Theology

[coolsome]

Originally Posted by DAISHI

I have indeed risen, following a totally excessive drinking night.

You should have been past out for three days.

[DAISHI]

Originally Posted by coolsome

You should have been past out for three days.

That risk was actually potent.

[StrongBrush1]

I don't subscribe to any one particular religion, I just follow a lot of the values and ideas of different religions, such as heaven, hell, karma, kindness, generosity, honesty, etc.

I don't believe in the organization of religion. There are just too many differing interpreted ideologies for any particular person to follow a certain religion 100% without any sort of doubt. Let's face it, the only way you'd be completely satisfied in following a religion is starting your own. I have neither the time or patience to do that, so I choose to remain unaffiliated.

[DAISHI]

Originally Posted by StrongBrush1

I don't subscribe to any one particular religion, I just follow a lot of the values and ideas of different religions, such as heaven, hell, karma, kindness, generosity, honesty, etc.

I don't believe in the organization of religion. There are just too many differing interpreted ideologies for any particular person to follow a certain religion 100% without any sort of doubt. Let's face it, the only way you'd be completely satisfied in following a religion is starting your own. I have neither the time or patience to do that, so I choose to remain unaffiliated.

Following all or none are morally equivalent if they're all false.

[Jennifer]

I'm a firm believer of Universal Life Church's philosophy that all religious beliefs are equal and that the only thing that matters is that you do that which is right.

As a bonus, every member of the church is a minister, so I have the ability to perform marriage ceremonies if I so desire.

[coolsome]

I belong to the religious order of The Silence.

[DAISHI]

Originally Posted by Jennifer

I'm a firm believer of Universal Life Church's philosophy that all religious beliefs are equal and that the only thing that matters is that you do that which is right.

As a bonus, every member of the church is a minister, so I have the ability to perform marriage ceremonies if I so desire.

What is 'right' ?

[RetroVortex]

I've always believed that religion isn't important.

Its HOW you live your life that matters. Actions speak louder than words.

If there was a God, and therefore an afterlife of some sort, then if he decided that an individual wasn't worthy of their "reward" due to them not following a specific template despite being a good person, then he is a dick, and doesn't deserve to be in that position of power.

[DAISHI]

Originally Posted by RetroVortex

I've always believed that religion isn't important.

Its HOW you live your life that matters. Actions speak louder than words.

If there was a God, and therefore an afterlife of some sort, then if he decided that an individual wasn't worthy of their "reward" due to them not following a specific template despite being a good person, then he is a dick, and doesn't deserve to be in that position of power.

What is a good person?

[Jennifer]

Originally Posted by DAISHI

What is 'right' ?

The opposite of left.

Of course what is right has different meanings for different cultures, so of course you are expected to follow the laws and cultures of the area you live in or are visiting. The big thing I like about the ULC's message is that people should accept and respect everyone's differences since we're all children of the same universe.

I might add though, it also means accepting changes in culture as well (we're not all stuck in a caste system any more, for example), so while we should accept people's differences, we also have to accept that time inevitably changes things.

[Alcoremortis]

Originally Posted by DAISHI

What is a good person?

I think the whole "do unto others" and "love thy neighbor as thyself" bits are pretty good starting points. Too many religions add on caveats to these like: unless they're gay, another religion/atheist, or a different race. I think that's silly.

The real problems come when you get to the tough decisions of deciding the right between two ambiguous things. Or things that some people find ambiguous and others find remarkably straightforward.

[coolsome]

Is Solid Snake a good person?

[Chyron8472]

Originally Posted by StrongBrush1

I don't subscribe to any one particular religion, I just follow a lot of the values and ideas of different religions, such as heaven, hell, karma, kindness, generosity, honesty, etc.

I don't believe in the organization of religion.

Christianity isn't about religion. It's about a relationship with God.

Matthew 22:36-40
“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

--

Originally Posted by Jennifer

I'm a firm believer of Universal Life Church's philosophy that all religious beliefs are equal and that the only thing that matters is that you do that which is right.

There are two problems with this:

John 14:5-14
Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

and:

Ephesians 2
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

It's not just that His grace is can not be earned by good works; It is also that He will meet us where we are at in life, no matter where that is and no matter what we have done, so long as we ask Him to forgive us for our mistakes and to be a part of our lives. In our obedience we are called to do good works, but the works themselves are to bring glory to God and help to each other, not salvation for ourselves.

[KuroShiro]

Or, you could just, you know, relax and enjoy life come what may.

I'm quite happy in my life without subscribing to any -isms or what have you, including atheism. I need no instruction for being a good person, or justification for my existence. 's all good. Even if I'm just a meaningless, coincidental hunk of molecules, that in and of itself is pretty goddamn amazing.

[Blackthorne519]

Of course some Holy Book written by man is going to say "I am the only way to [The Lord]". Basically, "My Way or the highway." You know, because screw all those people that lived for thousands of years before.... Yahweh didn't feel like talking to them.

You can quote a book all you want, but it doesn't mean it's right.

