Echoes of Time Travelers

[Tornreaper]

Originally Posted by Jennifer

Doc's changes led to the end of his life, so the ripple effect hit him quickly. Marty and the DeLorean weren't unaffected by the ripple effect. They were just affected at a slower rate because Marty is still alive in 1986 in the Citizen Brown timeline, and the DeLorean that the time machine was made from still would have been manufactured in the Citizen Brown timeline (as would the base components that made up the gadgets inside of it).

Bullshit. If Doc faded instantly then Marty and the time machine would at least fade in a couple hours.

[sn939]

Originally Posted by Tornreaper

Bullshit. If Doc faded instantly then Marty and the time machine would at least fade in a couple hours.

Speaking of the Delorean...an interesting point we've all overlooked is that Citizen Brown spends about 6 months repairing the Delorean before traveling back to pick up Marty in Episode 4. Which means that, in one version of the FCB timeline, the Delorean actually lasted for SIX MONTHS without fading!

This leads me to wonder if Marty would have faded AT ALL in any of the alternate timelines...

[Jennifer]

Originally Posted by Tornreaper

Bullshit. If Doc faded instantly then Marty and the time machine would at least fade in a couple hours.

Marty didn't fade in a couple of hours in 1955, despite the fact that he eliminated the chances of his birth. It took a week for him to fade because he was still in the right time period to fix the discrepencies.

There's two ways to look at this:
1) Marty and the DeLorean were in 1986 when Emmett Brown (Citizen Brown) was still alive, so they were in the right time period to fix the discrepencies.

2) Marty put the spark in Citizen Brown's mind about the time machine, so time was still being written in regards to the DeLorean.

Originally Posted by sn939

Speaking of the Delorean...an interesting point we've all overlooked is that Citizen Brown spends about 6 months repairing the Delorean before traveling back to pick up Marty in Episode 4. Which means that, in one version of the FCB timeline, the Delorean actually lasted for SIX MONTHS without fading!

Once Citizen Brown fixed the time machine, the discrepancies in the timeline (that being that the DeLorean never could have existed since Emmett Brown never built it) were repaired.

[Tornreaper]

Originally Posted by Jennifer

Marty didn't fade in a couple of hours in 1955, despite the fact that he eliminated the chances of his birth. It took a week for him to fade because he was still in the right time period to fix the discrepencies.

There's two ways to look at this:
1) Marty and the DeLorean were in 1986 when Emmett Brown (Citizen Brown) was still alive, so they were in the right time period to fix the discrepencies.

2) Marty put the spark in Citizen Brown's mind about the time machine, so time was still being written in regards to the DeLorean.


Once Citizen Brown fixed the time machine, the discrepancies in the timeline (that being that the DeLorean never could have existed since Emmett Brown never built it) were repaired.

What? You can't fix something that DOESN'T EXIST! No amount of repairing can stop something from fading out of existence. It's not possible.

The reason why it took a week for Marty was because the dance was the junction point. The junction point for this change is the science expo which was long ago. Plus there is no reason for time to catch up with Doc instantly but longer for Marty.

[Jennifer]

Originally Posted by Tornreaper

What? You can't fix something that DOESN'T EXIST! No amount of repairing can stop something from fading out of existence. It's not possible.

But the DeLorean did exist. It was still manufactured by the DeLorean motor company, regardless of Doc's intervention. The stuff that didn't exist was the Doc Brown invented gadgets, which is why the DeLorean broke down upon arrival in 1986. Although the base parts would still exist (such as the glass tubes in the flux capacitor for instance. They still exist in the Citizen Brown timeline so that's why it looks like the flux capacitor, but isn't the flux capacitor, since the Doc Brown invented stuff that actually makes it the flux capacitor hasn't been invented). Once Citizen Brown invented the time travel gadgets and installed them into the DeLorean, he fixed the discrepancies in the timeline, since at that point the DeLorean was no longer just a DeLorean, but was a time travelling DeLorean.

Originally Posted by Tornreaper

Plus there is no reason for time to catch up with Doc instantly but longer for Marty.

