When can we expect to see SOMETHING about Telltale's KQ?

[MusicallyInspired]

Jane Jensen storytelling doesn't bother me. But I think Telltale has enough sense not to go tying stuff together. They didn't do that with Tales or any of the other franchises. That's not their problem.

Also, stop trolling.

[MusicallyInspired]

Originally Posted by blueskirt

So yeah, from now on, more analysis of Tales Of Monkey Island, and less stupid debates about King's Quest VI, Jane Jensen, dead ends, Graham's jim jams color or which King's Quest has the stupidest puzzle. Time to enlighten Telltale about what made adventure games great, before they're done with The Walking Dead and start working on King's Quest. If we're lucky they'll work on Fable next and we'll have more time to steer their design in the right direction.

I had a post but I'm not sure what happened to it. Here it is again.

I'm sorry, but none of those games (TMI or SMI) match King's Quest's style at all. I hope it's nothing like Tales. Basically, I'm hoping that King's Quest will be different from everything they've done so far.

What TMI did that wouldn't match King's Quest:

• An extreme overuse of conversation puzzles
• Lack of dying
• Extreme overdose of Telltale-style humourous dialogue (which most of the time isn't really that funny). King's Quest is not a comedy
• Exaggerated caricature style character design (though I suspect we'll get this regardless)
• Not enough locales
• Easy-peasy puzzles
• Annoying hint system (we're getting this either way)
• A world that's completely safe and not dangerous (to your life or game progress) at all. For instance, the dwarf in KQ2. He could steal your equipment and slow you down, you could always get your stuff back again, however, by raiding his chest in his house.
• Too much talking (exposition, story, character/plot development), not enough puzzle solving
• Not enough wide shots to explore everything in a given game "room"/Too much "cinematic camera angles"
• Too short.

Also, I think we can safely assume that King's Quest will be coming last and we'll be seeing Fables after Walking Dead.

[thom-22]

Originally Posted by blueskirt

Time to enlighten Telltale about what made adventure games great, before they're done with The Walking Dead and start working on King's Quest. If we're lucky they'll work on Fable next and we'll have more time to steer their design in the right direction.

To be fair, we have had several threads along those lines. But I'm up for talking about it again and will look up my previous posts and think some more before writing. I do agree with MI, though, that Tales might not be the best jumping off point.

[Anakin Skywalker]

Originally Posted by MusicallyInspired

Jane Jensen storytelling doesn't bother me. But I think Telltale has enough sense not to go tying stuff together. They didn't do that with Tales or any of the other franchises. That's not their problem.

Also, stop trolling.

We have nothing else to talk about besides:
1) The possibility that TT's KQ will either be great, good, mediocre or horrible.
2) That TT's games are very different from Sierra's games, and many feel that TT's style is not compatible with KQ.

We have not seen a screenshot, or a piece of concept art, or a trailer, or ANYTHING for this game. As of now, it's an utterly unknown quantity. A phantom game for all intents and purposes. As such, I just enjoy talking about the KQ games that DO exist. There's only so many ways one can say: "Don't make the KQ game like BTTF or Jurassic Park". Granted, the same could well be said for me talking about KQ6...But when you have literally nothing new or of substance to talk about, the conversation can tend to go around in circles.

[MusicallyInspired]

It tends to go around in circles if you don't regulate yourself. And you don't enjoy talking about KQ games. You enjoy berating the ones you hate. Why don't you ACTUALLY talk about the ones you like?

[Chyron8472]

Originally Posted by blueskirt

I suspect a deeper gameplay might be possible if we talk less about Jurassic Park and Walking Dead and more about Tales Of Monkey Island, what it did right and wrong, what we'd like to see more of and what was missing from that game. Otherwise, I fear Telltale will settle for Tales gameplay rather than aim for the better gameplay of Secret of Monkey Island.

So yeah, from now on, more analysis of Tales Of Monkey Island, and less stupid debates about King's Quest VI, Jane Jensen, dead ends, Graham's jim jams color or which King's Quest has the stupidest puzzle. Time to enlighten Telltale about what made adventure games great, before they're done with The Walking Dead and start working on King's Quest. If we're lucky they'll work on Fable next and we'll have more time to steer their design in the right direction.

This sounds like a wonderful idea. I like it.

Originally Posted by Anakin Skywalker

You'll end up getting a game with BTTF's game play and Jane Jensen inspired storytelling. Expect Mordack to be Graham's half brother or something and characters like Morgelien or whatever.

Would you shut up about this? KQ6 did not "open the door" for the plot devices the fan-games made. The Society of the Black Cloak was only given one mention in that game, and it was only on an inventory item that showed proof that Cassima was in danger. That's it. If you hate the fan games, then you do. Now, stop bitching about KQ6, and start talking about something productive toward making TTG's game better (as blueskirt suggested.)

[Silverwolfpet]

Originally Posted by MusicallyInspired

Why don't you ACTUALLY talk about the ones you like?

