Coin Box Puzzle

[Graywing]

Originally Posted by Chuck

And there was absolutely nothing snide about my remark, and I don't see why people are taking offense at it (apart from the obvious fact that this is the internet).

Always blame it on the internet what has poor ol' internet ever done to you! (wait.. on second thought, I could think of a bazillion things it has done to everybody..)

Let me give you an example why some people think your comment looks snarly: "Maybe that's an American-centric attitude too, though." this part of your post will place your opinion in quite a different context, it no longer tells the reader "I love to learn new things about other cultures!", but instead people will interpret your opinion as being judgmental e.g. "you non-Americans don't want to learn anything about our culture!".

Being labeled as telltale team member, people will automatically assume your comment represents the opinion of telltale games (even though you've just explained you're not). Therefore they feel their complaints are being disregarded (and will turn into an angry mob).

Originally Posted by Chuck

But several times I've seen players complain about games for being "too American"

Not me, no siree! I like the American appeal the games have, it makes perfect sense to have USD in Scoggings. It's not the currency that makes me frown, but the implementation of the puzzle (I would probably dislike this puzzle even more if it were with unlabeled rupees because that wouldn't even make sense story wise).

Lets say I agree to disagree on this one (otherwise this will drag on and on and on and on), and hope telltale will learn from this lengthy topic while making puzzle agent 3

[Suraht]

A minor point to make here...while it makes total sense that the coins were American, with the game set in the US, the depiction of them should at least have been the backs of the coins, which includes the value of the coin written out...the penny actually has "One Cent" written on the back, the nickel "Five Cents", the dime "One Dime", the quarter "Quarter Dollar", and the dollar coin has "One Dollar". This wouldn't have removed all the problems, but would have given people unfamiliar with the coins a much easier time in looking up the information about them.

[Pirateguybrush]

Originally Posted by Graywing

It makes perfect sense to have USD in Scoggings. It's not the currency that makes me frown, but the implementation of the puzzle

Exactly. Having US coins would have been fine if they were easily identifiable to everyone else, and preferably showing the denominations as well.

[Bloody Eugene]

Originally Posted by Chuck

I think it's the more interesting kind of puzzle -- taking real information that you've just learned (instead of arbitrary rules presented to you and immediately forgotten), and then applying them.

True.
But you remembered me that Myst clone where the game asked me to do an exadecimal to binary math convertion - and I didn't have access to internet at that time.
It was stressful and painful. I didn't like it a bit.

BTW, the Coin puzzle - aside the obvious cultural problem - at least is something a little bit difficult! :-)
Liking the game very much, thank you Chuck!

[Bloody Eugene]

Originally Posted by Chuck

* In fact, when I was an employee, one of the most appealing things about the TTG forums was that they allowed open discussion between developers and fans that you don't get from larger studios. One of the things that quickly ruined that was when posters stopped acting like people united over an interest in games and started behaving like "customers" who were making complaints about a "product." Maybe that's inevitable whenever the size of the audience grows past a certain point, but it's still a shame.

Don't you think the insider forums would be great for that? I feel that they have a greater potential than now.
And, aside that, I think that pre-release forum (like the King's quest one) are pretty good and people are united by interests. Things will surely change when the "product" will be sold to "customers".

[Ignatius]

My two cents on the coin puzzle:
(see what i did...?)

I belive that anyone around my age, spent many good moments playing "Where in the world is Carmen San Diego", and im sure lots of you played it with an encyclopedia near by to look for country facts, and most important, the flags.
Those people, like me, have no problem in reasearching outside the game for clues, but as long as you are aware that that's the kind of game you are playing, with that kind of logic.

In puzzle agent, this and maybe the pi puzzle are the only ones that require an outside instruction, every other puzzle can be solved with elements provided inside the game.
So it was a bit unexpected.
Not bad, or wrong, or something to make a big fuss like this thread, but it wasn't totally right either, just a minor flaw.

[HoboStew]

Originally Posted by Ignatius

In puzzle agent, this and maybe the pi puzzle are the only ones that require an outside instruction, every other puzzle can be solved with elements provided inside the game.

That's why we put those 2 in as side puzzles, not necessary to continue the story. We even toyed with the idea of saving them for bonus puzzles after you completed the story, but they felt like the kind of puzzles Korka would have lying around her house. I can sympathize with the argument that you shouldn't have to look things up to solve the puzzles. I personally feel having them as side puzzles added more than it subtracted.

[Bloody Eugene]

Originally Posted by HoboStew

I personally feel having them as side puzzles added more than it subtracted.

Seconded.
And it's right to have put those 2 puzzles in that location - it suits perfectly.

[Spadge]

I am one of those gamers, who think looking in the Internet for game solutions is a type of cheating. It's my mindset. I just feel stupid and dirty doing something like that, since it's a surrender of sorts. For me alt-tabing and checking the Web is admitting defeat and I really don't like doing it.
Just add values on the coin faces, or maybe a "rules" screen that gives you the value of each coin. Otherwise it's just poor puzzle design.

[Molokov]

Anyone remember the website "Puzzle Donkey"? Almost ALL of their puzzles required you to go search for stuff on the internet and learn something new.

(I never did manage to complete PD4, and now it's all gone... )

[Linque]

HoboStew, at the very least the first hint should've told the numeric values of each coin.

[Holywhippet]

I figured it was some kind of binary progression but (possibly because I didn't know the coin value) guessed the wrong type of progression. I figured each coin in ascending value represented a different binary number column. So I guessed the one that I thought was third in ascending value.

Really I don't think any puzzle should assume any kind of prior knowledge - so things like the pi value and the last puzzle (the days of the year) aren't really a good idea since you have to have that particular knowledge and recall it.

I've heard this was a problem with some early IQ tests - they were asking questions which assumed certain knowledge rather that giving you all the required facts.

[HoboStew]

Originally Posted by Linque

HoboStew, at the very least the first hint should've told the numeric values of each coin.

Fair enough. When we update the game, the hint will be updated to reflect this. Hope that helps!

[Linque]

Thank you for listening. I believe it will help out many who play the game and are stuck in the puzzle.

[Hassat Hunter]

Same here.
I didn't know the values, but figured it would go along...

"lowest value, second lowest, lowest + second lowest" so the answer would be just "third lowest" (I pretty much 1'ed every 'next in the sequence' test though).

But it wasn't... atleast the coin I *think* was third lowest. Then tried another that might have been. Nope? Well, only one left. And that was apparently a dollar and the solution, for ways I would only learn after solving them.

Yeah, there were several annoying puzzles in here (the sign one with the energy anyone?), more than PA1. Or maybe that's just a faulty memory. Did know I liked this game less than PA1. Story's majorly fumbled, puzzles are more mathical (less in my book) and it felt shorter. And being a sequel, that didn't help either.
I guess I sadly have to agree with TTG's quality getting lower

EDIT:
Getting some other thinking people in to test would help a lot. So many unclear puzzles that you just have to fail to get an idea what to do. Solutions which would have worked under the given rules, but apparently there were more rules unmentioned (sure there is a path now, but you're stupid, you need it completely locked off, no sideways), hint which where just plain wrong or part of one solution of many (sun's have the same value, 5 lead to the computer)...

EDIT2:
And then there was the "gnomes and the moon" puzzle. Where I figured they jumped off (did it ever said anywhere they arrived?) so I kept trying to 'fix' the order in reverse for 5 tries before finally using hints... "they arrive" *facepalm*