The changes in 1931 led to Doc's death so he faded quickly just as Biff did in Back to the Future II. Marty and the DeLorean still existed in 1986, so the ripple effect took longer to catch up to them.

[Tornreaper]

Originally Posted by Jennifer

But the DeLorean did exist. It was still manufactured by the DeLorean motor company, regardless of Doc's intervention. The stuff that didn't exist was the Doc Brown invented gadgets, which is why the DeLorean broke down upon arrival in 1986. Although the base parts would still exist (such as the glass tubes in the flux capacitor for instance. They still exist in the Citizen Brown timeline so that's why it looks like the flux capacitor, but isn't the flux capacitor, since the Doc Brown invented stuff that actually makes it the flux capacitor hasn't been invented). Once Citizen Brown invented the time travel gadgets and installed them into the DeLorean, he fixed the discrepancies in the timeline, since at that point the DeLorean was no longer just a DeLorean, but was a time travelling DeLorean.


The changes in 1931 led to Doc's death so he faded quickly just as Biff did in Back to the Future II. Marty and the DeLorean still existed in 1986, so the ripple effect took longer to catch up to them.

The time machine broke because it crashed into a fucking billboard!

There is no proof that Doc died. We also have no idea how old he really is.

It's a plothole. Plain and simple.

[Jennifer]

Originally Posted by Tornreaper

The time machine broke because it crashed into a fucking billboard!

Regardless, the DeLorean still would have existed in that time period as I stated above.

Originally Posted by Tornreaper

There is no proof that Doc died. We also have no idea how old he really is.

We do know old Doc is. Telltale foreshadowed his death by letting the player know that he's older than he should be. He says in It's About Time that he's almost 100.

[sn939]

Originally Posted by Jennifer

Regardless, the DeLorean still would have existed in that time period as I stated above.


We do know old Doc is. Telltale foreshadowed his death by letting the player know that he's older than he should be. He says in It's About Time that he's almost 100.

Honestly, I don't think Doc's precise age was stated at any point in the game. According to the game, he was born in 1914, which would have made him 71 in 1985. He spent over 10 years trapped in 1885, so that made him around 81 chronologically. We don't know how long it has been for Doc in Episode 1 since he last met Marty...but I certainly don't think its been twenty years, or even ten (!)

[Tornreaper]

Originally Posted by Jennifer

Regardless, the DeLorean still would have existed in that time period as I stated above.


We do know old Doc is. Telltale foreshadowed his death by letting the player know that he's older than he should be. He says in It's About Time that he's almost 100.

So that explains why it still had flying parts or that it still had the ability to time travel before the crash? This is a huge hole in your logic.

[Jennifer]

Originally Posted by sn939

Honestly, I don't think Doc's precise age was stated at any point in the game. According to the game, he was born in 1914, which would have made him 71 in 1985. He spent over 10 years trapped in 1885, so that made him around 81 chronologically. We don't know how long it has been for Doc in Episode 1 since he last met Marty...but I certainly don't think its been twenty years, or even ten (!)

Doc said "if I live to be 100, which I almost have" in It's About Time.

He also said Jules and Verne are going to college, which would mean that 19 years had passed since their conception. That would make Doc 90. Add in the amount of time it took Doc and Clara to be married, and the time it took to conceive a child, and the time definitely lines up with Doc's statement that he's almost 100.

Originally Posted by Tornreaper

So that explains why it still had flying parts or that it still had the ability to time travel before the crash? This is a huge hole in your logic.

The DeLorean had the ability to time travel before the crash because the time ripple didn't catch up to it yet since Doc didn't fade from existence until after they traveled through time.

As for the flying parts, they still exist in the timeline in 2015 (and as I mentioned before the future already exists as evidenced by Marty and Jennifer living in the future despite the fact that they hadn't lived it yet), since Doc Brown wasn't the one who invented them. Since they still exist, the time ripple took longer to catch up to it, as it had with Marty and the DeLorean itself.

[Michael J Fox is Canadian]

Originally Posted by Jennifer

Doc said "if I live to be 100, which I almost have" in It's About Time.

