento]

To say KQ7 has puzzles is almost stretching it, sure it has a couple of good ones. But most of the puzzles in the game are glorified fetch quests. Characters tell you what they need, and what to do, and then you go do it, bring stuff back. Beyond that it was a matter of looking for sparkly hotspots on the screen to let you know what you could manipulate.... Then for that matter each chapter really only had two or three items you pick up, and those items were more or less only useful for that chapter... And you could start the game from any chapter! The one or two items that could be missed in a previous chapter, appear in a different location if you missed it previously, for example the fragrant flower.

Seriously many reviewers were harsh with that game, many saying it was more like watching a cartoon movie catering to small children then playing a puzzle solving adventure game.

The only thing I can say for it is it did offer a couple of alternate puzzle solutions for one or two puzzles, such as how to get rid of the scorpion. But then they released version 2.0 which dumbed it down even further complete removing a few timer puzzles and the deaths that went along with them! For example the volcano no longer has a chance of erupting in the final chapter!

[Diduz]

I remember KQ7 got me stuck on a musical puzzle (I cannot recognize and/or replay notes, it'a problem of mine) and on the whole


"taking the faux shop with a grain of salt". I'm Italian, so I had some problems in getting a solution out of an idiom.

[Valiento]

Ya the music puzzles, gave me some trouble as well. I knew what I needed to do, the dragonettes made it obvious. But not that good at remembering the notes or the order, I suppose. Maybe don't have the best ear for music. But that's not really an adventure game-style puzzle (it doesn't involve inventory items), at least traditional adventure games. It's more of a puzzle game type puzzle. Or at least puzzle/adventure hybrid, like Seventh Guest. There was Loom, though that made the puzzles into that type of puzzle only...

Btw I'd say that BTTF has puzzles, even adventure game style puzzles. But the puzzles are pretty much ripped from the cliched stale depths of puzzles used and abused almost twenty years ago. So far many of them have been variations on the hand gestures puzzle in Monkey Island II, or the even more stale slide the newspaper under the door to get a key. Probably the most over used adventure game trope from the adventure game design hand book. These puzzles might have been original decades ago but now those ideas no longer present a challenge. There is seriously a lack of the originality in puzzle game design anymore.

[Blackthorne519]

I don't think Roberta Williams would have come back even if offered 100% control. Ken has said, many times, that they have no interest in that any more. They seem to be very occupied with their sailing and traveling, and I don't think she wants to go back to working on games.

I'm not going to speculate anything that Tell Tale is doing with this until I see SOMETHING from them.


Bt

[Valiento]

She used to make escapist adventures, now she can afford to take real adventures to escape....

To be honest Roberta's greatest strength was pushing the adventure game genre forward by pushing the technology forward. She was more about presentation less about story. She looked at technology and figured how to use that technology to design a better game, the games were designed to take advantage of the technology. There was a time when she pushed the whole computer industry forward (getting people to buy into new devices and hardware just to be able to play her games). They were uber tech demos. Now she would be so far behind that I'm not sure she would have ideas that would be revolutionary or original. She probably would be clueless, as I understand it she doesn't even really play games at all, so she likely wouldn't have any ideas how to push things further.

I'm pretty sure almost anything that comes out will be more retro for nostalgia purposes rather than truly innovative in themselves. The whole episodic gaming and digital download technologies are no longer innovative. Roberta also wanted to push the series toward massively multiplayer gaming, but that is no longer truly innovative idea. The lack of innovation would be missing out on one of the essential aspects of being a Roberta Williams or KQ game.

[MusicallyInspired]

That's an interesting point, actually. King's Quest was the flagship of Sierra for a reason. It showcased all of Sierra's newest technology. Innovated it even. Furthermore, created it out of a "what if we could do this?" attitude. Very few game companies have this attitude nowadays. Least of all Telltale. They innovate nothing. You can praise them all you want but it's true. They do not innovate.

Maybe that's another one of the big reasons why we loved King's Quest so much. It showcased new methods of game design that weren't possible until King's Quest invented it. That's something Telltale can never follow up on unless they change their whole business strategy as a company.

Thought-provoking post, Valiento.

[Valiento]

I think only Nintendo has the innovative spirit anymore and that is shown through their game and system design and flagship games. Even if it comes off being gimmicky at times.

Telltale was only really innovative their first year, when they created the quick release episodic format, that other companies are now copying. Valve attempted the episodic distribution as well but really failed. Valve got the whole digital download service going through Steam though.

Now Telltales' 'claim' to 'innovation' has something to do with a Pilot program to give aspiring designers a chance to create new games series.
http://ixdasf.ning.com/forum/topics/...er-games-award

[MusicallyInspired]

(I guess you meant Valve when you said Steam)

Yeah. Nintendo are the only ones left. And they pay through the nose for it seemingly. I guess it's not surprising no one else dare try. In the words of Ken Williams: "You can't innovate without taking risks."

[Valiento]

Innovation is both a curse and a blessing. It can lead to great things that draw a greater audience to the product, but there is also a risk that it might alienate long time customers, pushing them away, if they are resistant to change.

[MusicallyInspired]

But the benefits of the potential rewards should always outweigh the risk. Developers are just as afraid of change as consumers are.

