BTTF "Share your disappointment" Thread

[Rather Dashing]

Originally Posted by 63cohen

Or, you just like thinking because you have played so many of these adventure games, that someone must be a moron to not get some of these puzzles. It is as simple as that. Newbie's to the style find it challenging, while veterans might not.

It is insulting to be called a moron, especially by an elitist like yourself.

It's not an elitist who asks to have interactivity in their games, to have a game world respond to their actions(rather than having Marty say "Nah" or have another character interrupt your dialog choice with a generic response). It is not elitist to think that a puzzle that literally has less input points than a toddler's shape-matching puzzle is dumb when sold to adults. It is not elitist to think that having a hint slider and three-stages of hints for a puzzle that disables your inventory and involves clicking the ONE OBJECT on the screen that you even CAN click is insulting. It is impossible to have trouble in these games without having severe reasoning problems with which I frankly don't think a person can actually live through life normally.

[63cohen]

Originally Posted by Rather Dashing

It's not an elitist who asks to have interactivity in their games, to have a game world respond to their actions(rather than having Marty say "Nah" or have another character interrupt your dialog choice with a generic response). It is not elitist to think that a puzzle that literally has less input points than a toddler's shape-matching puzzle is dumb when sold to adults. It is not elitist to think that having a hint slider and three-stages of hints for a puzzle that disables your inventory and involves clicking the ONE OBJECT on the screen that you even CAN click is insulting. It is impossible to have trouble in these games without having severe reasoning problems with which I frankly don't think a person can actually live through life normally.

Again, you aren't above those new to the style of game play.

You paid for this, have fun losing 25 bucks dude.

[Rather Dashing]

And those who are new aren't being taught or shown anything new. They're being given a film and nothing more. They are being treated like children, and I(as a child of four or five years old) was playing games that got FAR more complex when I entered the genre, and I have no reason to think I was so intelligent or that I'm so special as to expect LESS than myself at five years old from a grown adult that is new to genre.

As for losing $25, actually, I didn't. I lost a $25 credit as part of a split contest prize, but I didn't actually lose any MONEY on this piece of shit.

[corruptbiggins]

People are getting too worked up over this. At the end of the day all that really matters if you liked the game or not. It's not essential that everyone must share the same opinion (actually it would be very boring if we did). These arguments are just running in circles as no one is going to change their mind and no amount of petty bickering and name calling is going to alter that fact.

I liked the game. That's fine. Other people don't. That's fine too.

[Prender]

Rather Dashing, would it hurt you to be a little less insulting please? We all know you hate the game, but if you could cut back on the contempt for those who enjoyed it, it would be greatly appreciated.

I myself, actually quite enjoyed it. For the same reasons why I enjoyed things such as Yoda Stories or IJ and his Desktop Adventures. I'm currently working two jobs, and a problem is that I don't have much time to myself to game as much as I'd like to, which is why I found BttF to be a perfect fit for me. Currently available time for me is scarce. Being able to quickly play a game whilst doing other activities, whether it be washing clothes or cooking dinner, etc, is of importance to me, and I for one am grateful to the guys at Telltale.

[Rather Dashing]

Originally Posted by Prender

Rather Dashing, would it hurt you to be a little less insulting please? We all know you hate the game, but if you could cut back on the contempt for those who enjoyed it, it would be greatly appreciated.

I've never once shown any contempt toward anyone for having an opinion. Not once. Laserschwert, someone who enjoys this title(I can't fathom WHY, but this is what he has expressed) is one of the people on these forums I most highly respect.

[GuruGuru214]

Guys, Rather Dashing is entitled to his opinion as much as anyone. His viewpoint may not be popular in this section of the forum, but that doesn't make it any less valid. Dashing has been around longer than most of us, and is generally a well-respected member of the forums with very well-thought ideas. Unfortunately, the often negative context and phrasing of his posts tends to overshadow this. Personally, I find posts like this

Originally Posted by 63cohen

OMG, what the hell. Shut up if you are going to speak nonsense. The target audience is right in front of you, bttf fans. There are enough fans to keep the game going, and it is good enough that they keep coming back.