He also said Jules and Verne are going to college, which would mean that 19 years had passed since their conception. That would make Doc 90. Add in the amount of time it took Doc and Clara to be married, and the time it took to conceive a child, and the time definitely lines up with Doc's statement that he's almost 100.


The DeLorean had the ability to time travel before the crash because the time ripple didn't catch up to it yet since Doc didn't fade from existence until after they traveled through time.

As for the flying parts, they still exist in the timeline in 2015 (and as I mentioned before the future already exists as evidenced by Marty and Jennifer living in the future despite the fact that they hadn't lived it yet), since Doc Brown wasn't the one who invented them. Since they still exist, the time ripple took longer to catch up to it, as it had with Marty and the DeLorean itself.

good point. Doc does state in the first episode he visited Marty and Jennifer in 2011 so the future does exist (as we also see at the end of the game)

the critical junction point of the FCB timeline is Emmett avoiding seeing Frankenstein. He avoids it at basically the exact same time Doc and Marty go back to the future. I don't know why people find it so inconceivable that Doc wont live as long without his rejuvenation.

[Tornreaper]

Originally Posted by Jennifer

Doc said "if I live to be 100, which I almost have" in It's About Time.

He also said Jules and Verne are going to college, which would mean that 19 years had passed since their conception. That would make Doc 90. Add in the amount of time it took Doc and Clara to be married, and the time it took to conceive a child, and the time definitely lines up with Doc's statement that he's almost 100.


The DeLorean had the ability to time travel before the crash because the time ripple didn't catch up to it yet since Doc didn't fade from existence until after they traveled through time.

As for the flying parts, they still exist in the timeline in 2015 (and as I mentioned before the future already exists as evidenced by Marty and Jennifer living in the future despite the fact that they hadn't lived it yet), since Doc Brown wasn't the one who invented them. Since they still exist, the time ripple took longer to catch up to it, as it had with Marty and the DeLorean itself.

But that would cause a paradox. It doesn't matter how long it takes to catch up with it. You seem to forget when something fades, it fades from existent. Not from that point on. Once the parts for time travel didn't exist it would be impossible to return from 1931 let alone get there, regardless if he got there before it faded.

I can sort of consider the age thing now. But it's just plain speculation. But I still can't see why Marty didn't fade. If time travel never existed then it would be one paradox after another which once again, makes it impossible for Marty to return from 1931. Same goes for every other time travel.

[sn939]

Originally Posted by Michael J Fox is Canadian

good point. Doc does state in the first episode he visited Marty and Jennifer in 2011 so the future does exist (as we also see at the end of the game)

the critical junction point of the FCB timeline is Emmett avoiding seeing Frankenstein. He avoids it at basically the exact same time Doc and Marty go back to the future. I don't know why people find it so inconceivable that Doc wont live as long without his rejuvenation.

The question about whether or not the future 'exists', and in what form does it exist, in the BTTF-verse, is an interesting debate in itself, and surprisingly not one which I've seen much discussion about in the fandom yet. The way I see it, the future does EXIST in the sense that there undoubtedly WILL be a future, which logically follows on from the events of the present...but the future really can't exist in the same way the past does. That's what makes it different from the past...

Now, when you add time travel to the mix, things get REALLY complicated, because then it becomes a matter of perspective. Personally, I feel that when a time traveler is in the past, the future he came from doesn't really 'exist' for him anymore than it does for anyone else...and let, HE is living proof that there IS a future.

BTTF honestly plays with this both ways-we're told in BTTF3 that the future isn't written...it's a blank slate which is constantly shaped by the actions of the present. On the other hand, the changing photographs and newspapers seem to give the impression of the future existing in some concrete sense...but being in a constant state of flux depending on the actions of time travelers in the past.

