Who is your favorite guitarist

[GuruGuru214]

Originally Posted by Hayden

Mike Portnoy (formerly of Dream Theater)

Oh, HELL yes. Getting to see him play live with Avenged Sevenfold was an incredible experience.

[DAISHI]

People in this thread are making me partially LAWL. Complexity does not equate to quality from the average listener's perspective.

[Hayden]

Originally Posted by DAISHI

People in this thread are making me partially LAWL. Complexity does not equate to quality from the average listener's perspective.

No, it doesn't. But some technicality/complexity mixed in with catchy/pleasant music is always nice. No, it doesn't directly equate to quality or enjoyment, but it can often enhance it if it's added to the music.

[DAISHI]

I technically agree. I've played music for... 24 years now? On piano, guitar, drums and a few other instruments. But Paul said the world wants simple love songs while Lennon wanted to experiment and I believe Paul was more revelatory in that respect, in the end.

[JedExodus]

Originally Posted by DAISHI

People in this thread are making me partially LAWL. Complexity does not equate to quality from the average listener's perspective.

This is true, but they don't have to answer to anyones musical taste but their own.

Complexity's all well and good when it has a point other than gaudy showmanship. It obviously goes without saying that many renowned classical pieces are technical marvels, not just in terms of virtuoso musicianship but also composition, compelxity in these pieces means something and appeals to the everyman because of the rich tapesty it creates.

Originally Posted by DAISHI

I technically agree. I've played music for... 24 years now? On piano, guitar, drums and a few other instruments. But Paul said the world wants simple love songs while Lennon wanted to experiment and I believe Paul was more revelatory in that respect, in the end.

That's all well and good, simple love songs are your bread and butter, but every so often you need to push boundaries to get somewhere new. Experimentation is how new genres are born, for better or worse.

I loathe Dream Theatre though whilst we're half talking about them. It's just a bunch of lads dangling their music degrees in front of the audience with not a thought for melody or musical sensibility. The band members have spawned one song I like, and it was one of Petrucci's solo affairs. Even large sections of it are quite stinky though, but I cannot fault that main hook and melody. Technical but serves a point.

He's still a souless music nerd though.

[bobber56]

JedExodus. Never mention the one who should not be mentioned. And you are insane if you think she is number 1.

[Hayden]

Originally Posted by JedExodus

I loathe Dream Theater though whilst we're half talking about them. It's just a bunch of lads dangling their music degrees in front of the audience with not a thought for melody or musical sensibility. The band members have spawned one song I like, and it was one of Petrucci's solo affairs. Even large sections of it are quite stinky though, but I cannot fault that main hook and melody. Technical but serves a point.

He's still a souless music nerd though.

I'm just curious, what of Dream Theater's music have you actually heard? Because I've heard this opinion spouted quite often, and it's rarely expressed by people who have heard little of the band beyond, say, "Pull Me Under" and "Dark Eternal Night".

I mean, I'm guessing you're basing your opinion of the band on a little more than most people do; you've probably explored them a bit more than most, since you've been able to stumble upon John Petrucci's solo work. But I just don't get the sentence "[they have no thought] for melody or musical sensibility." Because, personally, I find that they do pay attention to these things. Yes, admittedly they do take their opportunities for a bit of fretwankery, but I find that most of the soloing is generally done in a way that works with the music and lifts the song overall. And I find that even the complex, long, grandiloquent instrumental sections do hold some quite an amount of aesthetic appeal.

Yes, they're showing off, but to say that they give "no thought to melody or musical sensibility" is just wrong. It's the difference between that Animals As Leaders track I reviewed over in the 'Rate the Last Song(s) You Heard' thread, and one of the solos out of "Blind Faith". Sure, they're both fast and showy, but I certainly know which one has some life to it, and has an actual purpose.

And, as for the purely melodic side of things, go listen to a song like "Solitary Shell" and tell me that melody hasn't been given any consideration here.

And then there's tracks such as "These Walls", which is focused primarily on the creating a cohesive, succinct, self-contained song; it's song-orientated, rather than jam-orientated, and you'll find tracks like this scattered throughout DT's discography.

Sorry to bombard you with links and verbose counter-arguments, but I just think that what you said was unfair and... well, wrong. That, and I'm highly defensive of the things that I enjoy a lot. Sorry for that .

[JedExodus]

Originally Posted by Hayden

Sorry to bombard you with links and verbose counter-arguments, but I just think that what you said was unfair and... well, wrong. That, and I'm highly defensive of the things that I enjoy a lot. Sorry for that .

Not at all! Always good to shoot the shit with someone, even if you don't see eye to eye.

You're absolutely right, I was being unfair. DT aren't always whoring it up with indulgent showboating, they can hold back and put together a coherent song. BUT, and of course there's a but, when they do it's just not interesting. There's the odd good wee riff here and there, and even some solo's I would classify as 'good' (get me being the snob, right? ) but it's just all very so-so.

To me the songs are still just a platform to showcase the skillz of the band, so the content there that's more restrained is just a bit dull to me. It's probably a by-product of myself being brought up on Punk Rock and two minute songs, but every second should count!! If you don't have the content then don't pad your song out with so-so stuff.

