Problem with Larry @ Chapter 1 (Spoilers regarding end)

[Nosphorus]

Hey guys, first post here and I hope to contribute more during the releases of the Walking Dead episodes.

Let me start by saying that this is only my second Telltale (Hector being the 1st) game that I've bought, however I've been a fan of point/click adventures since I had the capacity to play them and bought this game purely on the impression that the demo left me with.

The only gripe I have about this game is at the end when it demonstrates who you had sided with, Larry or Kenny.
Being a predominant Kenny supporter I was amazed to find out that I had apparently sided with the enemy, even though all of my choices were pro Kenny+Doug apart from one little line that should've had some neutrality. That choice is by trying to reason with Larry about what happens to Duck, even if you had followed up the conversation afterwards backing up Kenny it still shows that apparently I had sided with Larry.

Considering that 50%+ of the user base had also sided with him leads me to think that a lot of us ended up mistakenly supporting someone we didn't intend to.

What's the community's thoughts on this?

[Gman5852]

There were 3 options for that scene correct?

"We Kick His Ass"
"We Reason With Him"

What was the third one?

I would think it would have been "Kick his ass" for Kenny
"Reason" Neutral and the third one be
"Throw Duck out" for Larry.

Kinda wierd reasoning is pro Larry....

[Rasher]

I think it all really comes down to the last choice you make. If you told Larry the no one is touching the boy or you told Kenny to hit Larry, then you supported Kenny. The 'we reason with him' option is not key.

[Nosphorus]

There are four options:

"It's him or Duck" Which is pro Kenny, Lee talks about throwing Larry out to the walkers.
"Kick his arse" Obviously a pro Kenny choice
"Reason with him" The situation is offered by Lee as an alternative, Kenny says the only way you can reason with him is by chopping Larry up with an Axe "Nobody threatens my boy"
"..." I rarely use this option but I can see it being a negative since Kenny is asking for your backup.

[The_Ripper]

Originally Posted by Rasher

I think it all really comes down to the last choice you make. If you told Larry the no one is touching the boy or you told Kenny to hit Larry, then you supported Kenny. The 'we reason with him' option is not key.

Agree with this.

The last choice you make are two options for Kenny (punch him or state that NO ONE will touch Duck) and the other options for Larry (I can't remember which 'cause I discard them at once, lol).

In my game I chose the second option and the game says that I'm with Larry. WHAT???

Obviously it's a bug.

[Nosphorus]

Originally Posted by The_Ripper

Obviously it's a bug.

That was my assumption, on my first playthrough I tried to reason with Larry and the second conversation choice I told Kenny to hit Larry (Due to timer nearly running out).

At the end of the chapter it still said I had sided with Larry though.

[WabbitTwaks]

Here is something you may not be taking into account, and may not know about...

In the Which decisions are important thread, Jake from TTG stated

Originally Posted by Jake

While those five big choices get called out for you, the game remembers literally everything you say to everyone, and writers of future episodes can call back to any dialog choice or series of events you've made when crafting how their episode plays out.

So, even the smaller, seemingly insignificant dialogue choices could have major impact later.

I think there may be some confusion between the overall choice and the story notifications during the conversation. With the story notifications on, any time you make a neutral, or obvious negative Duck choice through that entire conversation, it relays to you that you did not back Kenny up. What you choose at the end dictates the overall choice of the conversation. With what Jake said about decisions, however, anything can come back and bite you in the ass.

Edit: However, rereading your post, Nosphorus, has made me think the end might not be a completely hard and fast choice. The decisions throughout the conversation may be weighted. The final choice may not have enough weight to counteract all neutral/negative choices in the rest of it.

[The_Ripper]

Originally Posted by WabbitTwaks

Here is something you may not be taking into account, and may not know about...

In the Which decisions are important thread, Jake from TTG stated

So, even the smaller, seemingly insignificant dialogue choices could have major impact later.

I think there may be some confusion between the overall choice and the story notifications during the conversation. With the story notifications on, any time you make a neutral, or obvious negative Duck choice through that entire conversation, it relays to you that you did not back Kenny up. What you choose at the end dictates the overall choice of the conversation. With what Jake said about decisions, however, anything can come back and bite you in the ass.

Edit: However, rereading your post, Nosphorus, has made me think the end might not be a completely hard and fast choice. The decisions throughout the conversation may be weighted. The final choice may not have enough weight to counteract all neutral/negative choices in the rest of it.

We're not talking about which decisions will be significant in the future. We are only discussing about the statistics at the end of episode 1. There is a bug.

In the game, if I threat Larry with punching him if he touches to Duck... is that being with Larry? I think NOT at all.

Telling to Kenny that he would reason with him instead of fighting it's not being agree with Larry either.

Punching him it's a radical way, but you're not with Larry either.