I think Jennifer being left behind in 1985 while Marty and Doc are gallivanting about in the past is an interesting study in perspectives-on the one hand, while they're in 1885, Doc says that the future isn't written and can be 'whatever one wants it to be'. Hell, the changing picture of the tombstone clearly indicates that the events of September 7th 1885 are not yet set in stone...let alone the far future. And yet, Marty and Doc talk about Jennifer, who was left behind on the porch in 1985, in the sense of her being someone they've left behind in a clearly definable place which they can easily return to. They also speak of Marty burning the Almanac in 1955, almost as if '1955' was a country Marty had recently visited, before moving to 1885! The truth is that going by the 'future isn't written' philosophy in the strictest sense...NOTHING is set in stone yet! If the outcome of Marty's confrontation with Bufford Tannen on September 7th 1885 hasn't been 'written'...then how can one even speak of someone being left behind on a porch in 1985, or someone burning a book from 2015 in the year 1955, in any absolute sense?

The characters have a tendency to refer to different time periods as places, which is what leads to this whole idea of the future 'existing' in some form. When Marty tells Jennifer at the end about how "Doc's never coming back", he speaks in terms of Doc being trapped in some place, with the time barrier merely being like a wire fence preventing him from getting back home. He simply doesn't think in terms of the fact that Doc would logically have been dead for DECADES already...so any question of him being 'trapped' somewhere or not 'coming back' is a moot point already. But I guess time travel being as troubling to logic as it is, requires this kind of rationalization as the only sane way to deal with it!

[Michael J Fox is Canadian]

Originally Posted by sn939

The question about whether or not the future 'exists', and in what form does it exist, in the BTTF-verse, is an interesting debate in itself, and surprisingly not one which I've seen much discussion about in the fandom yet. The way I see it, the future does EXIST in the sense that there undoubtedly WILL be a future, which logically follows on from the events of the present...but the future really can't exist in the same way the past does. That's what makes it different from the past...

Now, when you add time travel to the mix, things get REALLY complicated, because then it becomes a matter of perspective. Personally, I feel that when a time traveler is in the past, the future he came from doesn't really 'exist' for him anymore than it does for anyone else...and let, HE is living proof that there IS a future.

BTTF honestly plays with this both ways-we're told in BTTF3 that the future isn't written...it's a blank slate which is constantly shaped by the actions of the present. On the other hand, the changing photographs and newspapers seem to give the impression of the future existing in some concrete sense...but being in a constant state of flux depending on the actions of time travelers in the past.

I think Jennifer being left behind in 1985 while Marty and Doc are gallivanting about in the past is an interesting study in perspectives-on the one hand, while they're in 1885, Doc says that the future isn't written and can be 'whatever one wants it to be'. Hell, the changing picture of the tombstone clearly indicates that the events of September 7th 1885 are not yet set in stone...let alone the far future. And yet, Marty and Doc talk about Jennifer, who was left behind on the porch in 1985, in the sense of her being someone they've left behind in a clearly definable place which they can easily return to. They also speak of Marty burning the Almanac in 1955, almost as if '1955' was a country Marty had recently visited, before moving to 1885! The truth is that going by the 'future isn't written' philosophy in the strictest sense...NOTHING is set in stone yet! If the outcome of Marty's confrontation with Bufford Tannen on September 7th 1885 hasn't been 'written'...then how can one even speak of someone being left behind on a porch in 1985, or someone burning a book from 2015 in the year 1955, in any absolute sense?

The characters have a tendency to refer to different time periods as places, which is what leads to this whole idea of the future 'existing' in some form. When Marty tells Jennifer at the end about how "Doc's never coming back", he speaks in terms of Doc being trapped in some place, with the time barrier merely being like a wire fence preventing him from getting back home. He simply doesn't think in terms of the fact that Doc would logically have been dead for DECADES already...so any question of him being 'trapped' somewhere or not 'coming back' is a moot point already. But I guess time travel being as troubling to logic as it is, requires this kind of rationalization as the only sane way to deal with it!