Best advice I heard all day.

Keeping my eye on this thread. Be nice, Anakin.

...or I'll send Obi-Wan to get you

[blueskirt]

To be fair, we have had several threads along those lines. But I'm up for talking about it again and will look up my previous posts and think some more before writing. I do agree with MI, though, that Tales might not be the best jumping off point.

I know but since Jurassic Park, these kind of convos somewhat turned into "Don't make King's Quest an interactive movie". And realistically, I think Tales is most likely where Telltale will start when they'll design the gameplay of King's Quest.

[BagginsKQ]

"Morgeilen"?

You mean characters from the fan games that had nothing to do with Jane Jensen?

Society of the Black Cloak was only given one mention in that game, and it was only on an inventory item that showed proof that Cassima was in danger. That's it.

Actually three mentions... An inventory item found in Alhazred's bedroom, overhearing a letter being written Alhazred in his study, and a cryptic mention by the Oracle...

[Anakin Skywalker]

KQ5 is my favorite KQ game and if TT's KQ has the same adventurous, journey-type feel, with that charm and magic that seems to appeal to all ages, I'll love it. I don't mind dead ends or even "Moon Logic" puzzles; It actually makes the game all the more challenging, and thus, for me, stimulating and fun.

I want a game that has a simplistic, but not utterly vague storyline (IE, KQ5's plot is to the point and moves with a good flow, whereas KQ1 pretty much has nothing in the way of a story besides the overarching plot of finding the Treasures). I want colorful characters and I want cheesy-ness and cheesy puns (King Anthony the Great, Queen Icebella).

I want Graham to be the protagonist.

I would love a return to more of a fairy tale inspired atmosphere, with lots of very very different mythological and fairy tale characters and creatures thrown in the mix together. I want a sense of urgency that wasn't present in any game but KQ4. I want creatures to pop out of nowhere trying to get you and you have to escape off screen. I want some of the Occult/Lovecraft influence present in KQ5 in Mordack's Castle.

I want a large, very open world, that by the end of the game you feel like you've been on a long journey. But I want areas which are titillating to the eyes, but areas which you can never reach (IE the tiny islands in KQ5, or the village by the Roc's nest in KQ5--Areas which look interesting which have nothing to do with the game).

I want the ability to die, and I want funny deaths. I don't want the gameplay to feel locked in or repetitive as it does in Back to the Future. I don't want to have to keep coming back to the same areas over and over. Once one area or land has no further use, it should be left behind.

I don't want any hint system or any hand holding. I want to be stumped--I don't want the game to guide me to the right conclusion, I want to reach it myself.

I'd love a game that would take all the best parts of KQ1SCI, KQ5 and KQ7 and put them together, with something of a more Arthurian plot ala KQ8--but done with the tone and formant of KQ5-7. Basically, what KQ8 could've been if it had remained faithful to the series' "rules".

[Anakin Skywalker]

Originally Posted by blueskirt

I know but since Jurassic Park, these kind of convos somewhat turned into "Don't make King's Quest an interactive movie". And realistically, I think Tales is most likely where Telltale will start when they'll design the gameplay of King's Quest.

A question: Can an "interactive movie" be done where it is still challenging? Where it is an equal balance of "Movie" and "Game"? I always thought the idea of a '90s Sierra style Interactive Movie KQ (but with animation, not live actors at all) could be interesting, if it was challenging.

[Chyron8472]

Originally Posted by MusicallyInspired

I'm sorry, but none of those games (TMI or SMI) match King's Quest's style at all. I hope it's nothing like Tales. Basically, I'm hoping that King's Quest will be different from everything they've done so far.

What TMI did that wouldn't match King's Quest:

• An extreme overuse of conversation puzzles
• Lack of dying
• Extreme overdose of Telltale-style humourous dialogue (which most of the time isn't really that funny). King's Quest is not a comedy
• Exaggerated caricature style character design (though I suspect we'll get this regardless)
• Not enough locales
• Easy-peasy puzzles
• Annoying hint system (we're getting this either way)
• A world that's completely safe and not dangerous (to your life or game progress) at all. For instance, the dwarf in KQ2. He could steal your equipment and slow you down, you could always get your stuff back again, however, by raiding his chest in his house.
• Too much talking (exposition, story, character/plot development), not enough puzzle solving
• Not enough wide shots to explore everything in a given game "room"/Too much "cinematic camera angles"
• Too short.

Good list.

I've been thinking, however, about it being "too short." Now, I know that time played during a single playthrough is significantly shorter when one already knows the solutions to puzzles, and I haven't exactly timed myself lately, but I'm not sure the time it takes to beat KQ4, 5 or 6 is that much longer (or shorter) than the time it takes to beat Tales.

I'm not arguing your other points. I do think that Tales didn't have enough to interact with; too much dialogue and not enough puzzles; and caricature character models.

