Replay Games Kickstarter / KQ/SQ/LSL Rights

[blueskirt]

We made it! We've reached $650,000 with less than one hour to go. That means a new location, with new characters and puzzles, more plot and jokes and a new girl to woo!

[KatieHal]

Congrats to the Larry crew!

Jane's campaign is getting really close--plus she announced today that there's definitely going to be a second game this year!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...g/posts/220771

[Blackthorne519]

Sigh.

Really? Mystery Game X?

Okay - I am a backer on this. I am. But this whole Kickstarter Campaign has been a bit of a shit show from the start.

Kickstarters rules explicitly say that it is NOT used for fundraising for a company - which is exactly what this thing started out as. A Kickstarter for "Pinkerton Road", a game company. So there's that.

Then, they say they have three ideas of what to do, and give vague ideas about that. Eventually, the choose Moebius, which is the most interesting looking choice of all (in this gamers opinon).

Still, it's a loosey goosey campaign. Basically predicated on the fact that it's "Jane Jensen's Idea".

That's crap - to go and ask people for money like that, without a solid plan? It's crap. And NOW, they're telling us that they're making a game, which they won't tell us the name of, but they still want our money?

This thing fuggin' reeks, and though I'm contributing merely because I want to see more adventure games produced and enhance the community as a whole, this campaign has been run poorly.


Bt

[Chyron8472]

Bt, those are reasons why I believe her campaign hasn't made a lot lot of money yet.

Seriously, she only has ~4k backers at present, while Al Lowe has >14k of them (on Kickstarter alone.)


More than a few people have said they didn't originally know what her kickstarter was for, and that all comes down to bad marketing strategy (not the least of which is having a front page banner image that shows nothing about the campaign more than Jane's photo.)

EDIT: Also, concerning the campaign's main video, it originally followed her daughter "trying to find Jane to get an interview," but Jane didn't even appear in the video until like 2/3 or more of the way through.

I agree-- her campaign really has been managed poorly.

[tomimt]

I have to agree. I didn't plegde my money among the first people, as I really had hard time grasping what I was going to get with the money. There was talk about three games, but the amount the were gathering was so small, I didn't think it was realistic.

[corruptbiggins]

I thought it was pretty clear at the start. Jane Jensen was wanting to get at least one adventure game made. That's all I needed to understand. I went straight for the $50 level because it offered the most for my budget, with at least one game and a kid's ebook/game included. The additions to that level have only sweetened the deal, plus the guarantee of a second adventure game.

It's certainly a hell of a lot less ambiguous than Tim Schafer's kickstarter.

[Blackthorne519]

Yeah, they said they wanted to make one adventure game, but it should have been clear from the start. This thing was just launched into, and decisions were made along the way as to what would happen. It's just a bit slipshod. I know they have big ideas, but they should have picked one game from the start - talked about how they needed funding for that game, and if it was succesful it would "Kickstart" a company and the concept of Community Funded Gaming.


Bt

[Irishmile]

They made it seem from the start that they were making more than one game hence the wording that you get the choice of ONE game they make during the year... or higher tiers get ALL the games that year... Pretty much implies that we would be funding more then one game...

Now they are saying they got some other funding from elsewhere to make game X and that we are just paying for Moebius and we are getting game x as a bonus..... We were already getting two games... Should that secret funder and secret game be separate from the games we are funding anyway? What happened to the second game the Kickstarters where funding?

also... Josh Mandel and Al Lowe mentioned Jane's kickstarter multiple times asking people to help fund her project as well, I do not think anyone from Jane's camp returned the favor.. sort of tarnishes my enthusiasm in Jane's project to be honest.

Still looking forward to it.. and still funding generously ($100) but I sort of feel like they are purposely misleading us.... I think they want people to think they got the rights to make Gabriel Knight as their game x to try and get people to pledge more money.

I am looking forward to her games whatever they may be.. but I do not like being taken for a fool.

[corruptbiggins]

Originally Posted by Irishmile

They made it seem from the start that they were making more than one game hence the wording that you get the choice of ONE game they make during the year... or higher tiers get ALL the games that year... Pretty much implies that we would be funding more then one game...

At the start of the campaign only one game was promised if the main Kickstarter target was achieved and if $600k was raised then a second game would be made as well, out of the 2 remaining project ideas (what was left after Mobius was chosen as the first game). Once it look like it'll barely hit $300k let alone 600 I guess they thought that they would rather get outside funding for the second game rather than hope they double the Kickstarter fund.

As the 2nd game is being funded from an external publisher then I would imagine it's less likely that it'll be either of the two remaining game ideas (if it is one of them then it's probably Gray Matter 2 as that would be a better choice for an outside publisher). Simply there isn't a lot we know about the mystery project and that's probably due to the fact that an external publisher is funding it. Hopefully we'll find out if it's a publisher pushed idea or an idea that Jane has taken to a publisher and they've said yes to it. As much as I would like Gabriel Knight 4 I highly doubt it'll happen this year - I feel Activision are a bit more stingy and restrictive when it comes to lending out their licences.

[Irishmile]

Yup... You're right... she said that in update 3.

[tomimt]

But still, the beginning of Jane's kickstarter was some what unclear of its goals. It has turned clearer as the time has progressed, but for a while in example the cycle idea was hard to get. They were talking about time span of a year, but the question of if the games aren't done by that time was never really answered, or at least I didn't notice it anywhere.