The future (in BTTF) is similar to the past in the sense that it can not be changed without time travel; look at 2015; doc clearly maps out what will happen on that day and everything happens on schedule. It's not just a possible future, it is part of the timeline as the same events occur until they are changed by time trave; the newspaper of the next day still exists as do the almanac and biffs cane. also the fax of marty being fired; this functions similar to photos and newspapers that we see change; they change when the junction point causing them changes; All Marty's life (up to 2015) he has the flaw of not being able to back down when being called chicken. The events of the old west make him start to believe he shouldn't care what others think; any combination of Seamus brother Martin getting killed by being like him, the fact that Doc wouldn't have been stuck in the old west if Marty backed away from Biff, and that using logic over emotion (cheating in the duel with Buford) prevails leads him to that conclusion. The car accident was a critical point in Marty's life which led to the future we see in 2015. But in that timeline Marty did not have the events of 1885. Once Marty avoided it (again showing him that backing down clearly was the better choice), the fax erases.

Now there's many reasons the fax could erase. One being that if in that situation again in 2015, Marty wont reply to Needles calling him chicken but also that he does not give up on his music (as the car accident does so).


It is difficult to get a good gage on what you're saying because the only time travel during the films or games that we do see on screen which doesn't end up changing the timeline is Einstein going one minute into the future. But the 2015 experience is a good indicator on how the timeline plays out.



So in episodes 2/3 the delorean still exists in the FCB timeline for the same reason the almanac and cane from the future still exist in Hell valley; they weren't erased from existance.

[sn939]

Originally Posted by Michael J Fox is Canadian

The future (in BTTF) is similar to the past in the sense that it can not be changed without time travel; look at 2015; doc clearly maps out what will happen on that day and everything happens on schedule. It's not just a possible future, it is part of the timeline as the same events occur until they are changed by time trave; the newspaper of the next day still exists as do the almanac and biffs cane. also the fax of marty being fired; this functions similar to photos and newspapers that we see change; they change when the junction point causing them changes; All Marty's life (up to 2015) he has the flaw of not being able to back down when being called chicken. The events of the old west make him start to believe he shouldn't care what others think; any combination of Seamus brother Martin getting killed by being like him, the fact that Doc wouldn't have been stuck in the old west if Marty backed away from Biff, and that using logic over emotion (cheating in the duel with Buford) prevails leads him to that conclusion. The car accident was a critical point in Marty's life which led to the future we see in 2015. But in that timeline Marty did not have the events of 1885. Once Marty avoided it (again showing him that backing down clearly was the better choice), the fax erases.

Now there's many reasons the fax could erase. One being that if in that situation again in 2015, Marty wont reply to Needles calling him chicken but also that he does not give up on his music (as the car accident does so).


It is difficult to get a good gage on what you're saying because the only time travel during the films or games that we do see on screen which doesn't end up changing the timeline is Einstein going one minute into the future. But the 2015 experience is a good indicator on how the timeline plays out.



So in episodes 2/3 the delorean still exists in the FCB timeline for the same reason the almanac and cane from the future still exist in Hell valley; they weren't erased from existance.

Its true the future is shown to be just like the past in BTTF2...with events unfolding the same way until they are changed by the time travelers intervention. Okay...maybe that reasoning is a bit flawed. But at least in the case of the past, it was made amply clear in BTTF1 that the past wasn't just another room where you went, made changes to, and returned to the present like nothing happened. The causal link between past and present is clearly illustrated in BTTF1, with virtually EVERY action caused by Marty's presence in 1955 has some repercussions in 1985...from the smallest ones (running over the pine tree causing the mall name to change) to the biggest ones (George's confidence which translates into the McFly family's success).

But this causal link becomes a lot less clear with 2015 though. Because, every second Doc and Marty spend in 2015, they change not only the future, but also the PAST. Because both Doc and Marty are from 1985...every action they take, which wasn't taken in the previous timeline, affects 1985 as well, and consequently, 2015 should logically be changing, even imperceptibly if nothing else, every second as well. Everything 'our' Marty sees in 2015 is something he hasn't seen 'before' (in the previous timeline), and so he his very presence in 2015, by changing HIS timeline and therefore the timeline of 1985, should be changing 2015 as well! But instead, 2015 seems to be like this parallel universe or possible future, which Marty and Doc can observe and interact with to change stuff directly, but which has seemingly no causal connection to them.