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

Ephesians 6:5-9: "Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free. And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him."

Cherry picking the Bible is fun!


Bt

[Icedhope]

Guys...please...please don't start anything in here, and or tear anyone down.

[Jennifer]

Originally Posted by Chyron8472

There are two problems with this:

No one comes to the Father except through me.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

The Christian bible also states that God takes many forms.

Hebrews: 1.1: Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets.

Since we are all people living in the same universe, is it not possible that Jehovah, Allah, Krishna, and even science are the same God taking different forms?

[Hayden]

Originally Posted by Icedhope

Guys...please...please don't start anything in here, and or tear anyone down.

If they do, though, can we please not lock the thread at the first sign of it? I'm looking forward to reading the ensuing debate, even if it is heated. In other meaningless threads, sure, but this is one thread I don't want to see cut off.

Originally Posted by Blackthorne519

Ephesians 6:5-9: "Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free. And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him."

By the way, what is/are the inherent problem/s you see in this passage?

Originally Posted by Jennifer

The Christian bible also states that God takes many forms.

Hebrews: 1.1: Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets.

Since we are all people living in the same universe, is it not possible that Jehovah, Allah, Krishna, and even science are the same God taking different forms?

This is actually quite a logical standpoint, and one which I can't argue with to any great degree. But the benefit of simply following one religion, or one denomination, is that it gives you an objective definition/basis of right and wrong that is both specific and comprehensive. All other perceptions of right and wrong are subjective, and can be altered and influenced very easily, and which aren't set or grounded or undeniable (in other words, they aren't objective). And I think this is why Daishi was persisting with the "What is right?" and "What is a good person?" questions (correct me if I'm wrong here, though, Daishi).

Anyway, I just think that there are benefits in following one specific faith. And I personally choose Christianity because it promotes a terrific way of living anyway. It endorses a life of humility, service and kindness (so, if followed, it's an ideal way to achieve humanism), and it's based around relationship (as Chyron has said), rather than the superficialities that generally surround most religions (pointless traditions, rituals, building of monuments, etc.).

[Chyron8472]

Originally Posted by Blackthorne519

Of course some Holy Book written by man is going to say "I am the only way to [The Lord]". Basically, "My Way or the highway." You know, because screw all those people that lived for thousands of years before.... Yahweh didn't feel like talking to them.

You can quote a book all you want, but it doesn't mean it's right.

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

Such rules were developed as Israel was establishing itself--they were made so that Moses didn't have to make decisions about every dispute. These many, many (admittedly strange) rules were not handed down by God. In fact, Jesus chastized the Pharisees because they held too much to the letter of the law (and how they cared more for their own outward appearances than for God or for other people) rather than to pursue a relationship with God.

Mark 7:6-13
So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, “Why don’t your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with defiled hands?”

He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:

“‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’

You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.”

And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is Corban (that is, devoted to God)— then you no longer let them do anything for their father or mother. Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”

Originally Posted by Blackthorne519

Ephesians 6:5-9: "Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free. And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him."

I often can't understand KJV very easily. Also, I have heard that it is not as accurate in its translation as other, more recent translations. As such, I like NIV better:

Ephesians 6:5-9
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.

And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.

[DAISHI]

Originally Posted by Hayden

If they do, though, can we please not lock the thread at the first sign of it? I'm looking forward to reading the ensuing debate, even if it is heated. In other meaningless threads, sure, but this is one thread I don't want to see cut off.



By the way, what is/are the inherent problem/s you see in this passage?



This is actually quite a logical standpoint, and one which I can't argue with to any great degree. But the benefit of simply following one religion, or one denomination, is that it gives you an objective definition/basis of right and wrong that is both specific and comprehensive. All other perceptions of right and wrong are subjective, and can be altered and influenced very easily, and which aren't set or grounded or undeniable (in other words, they aren't objective). And I think this is why Daishi was persisting with the "What is right?" and "What is a good person?" questions (correct me if I'm wrong here, though, Daishi).

Anyway, I just think that there are benefits in following one specific faith. And I personally choose Christianity because it promotes a terrific way of living anyway. It endorses a life of humility, service and kindness (so, if followed, it's an ideal way to achieve humanism), and it's based around relationship (as Chyron has said), rather than the superficialities that generally surround most religions (pointless traditions, rituals, building of monuments, etc.).

You allude to my point, yes. I can only exist in one of two realities. One, that nothing is right or wrong, and that all things are subjective. Under this system, morality is utilitarian, used only to settle on what general framework allows a society to exist without cannibalizing itself. Under this system, because all things are subjective, there is no right. It's all alterable or subjective.

I'm not inherently opposed to such a system per se, but I've found that an objective morality is at least more appealing in that it establishes a framework in which there can be a definite right and wrong. Now, I can also be tolerant of other people's differences and live side by side with them under this objective system. I can think a person is existing wrongly without imposing my morality on them (thus I have no problem with the notion of legalized drug use, for instance, which I don't believe the government should regulate), and still coexist and maintain my personal beliefs.