Best and Worst KQ game?

[exo]

A game is not a spin-off just because you deem it to be.

See that big number 8 in the title? Ya, that's because it is the 8th game in a series.

[Blackthorne519]

It was released as King's Quest: Mask of Eternity in the US.
Not King's Quest 8.

Bt

[Lambonius]

Originally Posted by exo

A game is not a spin-off just because you deem it to be.

See that big number 8 in the title? Ya, that's because it is the 8th game in a series.

Yeah, as Bt said--Sierra acknowledged how different it was and essentially established it officially as a spin-off by removing the number from the title. It is only numbered in the European release, I believe. And you know what they say about Europeans.

[Chyron8472]

Originally Posted by Blackthorne519

It was released as King's Quest: Mask of Eternity in the US.
Not King's Quest 8.

And Sierra On-Line was a US based company.

[techie775]

Originally Posted by BagginsKQ

Actually compare KQ1AGI to KQ2, and you'll see that KQ1 was by the more the most simple of the early games... KQ2 added more or less linear plot/development (via the door), and introduction movie... KQ1 original didn't really have an intro, and pretty much set the player to randomly explore and solve things... KQ2 is also about twice as large as KQ1 in amount of content, and puzzles.

BTW, I think that KQ2RTS story is crap... It's too gimmicky, changes the story from the original too much... It does many of the same things that The Silver Lining did to the series... Fanfictiony stuff, like 1000 year prophecies, Black Cloak Society tied into everything... The angsty dramatic stuff... But eh I've discussed this in other threads ad nauseum... I won't go much further... I'm serious glad its only fan fiction...

Hey that's fine that's your opinion. I enjoyed KQ2VGA+ , it reminded me of KQ6 but I can see why you'd disagree with the changes. My biggest problem with KQ2 was the manual led you to beleive that Hagatha would play a big role in the game, but all we get is stealing a bird and we're done with her. i remember hearing that the manual design and game development didn't hook up and get their stories straight but it sure left a disappointing feeling for me when I was playing the game.

[BagginsKQ]

Basically the game and the manual was created by two different authors...

Roberta Williams created the game, the manual was written by Annette Childs.

Annette Childs also went on to write the manual story for KQ3 as well.

I've tried to do some research on her, and I'm not sure if she was a Sierra employee or a third party professional writer... She wrote a few manuals for other companies as well, but that could be after she 'left' Sierra.

In anycase back KQ2, this meant that Roberta focused more on Dracula as the game's uber villain...

Whereas Annetted focused on Hagatha...

Oddly enough, Roberta kinda did the same thing when she wrote the second story prologue for KQ1! Where she made the Witch, Wizard, and Dwarf somewhat more important to the game's backstory, but in original game they were not nearly that important...!

A few discrepencies exist between that second version of the prologue story and the KQ1AGI as well! For example, in KQ1AGI, Edward makes a point that the treasures were legendary treasures 'he's heard of'... Whereas Roberta's updated prologue story, made the treasures out to be 'treasures stolen from Edward"!

Yeah, as Bt said--Sierra acknowledged how different it was and essentially established it officially as a spin-off by removing the number from the title. It is only numbered in the European release, I believe. And you know what they say about Europeans.

Actually, the number was removed (although Roberta in articles and interviews still called it King's Quest 8, she and Ken still do!) not because they 'considered' it a spinoff but because they didn't want new players to feel they needed to play previous games in the series to enjoy it. Roberta always called it KQ8 in her personal correspondance, even after the game's release. Early versions of the American release also contained a gold foil emblem that called it the 'eigth game in the King's Quest series' as well.

Keep in mind that around that time quite a few games were droppign their sequel numbers! Previously there was Quest for Glory: Shadows of Darkness (not called QFG4 on the packaging or in game)!


There was Police Quest: Open Season (not called PQ4 on the title screen or packaging).

There was Lost Secret of the Rainforest (didn't even bother to list the fact it was the sequel to EcoQuest).