[Chyron8472]

Originally Posted by MusicallyInspired

I never said KQ6 was the best.

Originally Posted by caeska

But I did. And KQ6 is the best game.

Originally Posted by MusicallyInspired

KQ6 would've been the best.....if KQ5 hadn't existed.

Originally Posted by caeska

You say KQ5 is best, I say KQ6 is...but which opinion is the right one?

Mine is. KQ6 is the best.

I hate Cedric, all of the animal-voice acting, and the glut of nonsensical puzzles in KQ5 like using cheese to make the machine at the end work.

[Valiento]

I still wonder if the cheese machine is a reference to some obscure story somewhere... I may never know!

I did come across this;
Cheez powered time machine But that's apparently something new, some graphic novel. Maybe Roberta was ahead of her time?

Many of those animals in KQ5 were Roberta Williams herself playing the roles! . It was innovative at the time, as it was one of the earliest full-voice CD games on the market. Impressive at the time, but for some hasn't aged well. It also was the first sierra game to bring about the end of the parser. Thought many older fans of the series, criticized that change thinking it dumbed the game down, making things easier!

KQ6 brought rotoscoped animation (with live actors), an impressive for the time 3D introduction scene by Kronos, several well known and respected actors (so it was getting closer to the multimedia Hollywood ideal that Ken and Roberta wanted Sierra to move towards). Not sure if it ever got any criticism?

The thing about inovation, it also gave us things like KQ7 which brought feature length quality animation to computers aimed at a younger more family friendly audience (while her other game at the time, Phantasmagoria pushed movie quality live action, went more towards the mature audiences), and streamlined the interface (reducing it down to a single cursor + inventory), and MOE (which was Roberta's push to bring hardware 3-D graphics and action to PC and the adventure game genre). Both have been controversial to some of older fans, while also bringing new fans to the series.

[philthethrill]

I found this article on Destructoid which says that Telltale is keeping the whole game a secret and won't release it until 2012. http://www.destructoid.com/e3-robert...t-203396.phtml

[caeska]

Originally Posted by Chyron8472

I hate Cedric, all of the animal-voice acting, and the glut of nonsensical puzzles in KQ5 like using cheese to make the machine at the end work.

But but, KQ5 had the poiiiisonous snake in it. KQ6 is still the best, but Cedric is cool nonetheless.

[Mr. Freeze]

Ok, really guys?

You're making all these hasty assumptions based on absolutely nothing and it's honestly making you look like you're hoping that this game is gonna come out bad.

I mean, at least TellTale is trying... of course they probably knew that the likelihood of Robert accepting was slim to none, but they did get some valuable advice out of it so where's the harm in that? Maybe it's something that will help them capture the essence of the games...

[Chyron8472]

We don't hope it will turn out bad, we anticipate that it will. There is a difference.

Granted, there's nothing wrong with being hopeful and open-minded. I'm just... skeptical, that's all.

[Valiento]

I don't know yet, I'll still probably find it fun on some level. I've enjoyed most Telltale offerings so far, and they are good at crafting stories. Even if their games use every cliche in the adventure game puzzle design book. Ideas that were already seen in countless games years ago.

[MusicallyInspired]

I just don't see this as Telltale trying to serve the community by bringing back a beloved classic for the fans. I see it as them taking advantage of a fanbase by churning out another lifeless puzzle-less episodic game to make a buck. Don't get me wrong, I hope I'm proven wrong. And I don't think all of Telltale is like this, just the ones in charge.

It's just that King's Quest was known and loved for things I don't believe Telltale can ever deliver. Innovation, difficulty, and consequences.

[JuntMonkey]

Originally Posted by MusicallyInspired

That's an interesting point, actually. King's Quest was the flagship of Sierra for a reason. It showcased all of Sierra's newest technology. Innovated it even. Furthermore, created it out of a "what if we could do this?" attitude. Very few game companies have this attitude nowadays. Least of all Telltale. They innovate nothing. You can praise them all you want but it's true. They do not innovate.

Maybe that's another one of the big reasons why we loved King's Quest so much. It showcased new methods of game design that weren't possible until King's Quest invented it. That's something Telltale can never follow up on unless they change their whole business strategy as a company.

Thought-provoking post, Valiento.

I've been saying this for years now. Adventure games were popular (relatively speaking) back in the day because they were pushing the technology. When you wanted to show off your new 386, you bought the latest King's Quest game. Even after the advent of first-person shooters, games such as Phantasmagoria and Gabriel Knight 2 came in and were the best-looking games around.

Current fans of the genre like to say that it was always all about the story and characters, because they want to feel as if adventure games are the "intelligent" genre and that they are more cultured than those adolescent FPS players. But as I've said ad nauseum, that is not the case.

There was a thread in the main forum here recently about multiplayer adventure games. Many people pooh-poohed the idea, saying that cooperative adventure games are not possible for various reasons. There was a thread elsewhere about the possibility of open-world adventure games. This was pooh-poohed as well, because adventure games simply cannot be done in an open-world environment.

That's the anti-innovative thinking that we're dealing with, and it's why the genre has been in this gross rut for over a decade. It's arguably devolved since 1999, and until the players and developers get out of this box and start innovating again, adventure games are going to remain a cute little niche casual genre.