I rarely make posts like this, but what the hell. You are obviously not in the target, and cannot adjust yourself to it. You have no understanding of how the system works.

to be more abrasive and less constructive than posts like this.

Originally Posted by Rather Dashing

-You have an inventory hovering around 4 items. In general, there are 2-3 items that are never used and whose use never makes even the slightest lick of sense.
-Exploration and experimentation are discouraged
-Most puzzles are solved by clicking the largest(and/or ONLY) thing in screen
-There is a THREE STAGE HINT SYSTEM for these puzzles that a three year-old who has no idea what they're doing could solve in minutes
-There is a MULTI LEVEL HINT SLIDER that has the main character outright SAY the solutions to problems if you wait more than a few seconds, doing what I don't know, because you CAN'T DO ANYTHING ELSE

If this game wasn't inherently designed for morons, if this game wasn't created with anything but the UTMOST CONTEMPT for the player, then it certainly wasn't designed in such a way to repel this assumption. This isn't a game, this is a DIRECT INSULT to anyone that buys it. There is nothing even remotely RESEMBLING value her. This gameSOFTWARE PRODUCT is lacking in content, lacking in interactivity, lacking in proper writing, lacking in everything but voice acting and music. It's 9 part shits for 1 parts value, and to enjoy it is to be blinded by fanboyism.

Does that clear anyone? No. What it does mean is that everyone needs to cool down. Fans of the game, just because someone doesn't share your enthusiasm, it is not a call for you to attack or insult them. Dashing, your disdain for the game is well noted (and for the record, I do understand the difference between saying that "this game is targeted toward morons" and "you would have to be a moron to enjoy this game"), but please try to find less abrasive ways to present your thoughts. I appreciate the step you've taken towards that with your last post.

Now everyone, let's agree to disagree and try to return this topic to civility, lest I have to shut it down.

[Kyronea]

I remember playing adventure games as a little kid. I was raised on the PC. The Quest for Glory series is near and dear to my heart, rather like Back to the Future was and still is.

I wanted to like this. For awhile I had myself deluded that I enjoyed it too, that it was good, high quality writing, etc etc etc.

But I was wrong. Rather Dashing has nailed this on every point.

What makes this worse is that Telltale is known for putting together good quality games. The Sam and Max seasons demonstrate this quite well. And then they put this out. I've said it before and will say it again: It's as if Beethovan or Tchaikovsky were to put out a Justin Beiber song or that auto-tune horribleness "Friday." It's not remotely up to their standards of quality in any way, be it animation, interactivity, puzzlesolving, etc etc. It's trash, as if you were expecting a five star chef meal but were instead fed the wrapper from a package of instant ramen noodles.

[Strayth]

It's not an elitist who asks to have interactivity in their games, to have a game world respond to their actions(rather than having Marty say "Nah" or have another character interrupt your dialog choice with a generic response). It is not elitist to think that a puzzle that literally has less input points than a toddler's shape-matching puzzle is dumb when sold to adults. It is not elitist to think that having a hint slider and three-stages of hints for a puzzle that disables your inventory and involves clicking the ONE OBJECT on the screen that you even CAN click is insulting. It is impossible to have trouble in these games without having severe reasoning problems with which I frankly don't think a person can actually live through life normally.

Oh the episode 4 was so broken by design you actually HAVE to use the hint system to figure out the game is just, as said, broken by design, and then move forward doing something absolutely non logical.

Also, to the fanboys :

You can have a linear and character driven game, and still give the player INTERACTION AND EXPLORING.

I'll never say it enough, but Shadow of Memories, a 10 years old game, nailed it, while it was very linear, it was still very subtle and let you do what you wanted (which is why it's linear, but if you want elaborate new ways to solve something, dig it and you'll find !)