The Beast Within (didn't even number itself, although there was a note it was a 'Gabriel Knight Mystery').


Leisure Suity Larry 2 isn't called Larry 2...

The Dr. Brain games never bothered to number their games at all. The Dagger of Amon Ra, didn't bother to number the game at all (although Roberta referred to it as LB2)!

Btw, Did you know Roberta nearly dropped the number from KQ7 as well (probably for the same reasons, not force new players into thinking they had to buy previous games in the series to enjoy them)!

A game is not a spin-off just because you deem it to be.

This is true... Besides if Roberta had truly wanted to distance it from KQ as a 'spinoff' (which as we know she didn't), she could have dropped the "King's Quest" (from the title altogether).

BTW, the King's Quest wasn't the only series of that era, that change directions to survive the decline of adventure game genre... Adding new features, or moving in a different direction for series! To the chagrin of some of the old fans...

Look at Broken Sword 3 which consists primarily of box puzzles, stealth gameplay, and timed action sequences! With next to no regular adventure inventory puzzles!

Quest for Glory V, dropped the adventure aspects, and went straight action-RPG! It was no longer advertised as an 'Adventure" or "Adventure-RPG".

The Dr. Brain series went from Puzzle-Adventures and went pure 'puzzle'.

Gabriel Knight 3, went 3D, and added alot of time specific puzzles (easily miss half the game, if you aren't in the right place at the right time)...

Police Quest series turned into RTS (PQ:SWAT2), and finally FPS (but ultimately started dropping "Police Quest" from the title)!

Quite a few classicaly 2-D games went into the realm of 3-D with often mixed results...

Ultima XI almost completely changed directions in style from previous games, when it went 3D. Becoming more of a platformer RPG...

Mario 64 is very different than 2D marios...

3D Castlevanias are very different than their 2D counterparts...

You could go on and on... The rise of 3D had a huge influence on the direction of games...

[MusicallyInspired]

Originally Posted by techie775

Hey that's fine that's your opinion. I enjoyed KQ2VGA+ , it reminded me of KQ6 but I can see why you'd disagree with the changes. My biggest problem with KQ2 was the manual led you to beleive that Hagatha would play a big role in the game, but all we get is stealing a bird and we're done with her. i remember hearing that the manual design and game development didn't hook up and get their stories straight but it sure left a disappointing feeling for me when I was playing the game.

You also have a final showdown with Hagatha at the end of the game in KQ2+. She was a huge part of the story, though, and had a lot of presence in the game, even if most of it was in cutscenes. Still counts in my opinion. How much did you actually interact with Alhazred in KQ6? Or Mordack in KQ5?

[BagginsKQ]

Are you replying to the wrong topic? Favorite villains?

I wasn't talking about KQ2+, and I don't count KQ2+....

I was speaking about KQ2:Romancing the Throne (aka KQ2 by Roberta Williams)

[MusicallyInspired]

I was talking to techi775.

[BagginsKQ]

Techie was also referring to KQ2AGI in the later half of her paragraph.

[MusicallyInspired]

Ah, I misread it.

[techie775]

yes I was talking about KQ2AGI.

[Blackthorne519]

See, all of this will be settled if Tell Tale releases a numbered next game, hmmmm??

Is it 8 or 9??? THIS IS A BIG DEAL.


Bt

[BagginsKQ]

The official collection "King's Quest 7+8", includes "King's Quest VIII", developed by Sierra, published by Activision, released through GOG.com services;

[Blackthorne519]

Good point, Baggins.

Bt

[MusicallyInspired]

I'm pretty sure GoG designed those backgrounds, though, as they do for all the extras for the games they have available.

[BagginsKQ]

The backgrounds are actually pretty old... They go back to old magazine advertisements and the KQ8 Theme Pack (IIRC)...

GoG apparently formatted them into higher res backgrounds though.

Activision must have given them the masters though...