One thing about KQ games that I'm not sure how TTG can replicate is the variation between sizes of different areas. What I mean is, the starting area of KQ5 and 3 are the largest explorable areas of those games, and I'm not sure how that could be replicated in an episodic game series.

Originally Posted by Anakin Skywalker

I want cheesy-ness and cheesy puns (King Anthony the Great, Queen Icebella).

I know there are cheesy moments in KQ games, but I really detested the ant and bee characters in that game, and ESPECIALLY the dumb ant song while they search for the needle.

I don't want to have to keep coming back to the same areas over and over. Once one area or land has no further use, it should be left behind.

I'm not sure about the implementation of this. in KQ3 you spend most of the game in Llewdor; in KQ4 you spend the whole game on Tamir, with the time of day changing; in KQ5, the largest explorable area is the open area of Serenia before passing the snake.

[thom-22]

Originally Posted by blueskirt

I know but since Jurassic Park, these kind of convos somewhat turned into "Don't make King's Quest an interactive movie". And realistically, I think Tales is most likely where Telltale will start when they'll design the gameplay of King's Quest.

They've turned into that because not everybody agrees with your delineation of what's realistic. I have a different opinion on that. I can't just accept someone imposing an arbitrary assumption and suggesting that conversation has to be confined to what follows from it when I believe there are important issues arising from debate on the assumption itself. It's hard to avoid these kinds of problems in forums when people think what's self-obvious to them should be self-obvious to everyone else. No matter how self-obvious it is.

---

Back to the current sub-topic...

First and foremost, I want multiple modes of interaction -- look, touch, talk, etc. I don't really care how it's implemented, a row of icons at the top, cursor-cycling, a popup menu, whatever.

I agree with most everything Anakin said. Except I would not say I want the plot to be "simplistic". I would rather say simple, as in non-convoluted, but I have no problem with the idea that a KQ plot could be as detailed as KQ6's. Not only should the gameplay genre be adventure but so should the fictional genre -- as others have said, a journey or quest, with no psychological drama.

I agree with Chyron that cheesiness taken too far is not a good thing.

Originally Posted by MusicallyInspired

Not enough wide shots to explore everything in a given game "room"/Too much "cinematic camera angles"

This is an interesting issue I'd like to talk about more, except I'm not exactly sure what I want to say . If I could untangle my own thinking on it and write something coherent, maybe I'll do it as a new thread.

[BagginsKQ]

tone and formant of KQ5-7

I wouldn't even consider KQ7 as the same tone and format of KQ4-6 (and KQ1 remake)... KQ4 is loosely same tone and format as the later 2 games... When the series started to turn more serious, more dramatic, and had less humor (though the humor in the narrative dialogue is still there, but to a lesser degree than previous games)...

KQ7 was more over the top, and silly...

KQ8 moved back more towards the more serious/dramatic style of KQ4-6 (and KQ1 remake)... But went out of its way to add things the series was not previously known for...

[Goldrock]

tbh the dark and grittyness of a story is all based on personal perspective some people will see it as a dark and gritty experience while others wont.

[MusicallyInspired]

Originally Posted by BagginsKQ

"Morgeilen"?

You mean characters from the novels that had nothing to do with Jane Jensen?

Wow. Can't believe you got that wrong. Morgeilen isn't from the novels. He's The Father in AGDI's games.

[Lambonius]

Originally Posted by MusicallyInspired

Wow. Can't believe you got that wrong. Morgeilen isn't from the novels. He's The Father in AGDI's games.

Anxiously awaiting Baggins' wall-of-text, citation filled post explaining why it is YOU who, in fact, are wrong, and he was right all along.

[BagginsKQ]

Musically, I was thinking of Morowyn, the Wizard from The Floating Castle... Was obviously tired and misread his post, and typed that, LOL...

Too many wizards starting with the "Mor" title ...

However, my point still stands... I don't consider the The Father (who in this case originates out of a Fan Game) to have anything to do with Jane Jensen... Anymore than I would blame her for any characters from the novels (although KQ6 did inspire the The Floating Castle artwork)!

[techie775]

Originally Posted by BagginsKQ

KQ8 moved back more towards the more serious/dramatic style of KQ4-6 (and KQ1 remake)... But went out of its way to add things the series was not previously known for...

KQ3 wasn't serious or dramatic? The whole game is basically Gwydion escaping from Mannannan and trying to get home. Sure we got a few light hearted moments, but most of the game is pretty determined.

[BagginsKQ]

Techie, the idea was serious, but pay attention to the narration. There are alot of break the fourth wall style humor in it. Very silly stuff... It was also the last of the games to play the narration as 'you as the character'. 2nd Person narration..., and later games pushed more towards more of a 3rd Person style of narration.

Look at some of the stuff said during the few conversations... Incuding the whole 'tattoo' remark, or the 'twincest' comments (milky white skin, sweeet cherry lips, bountiful assets, you'd kiss/date her if she wasn't your sister")!

For all intents and purposes the game has a relatively bright and cheery artstyle, and atmosphere throughout...