[Kyronea]

You know, the more I think about it, the more I wonder if this was actually intended as a parody. I mean, the ending of OUTATIME is like something out of a bad Back to the Future SNL sketch...everything about the game is bad...could Telltale have been pulling the wool over our eyes?

Granted I don't see any real point to doing that since it gains them nothing, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that that was the case after all.

[Strayth]

I hope people don't get me wrong...

But I think Bob Gale ruined them.

I think they didn't have the balls to step up and to voice their real ideas. They didn't want to upset the guy with his ideas that clearly weren't working for a videogame.

It's not possible that professionals adventure developers, fans of the movies, made something like that.

They were too busy making sure eveyrthing was "ok" to the right owners and to the "spirit" that they lost the most important thing of all : Authenticity.

In the end it's just some really broken patchwork, it's not really an adventure game, it's not really a serious sequel, it's not really anything it was meant to achieve.

I'm still in awe when I play Blade Runner the game. You CAN be faithful to a universe while putting your own ideas that are meant for thrilling gaming experience. Even with a point and click.

They really didn't.

The whole game design is among the most horrible we've seen in the past 10 years... (could be far greater than that).

Only thing "saving" it for some people, is the story, voices, and characters ... That's not what should save a game... (not that it doesn't matter, but it's supposed to be icing on the cake. It can make the difference in the end, but only if the gameplay is average, and not plain broken.)

[Rather Dashing]

I don't think we can speculate as to WHY certain things are lacking. We don't know. It could be any number of things. Telltale's own management, time crunch, Universal, Bob Gale(honestly, I personally don't think this one makes much sense), or simply the designers messing up or getting the wrong idea for any of a wide variety of reasons. All we can really say for certain is that this game has almost no interactivity to it, there's almost no content outside of cutscenes and correct puzzle solutions, exploration is stymied at every turn with invisible walls, an uncooperative camera, and entire sections of the game world NOT EXISTING, and the game hints so strongly about puzzles that you never are given enough room to think. The REASONS for that, well, that's going to remain a mystery, I think.

[63cohen]

The last time Bob Gale wasn't involved, we got the shit that was LJN's version, which Bob Gale has told fans to not buy.

[Rather Dashing]

Originally Posted by 63cohen

The last time Bob Gale wasn't involved, we got the shit that was LJN's version, which Bob Gale has told fans to not buy.

This logic makes no sense. I can also say "The last time they tried to make a Back to the Future video game, we got the shit that was LJN's version, which Bob Gale told fans not to buy", or "the last time they released a game on consoles", or "the last time they made a game starring Marty", and it would be just as relevant. Are you really telling me that NO MATTER WHAT ELSE CHANGES, Bob Gale's involvement or lack thereof is the ONE THING that will doom a project? Do you REALLY think LJN would have done an excellent job if he was involved? Because the NES games were bad for GAMEPLAY reasons too, you know.

[Gman5852]

Originally Posted by Aesculapius

I'm disappointed that people were disappointed in this game. It was an excellent addition to the BTTF series. There are few things I could have wanted more from a sequel. It felt a bit restricted by the adventure game genre of gameplay (though I couldn't think of a better genre for it).

Long story short, I was pleasantly surprised by it, not let down.

The restriction is not because of the genre, but because of how easy the game is. Monkey Island 2 had you sailing around from island to island in freedom, and that is how old? Im sure freedom from time to time was possible.

[Strayth]

You guys got me wrong.
I wasn't implying Bob Gale had no talent or sucked at writing for video games.

I'm saying that his involvement was limited, and clearly, telltale just took his concepts and dragged them on for far too long.

Dashing, how can you not understand, you who noticed to incredible power of the "plot convenience", that makes everything appear or disappear by magic when it needs to ?

When you get this kind of lazy writing for the whole game, that's clearly because they just couldn't handle it and had to drag things on. The story just wasn't controlled, they gave themselves tasks and "things to complete" among each episode, even if it didn't make sense or was bad for the sake of pacing (and you have to admit the whole thing is pretty horrid).