Also GOG has said in the past when questioned, why they didn't release all the SQ or KQ games in one collection, that the publishers themselves decide on the collections (GOG just releases them). That is also one of the reasons why they haven't been able to get permission to include some of the 'expansion' material to some games, such as Privateer. They had to get special permission from the creators of Broken Sword to continue including the originals versions of BS1 and 2 as bonuses, when they added the special editions.

Some series aren't even sold in collections, and sold individually.

Apparently the publishers also have impact on the decision for pricing as well... Which is why some games cost $10 or more...

So basically the companies decide on the collections (or even to release the games individually), and the pricing... I guess it allows the companies to make a little extra on the royalties...

Here is Ken Williams own website;
http://www.sierragamers.com/aspx/m/577672

Although I think some of Ken's personal reliability is thrown out the window, when he calls The Silver Lining, King's Quest IX, and lists it as the next game in the series (though to give benefit of the doubt, its possible that someone else maintains his website, he just has put his name on it, but hasn't actually looked at all the content). Though within the forums, he does short hand to KQ8, or use King's Quest 8 quite a bit. What little I've looked through the archives.

Mark Seibert, the co-producer of KQ8 also calls the game King's Quest VIII;
http://www.markseibert.com/music.htm

Now if you go back to the primary sources (as credible historians do), the original material made during development and little after, from around circa (1995-1999), such as Roberta Williams interviews, as well as Interaction magazine, the various King's Quest Collections, some of the Sierra catalogs, you also find that Roberta Williams consistently called it King's Quest VII or King's Quest 8. The box itself and manual inside that box, also pointed out that it was the eigth game in the series. The manual even included one of those 'what came before' type sections, covering the history up to the events up to the 'current' game. Even the official Hintbook, called it King's Quest 8 as well...

It's kind of like Quest for Glory: Shadows of Darkness, or Police Quest: Open Season, all of the promotional stuff called them QFG4 and PQ4 respectively, but the actual title screens/boxes left off that title! But you could certainly find references pointing out that they were the 4th game in each of their series!

Even PQ promotional material for PQ:Swat and PQ:Swat 2 called those games PQ5 and PQ6 in all promotional material as well.

It wasn't until SWAT3 that they dropped PQ out of all the promotional material. Although they were retroactively put back into the Police Quest series in certain Sierra collections. Such as the Police Quest: SWAT Generation collection (came with SWAT, SWAT2, and SWAT3).

Also, here is another weird example from Activision! Modern Warfare 2, is called Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 on the box! But the title screens and ingame, make no reference to Call of Duty (at least it was that way on initial release)... Instead, the title screen just says Modern Warfare 2.

Marketing and promotion are often complicated...

[MusicallyInspired]

It's actually called the SWAT Career Pack and it comes with the 4 Most Wanted, SWAT 1, SWAT 2, and a demos of SWAT 3 and GK3. Still have the box.

There was that whole ordeal with the executives at Infinity Ward getting axed by ActiVision for no good reason and they fought back with what was in their contracts. Something about any Call of Duty game that was made in modern times? Or maybe only specifically before modern times...I can't remember. Could be part of the reason. At any rate, Modern Warfare has almost become its own franchise now and doesn't need the COD label.

[BagginsKQ]

It's actually called the SWAT Career Pack and it comes with the 4 Most Wanted, SWAT 1, SWAT 2, and a demos of SWAT 3 and GK3. Still have the box.

Nah, I'm speaking of a completely different collection, "Police Quest: SWAT Generation". IT was a 2003 release or so...

Modern Warfare has almost become its own franchise now and doesn't need the COD label.

I kinda agree, except that uses one or two characters who are related to characters from the previous series to link them together.

With the third game, they went back to huge ol "Call of Duty", and called it "Call of Duty: MW3" on the box and title screen (abbreviating the Modern Warfare subtitle).

[MusicallyInspired]

Oh really? Interesting. Does it contain the 4 Most Wanted as well?