The original 'Number Two' script, despite its flaws, actually did attempt to illustrate this causal connection between 1985 and 2015...when 1985 Jennifer pricks her finger on a thorn, we see 2015 Jennifer experience some residual pain from that. Now personally, I'm glad this 'pain transference' thing didn't make it to the finished film, but at least it illustrated the fact that the future Jennifer was causally dependent on the present Jennifer, and her past was changing in some sense with every action of Jennifer's in the future.

You do make a good point about the newspapers and the Almanac. In fact, that's one of the peculiar points about causality in BTTF. The information contained in objects from the future change based on the time traveler's actions in the past (relative to the origin point of those objects), but the objects themselves are never erased, even if the causal chain which leads to their presence in the time traveler's hands, is erased. So, the 'GEORGE MCFLY MURDERED' newspaper changes into the 'GEORGE MCFLY HONOURED' newspaper when the Almanac is burnt, which makes perfect sense given that the future has changed...but the newspaper itself still exists in Marty's hands in 1955, despite the fact that the chain of events which LED to the newspaper's presence in his hands has been erased. Which makes me wonder...could the same apply to the Delorean? Can the Delorean still exist, even if the chain of events which led to its creation has been erased?

[Jennifer]

Originally Posted by Tornreaper

But that would cause a paradox. It doesn't matter how long it takes to catch up with it. You seem to forget when something fades, it fades from existent. Not from that point on. Once the parts for time travel didn't exist it would be impossible to return from 1931 let alone get there, regardless if he got there before it faded.

In the Back to the Future universe, objects exist until they completely fade out, or else Biff wouldn't have been able to time travel back to 2015 since he faded from existence due to having died in the 1990's in the new timeline.

[Michael J Fox is Canadian]

Originally Posted by sn939

Its true the future is shown to be just like the past in BTTF2...with events unfolding the same way until they are changed by the time travelers intervention. Okay...maybe that reasoning is a bit flawed. But at least in the case of the past, it was made amply clear in BTTF1 that the past wasn't just another room where you went, made changes to, and returned to the present like nothing happened. The causal link between past and present is clearly illustrated in BTTF1, with virtually EVERY action caused by Marty's presence in 1955 has some repercussions in 1985...from the smallest ones (running over the pine tree causing the mall name to change) to the biggest ones (George's confidence which translates into the McFly family's success).

But this causal link becomes a lot less clear with 2015 though. Because, every second Doc and Marty spend in 2015, they change not only the future, but also the PAST. Because both Doc and Marty are from 1985...every action they take, which wasn't taken in the previous timeline, affects 1985 as well, and consequently, 2015 should logically be changing, even imperceptibly if nothing else, every second as well. Everything 'our' Marty sees in 2015 is something he hasn't seen 'before' (in the previous timeline), and so he his very presence in 2015, by changing HIS timeline and therefore the timeline of 1985, should be changing 2015 as well! But instead, 2015 seems to be like this parallel universe or possible future, which Marty and Doc can observe and interact with to change stuff directly, but which has seemingly no causal connection to them.

The original 'Number Two' script, despite its flaws, actually did attempt to illustrate this causal connection between 1985 and 2015...when 1985 Jennifer pricks her finger on a thorn, we see 2015 Jennifer experience some residual pain from that. Now personally, I'm glad this 'pain transference' thing didn't make it to the finished film, but at least it illustrated the fact that the future Jennifer was causally dependent on the present Jennifer, and her past was changing in some sense with every action of Jennifer's in the future.

You do make a good point about the newspapers and the Almanac. In fact, that's one of the peculiar points about causality in BTTF. The information contained in objects from the future change based on the time traveler's actions in the past (relative to the origin point of those objects), but the objects themselves are never erased, even if the causal chain which leads to their presence in the time traveler's hands, is erased. So, the 'GEORGE MCFLY MURDERED' newspaper changes into the 'GEORGE MCFLY HONOURED' newspaper when the Almanac is burnt, which makes perfect sense given that the future has changed...but the newspaper itself still exists in Marty's hands in 1955, despite the fact that the chain of events which LED to the newspaper's presence in his hands has been erased. Which makes me wonder...could the same apply to the Delorean? Can the Delorean still exist, even if the chain of events which led to its creation has been erased?