The restriction is not because of the genre, but because of how easy the game is. Monkey Island 2 had you sailing around from island to island in freedom, and that is how old? Im sure freedom from time to time was possible.

If two games have to be brought up when talking about BTTF, it's Blade Runner and Shadow Of Memories. It meets all of those "we want newcomers to the genre" requirements BTTF tried to achieve, while having obvious qualities (as games, even if it was cutscene/story heavy), and interaction, while BTTF had none.

[Rather Dashing]

Originally Posted by Strayth

Dashing, how can you not understand, you who noticed to incredible power of the "plot convenience", that makes everything appear or disappear by magic when it needs to ?

When you get this kind of lazy writing for the whole game, that's clearly because they just couldn't handle it and had to drag things on. The story just wasn't controlled, they gave themselves tasks and "things to complete" among each episode, even it didn't make sense or was bad for the sake of pacing (and you have to admit the whole thing is pretty horrid).

While I agree with the basic idea(the writing is horrendously sloppy and relies way too much on contrivances), I think that's a lot more easily explained by:

1. Wanting to avoid giving the player ANY WORK. Being horrified at the prospect of the player actually thinking and then having their brain explode from frustration, things "just happen" because a logical reason that stems from the player's actions would require something resembling effort on the part of the player.

2. Multiple chapter lead designers not really working out how episodes flow into each other. We know that scripts are written and episodes are designed by different people, which works when you're making a sitcom, but more oversight needs to be taken when something is more narrative. We actually saw a bit of this in Tales of Monkey Island(if Elaine knew about the afterlife and that Guybrush would come back as implied at the end of part 5, why was she crying at his death?). There is a disturbing lack of inter-episode oversight or communication. You can see this especially in the stories of Young Emmett and Trixie. Their lives are RUINED in one episode, and then magically fixed in the next. Episode designers and the script between them implies to me that writers simply are NOT working in tandem, making the episode to episode story nothing short of a jumbled mess.

3. Time Crunch. I seriously can't believe that the lack of anything outside the main options makes sense from a "new player" standpoint. There must have been some serious scheduling issues with this project for them release a game that is THIS bare bones content-wise. Even if the game was easy, they SHOULD have been able to produce funny dialogs for the few actions that you can perform otherwise. Is it a stretch to say that Marty should react to trying to use newspapers in the recycling bins? That certain people deserve more than a "I don't think they'd be interested in that" comment when shown George's picture? Particularly, you know, George? They stuffed in a bare skeleton of a game, and I don't think they ELECTED to or NEGLECTED to include the meat, part of it has to be that they simply didn't have TIME.

4. Just regular sloppy writing, plain and simple.

[63cohen]

Originally Posted by Rather Dashing

This logic makes no sense. I can also say "The last time they tried to make a Back to the Future video game, we got the shit that was LJN's version, which Bob Gale told fans not to buy", or "the last time they released a game on consoles", or "the last time they made a game starring Marty", and it would be just as relevant. Are you really telling me that NO MATTER WHAT ELSE CHANGES, Bob Gale's involvement or lack thereof is the ONE THING that will doom a project? Do you REALLY think LJN would have done an excellent job if he was involved? Because the NES games were bad for GAMEPLAY reasons too, you know.

I think if he was involved, he would have kicked LJN to the curb. But then again, LJN never worked with the producers, which is why they produced shit constantly.

[Rather Dashing]

HE couldn't have kicked them to the curb. They had a licensing deal with Universal. The best, the VERY BEST, he could have done would be to give advice and hope it was followed.

[63cohen]

Originally Posted by Rather Dashing

HE couldn't have kicked them to the curb. They had a licensing deal with Universal. The best, the VERY BEST, he could have done would be to give advice and hope it was followed.

By the time he saw what they were doing, it was already too late. It was in one of those recent interviews.