I think that the last part of the conversation it's determinant to know if Lee it's with Kenny or Larry, that's all.

[WabbitTwaks]

As my final edit states, the decisions may be weighted. Consider this...

During the conversation...
Neutral choice #1 = -2 points
Neutral choice #2 = -3 points
Final "Hit him Kenny" choice = +4 points
Final "No!" (where Lee tangles with Larry) = +6 points

By making all neutral choices until the very end, in one instance you would be -1 point to siding with Kenny (or +1 siding with Larry), but in the other you would be +1 to siding with Kenny.

[The_Ripper]

I don't think that the decisions are weighted. If so, there are poorly weighted.

There is also a bug in the stats when it says I was honest with Hershel. No way, he catches me lying to him even.

[Nosphorus]

The problem is that the only choices that impact Kenny is during the conversation when you mention reasoning with him and the tooltip says "You didn't side with Kenny" and a couple of minutes later when you can choose:

He's just a boy
Deal with it
We do what you say
...

The rest of the conversations don't directly have Kenny's input so I can't really see why they'd be weighted, and if they were weighted to that equivalent that'd be pretty illogical having them not balance each other out or atleast have similar numbers at the different spectrums (+3 NO!!! +6 Kenny hit him -3 I'm sorry Kenny -6 You're right).

Although don't you think it was weird that most of the playerbase (52-54%+) sided with Larry over Kenny? That doesn't seem intended and I doubt anyone would willingly side with Larry unless they wanted what I'd call an asshole playthrough.

[Neelo]

I think despite the statistics, it still counts as being against Larry if you did all those other things, because I chose Reason with him and then did everything else against Larry, and got "You sided with Larry" at the end, but in the "Next time on The Walking Dead" part it had an argument with Lily where she complained that Lee had gone out of his way to go against Larry, or something along those lines. So I think the statistics don't really matter all that much, and, in the end, the game counts us as being against Larry.

[The_Ripper]

Originally Posted by Neelo

I think despite the statistics, it still counts as being against Larry if you did all those other things, because I chose Reason with him and then did everything else against Larry, and got "You sided with Larry" at the end, but in the "Next time on The Walking Dead" part it had an argument with Lily where she complained that Lee had gone out of his way to go against Larry, or something along those lines. So I think the statistics don't really matter all that much, and, in the end, the game counts us as being against Larry.

Yes, you're right. The game counts that you sided with Kenny. I had that trailer too.

The bug it's in the stats so it would be easy to fix. In the stats said that I was honest with Hershell and that's false too.

[Lewisham]

Yeah, there's something wrong with this entire conversation, and certainly the stats. I was playing without the loyalty pings on, so I can't speak to that.

I chose Reason With Him, then something about leaving Duck alone. The next thing Larry says is something about how if the boy is bit, we should get rid of him. There's an option in there which is really poorly labelled, something like "Then we throw him out".

I read this as "Then we throw him out" as in "If he's bit, we throw him out." What this actually meant was "Oh well then, let's throw him out now" and Kenny (and me) is rightfully upset. The final choice I made was that if Larry was to touch the boy, he'd have to kill me first.

The game treated me as if I had sided with Kenny, but the stats said Larry. My guess is it's because I acted peacemaker, then accidentally sided with Larry, but ended up with siding with Kenny. Maybe any siding with Larry is what counts in the stats.

I was all ready to reload before the autosave after the mislabeled choice. I was going to be pretty upset if Duck got tossed out by accident.

[CapnJay]

Thing is if you don't take sides Larry realizes he made a mistake when Kaatja points out duck isn't bitten but Kenny gets pissed at lee. however you can make it up to kenny and give duck an energy bar. in episode 2 says they have to check out and see if someones body bitten because we all thought Duck was bitten. Causing Lee to look pained. but Lilly doesnt yell that you didnt side with her dad and kennys tone isn't spiteful it's "Look dude no double standards allowed here"and honestly he's right

[Nosphorus]

Can we get any confirmation on if this is a end episode stats issue or if it's because of the choices via dialogue? At the moment the odds are shifting more and more in favour of Larry (Yesterday it was 45% Kenny)

[CapnJay]

Maybe more people are just trying to keep Lee from pissing off the angry old guy and thats being counted as Siding with Larry.

[Akeashar]

Looks like the 'bug' definitely affects the choices in #2, with Kenny saying that I sided with Larry, and given the outcome of that event... yeah. I'm starting the game over from the very beginning to try and work around this issue.

[franapbsilva]

And if we tell him: "We'll kick his ass", but in the final one, "I'm sorry Kenny"[Let Him], we will side with Kenny or Larry????

[CapnJay]

I know this game remembers every choice because when it shows lees crash he shouted Oh SHIT which is what i chose