Well the chain of events leading to the deloreans creation have no relevance to Doc Brown or time travel, it was DMC and John Delorean. Presumably the parts that eventually become the time circuits still exist in some respects. I can't remember the date George McFly is murdered/honoured, i think around March 15th 1973 but either way there still would be a newspaper printed that day (although admittedly Marty would have no reason to grab it and bring it to 1955)

[sn939]

Originally Posted by Michael J Fox is Canadian

Well the chain of events leading to the deloreans creation have no relevance to Doc Brown or time travel, it was DMC and John Delorean. Presumably the parts that eventually become the time circuits still exist in some respects. I can't remember the date George McFly is murdered/honoured, i think around March 15th 1973 but either way there still would be a newspaper printed that day (although admittedly Marty would have no reason to grab it and bring it to 1955)

Which begs the question...in all probability, there is ANOTHER Delorean out there somewhere in FCB 1986 which is IDENTICAL to the time travelling Delorean (but stayed as a 'normal' car)? So do both the FCB Delorean and the 'Original' Delorean indefinitely co-exist? Or eventually...will one fade from existence?

Also, there's one other thing with regards to the Delorean we've ignored...its a 'temporal duplicate' of the original...so the question is, what exactly counts as THIS Delorean's 'creation'? Being manufactured by DMC in the 1980's and modified into a time machine in 1985...or being struck by lightning on November 12th 1955? If the latter...then the Delorean should logically have been erased, since that event never happened in this timeline...

[Jennifer]

Originally Posted by sn939

Which begs the question...in all probability, there is ANOTHER Delorean out there somewhere in FCB 1986 which is IDENTICAL to the time travelling Delorean (but stayed as a 'normal' car)? So do both the FCB Delorean and the 'Original' Delorean indefinitely co-exist? Or eventually...will one fade from existence?

If the First Citizen Brown timeline wasn't rewritten, one of the DeLoreans would fade from existence. We saw Edna's DeLorean fade from existence in OUTATIME.

Originally Posted by sn939

Also, there's one other thing with regards to the Delorean we've ignored...its a 'temporal duplicate' of the original...so the question is, what exactly counts as THIS Delorean's 'creation'? Being manufactured by DMC in the 1980's and modified into a time machine in 1985...or being struck by lightning on November 12th 1955? If the latter...then the Delorean should logically have been erased, since that event never happened in this timeline...

Good question. I'd say it's creation was in the 1980's based on what I've read about temporal duplication in other literature (that being that the temporal duplication would make it the same car at two different points in time).

[sn939]

Originally Posted by Jennifer

If the First Citizen Brown timeline wasn't rewritten, one of the DeLoreans would fade from existence. We saw Edna's DeLorean fade from existence in OUTATIME.


Good question. I'd say it's creation was in the 1980's based on what I've read about temporal duplication in other literature (that being that the temporal duplication would make it the same car at two different points in time).

'Temporal duplication' in the conventional sense simply refers to a situation where two of the same person or object, originating from different points of time, co-exist (the two Marty's in BTTF2 and Ep 2 of the Game, young Emmett and Doc in 1931 etc.)

However, in this case, when they're talking about 'temporal duplication', they mean the Delorean was LITERALLY duplicated, such that the two cars had an existence independent of each other.

Case in point, if you consider all the Deloreans in Hill Valley on November 12th 1955...each one is dependent on its 'predecessor' for its existence. One couldn't tamper with, say, the Delorean Old Biff brought with him from 2015 without affecting the Delorean Marty and Doc brought from 1985-A, or the one buried in the Delgado Mine.

But the Delorean in the Game had an independent existence of the Delorean in BTTF3. One went to 1885, stayed in a mine for 70 years, went back to 1885 AGAIN, returned to 1985 and was destroyed. The other went to 2025, later (presumably) made a few time jumps, before going to 1931, and then returning to 1986 at the start of the game.