To me this is an example of the perfect rock song. The style may not be for everyone but it meets my criteria

-there's not a wasted moment
-kicks ass
-there's always something interesting happening (harmonies, octave chords, changes from minor to major, chunky riffs, drum fills, solos etc.)
-musicianship is tight
-doesn't outstay its welcome
-has that special unqantifiable quality that makes a great piece
-kicks ass

[Alcoremortis]

Originally Posted by JedExodus

To me this is an example of the perfect rock song. The style may not be for everyone but it meets my criteria

I dunno. This is a better rock song in my opinion.

[DAISHI]

It just became apparent that I have different tastes from JedExodus in music.

[JedExodus]

Originally Posted by DAISHI

It just became apparent that I have different tastes from JedExodus in music.

JedExodus doesn't want to sound like a total tit, but he has something of an eclectic musical taste.

Originally Posted by Alcoremortis

I dunno. This is a better rock song in my opinion.

"Made from pressure heat and water" is stuck in my head now.

[DAISHI]

lol. Same here, but our ecclesiastic selection seems to differ on at least this point.

[JedExodus]

Originally Posted by DAISHI

lol. Same here, but our ecclesiastic selection seems to differ on at least this point.

Daishi just ain't hXc enough. Sorry brah!

But aye, ye couldn't listen to hardcore all day, would drive ye spare. It's good for exercise music or if ye needa let off steam.

I'm a sucker for really fast punk

[Hayden]

Originally Posted by JedExodus

Not at all! Always good to shoot the shit with someone, even if you don't see eye to eye.

You're absolutely right, I was being unfair. DT aren't always whoring it up with indulgent showboating, they can hold back and put together a coherent song. BUT, and of course there's a but, when they do it's just not interesting. There's the odd good wee riff here and there, and even some solo's I would classify as 'good' (get me being the snob, right? ) but it's just all very so-so.

Yeah, I get what you're saying, and it's a very fair point. It's unfortunate, but a lot of their best riffs and musical ideas are mostly found in their overblown and most showboat-sy tracks like "Home" or "This Dying Soul" (feel no obligation to listen to all of these, by the way ), which sadly does make them inaccessible to less patient listeners, or listeners who're less tolerant of musical piss-around-ery.

With that being said, though, I do think that Dream Theater are capable of penning tracks that are both concise and entertaining, such as "You or Me". "These Walls", I agree, isn't an overly strong track; it was more just an example used to refute your point, rather than to give an actual good example of good song. But, then again, "You or Me" might be equally as unexciting for you, in which case it just comes down to difference in personal taste in the end.

If you don't have the content then don't pad your song out with so-so stuff.

Yeah, I can also understand this point, almost completely. But, often, I find that the 'padding out' does actually serve a purpose in the song, as it helps set the mood for a track, or helps build to a climax. For example, in "Home", it opens with a minute-and-a-half intro with very little going on, but then, slowly, more elements are added to it, and more begins to actually happen, and then finally the band dives into the main riff, and it's just so satisfying (for me personally, anyway). And I find that that riff wouldn't actually have had the same sort of impact if it wasn't for the minute-and-a-half of 'padding' that precedes it.

So, whilst not overly exciting or enjoyable in itself, it aids in enhancing the piece of music that follows/juxtaposes it.

And, as a listener such as myself, that suits me just fine, since I'm willing to sit through minutes of mediocrity for pieces of the song that I love; that's just the sort of listener I am, and is probably the main reason why I can get such an enormous kick out of Dream Theater.

To me this is an example of the perfect rock song. The style may not be for everyone but it meets my criteria

-there's not a wasted moment
-kicks ass
-there's always something interesting happening (harmonies, octave chords, changes from minor to major, chunky riffs, drum fills, solos etc.)
-musicianship is tight
-doesn't outstay its welcome
-has that special unqantifiable quality that makes a great piece
-kicks ass

See, I like songs like this too. I actually think this is great, and the particular style of the song benefits from being short, quick and to-the-point. But, the thing about DT's music is that it actually often does benefit from having a certain degree of extravagance, overblown-ness and convolution, because it's just a very different style. But I can appreciate both, since I was brought up on quite a range of rock music, which is why I can jumps from listening to, say, Motorhead to Yes and enjoy both just as easily, because I can get just what makes both of those styles/sub-genres great.

[bobber56]

Motorhead is weak.

[Hayden]

Originally Posted by bobber56

Motorhead is weak.

And you're a troll, pure and simple. And a really obvious and bad one at that.

[GuruGuru214]

Bobber, you've been asked before. Don't make derogatory comments without an argument to back them up. Otherwise, you come off as a troll, and there will be punitive action.

[bobber56]

You want an argument? Ok, here is why I don't like Motorhead.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRN39ao_PYk

Screw them if they think they can cover AC/DC!

[Hayden]

I still want an argument.

[bobber56]

Originally Posted by Hayden

I still want an argument.

What, shi*ty AC/DC rip-off bands not good enough for you?