[thom-22]

Originally Posted by corruptbiggins

It's certainly a hell of a lot less ambiguous than Tim Schafer's kickstarter.

That's ridiculous. The only thing unknown about the Double Fine Kickstarter was the nature of the game. There was no ambiguity about what backers would be getting -- an adventure game designed by Schafer and Gilbert to be released later this year by a studio with a solid decade-long track record for shipping distinctive, quality games. That was sufficient information for 87,000+ people and $3+ million. Jensen doesn't have the same kind of status, and claiming the Double Fine project was ambiguous smells like sour grapes to me.

That said, I believe Jensen was earnest about her plan for Community Supported Gaming. It's just not something that comes across well as a Kickstarter project. I'm not really sure the idea of subscribing to a studio for a fixed time period would ever catch on among gamers, outside of the designer's hardcore fans.

In any event, I'm very glad Jensen found additional sources of funding and hope the development of her studio's game(s) goes much more smoothly than her Kickstarter project.

Originally Posted by Irishmile

also... Josh Mandel and Al Lowe mentioned Jane's kickstarter multiple times asking people to help fund her project as well, I do not think anyone from Jane's camp returned the favor.. sort of tarnishes my enthusiasm in Jane's project to be honest.

I'm almost certain Jensen mentioned the Lowe-Mandel project (and possibly the Crowe-Murphy project as well) in one of her videos posted on the Kickstarter page, but I don't have time to verify that now.

[Irishmile]

Originally Posted by thom-22

I'm almost certain Jensen mentioned the Lowe-Mandel project (and possibly the Crowe-Murphy project as well) in one of her videos posted on the Kickstarter page, but I don't have time to verify that now.

No need I will take your word for it.. and its good to hear.

[KatieHal]

While I see some of the points of the arguments that her KS is less clear, etc, I completely disagree about it being poorly planned or a shitshow. If anything, she has proven she's paying very clear attention to what people want and are asking for: there are a ton of updates, the CSG model she had a clear idea of ahead of time. Maybe it could've been communicated better, sure, but I get no impression that she didn't have a solid plan going in.

They made it clear--year subscription, one game planned, maybe two. Then, without having hit that 600K, there's already now going to be a second game after all. How is that poor planning or a badly run KS?

[Blackthorne519]

Paying attention to what people wanted? That's not the point - to say "Hey, I have somewhat of an idea - send money and we'll make it clear."

It should be a specific project. This whole thing was amorphous from the start - I only pledged once Moebius was chosen as the game, because at that time it became clear to me. Kickstarter isn't just to throw a bunch of other people's money into a pot and see what happens; it's to fund a specific project.

Bt

[corruptbiggins]

Originally Posted by thom-22

That's ridiculous. The only thing unknown about the Double Fine Kickstarter was the nature of the game. There was no ambiguity about what backers would be getting -- an adventure game designed by Schafer and Gilbert to be released later this year by a studio with a solid decade-long track record for shipping distinctive, quality games. That was sufficient information for 87,000+ people and $3+ million. Jensen doesn't have the same kind of status, and claiming the Double Fine project was ambiguous smells like sour grapes to me.

The point I was making when calling the Double Fine ambiguous was that we had (and still have) no real clue what the game will be about, except that it's an adventure game. At least with Jane Jensen's project she provided three adventure game ideas and the guarantee that one of those will be made if the target was reached.

You say that Jensen doesn't have the same kind of status as Tim Scahfer? Well that's just wrong. OK her current company is unknown because it has just started but no one could argue that she doesn't have a history of making quality adventure games. Sure Schafer has had more well known games made recently than Jensen has but his last adventure game was 14 years ago! Jensen's last, on the other hand, was just two years ago. Oh and about that decade long track record? From 2000 to 2009 Double Fine released two games.

[KatieHal]

As corruptbiggins says--we had much more info on what Jane wants to do and has planned than we did about Tim Schafer and Double Fine.

Incidentally, she's also now announced fellow Sierra alum Andy Hoyos is going to be the Art Director of the game: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...g/posts/222486

[Blackthorne519]

Andy Hoyos on Moebius? That's awesome pedigree.

I still think the Kickstarter was maybe started a bit too soon. Though I do have some mixed feelings about it, I'm glad that a new adventure game is coming out.


Bt

[thom-22]

Originally Posted by corruptbiggins

The point I was making when calling the Double Fine ambiguous was that we had (and still have) no real clue what the game will be about, except that it's an adventure game.

That's not ambiguity; it's a deliberate unknown and it was part of the appeal and the fun of the DFA Kickstarter, at least to 87,000 of us.

Originally Posted by corruptbiggins

At least with Jane Jensen's project she provided three adventure game ideas and the guarantee that one of those will be made if the target was reached.

It was one or two of three possible games, then it was a particular game, oh, wait, now it's a particular one of the three games plus a second mystery game... That's ambiguity. And I'm not necessarily saying that's a huge problem in itself, but it's compounded by how she structured the reward tiers. A lower tier was for one game and a higher tier was for a subscription, but until just recently it didn't look like a subscription would be much more than one game.

Originally Posted by corruptbiggins

You say that Jensen doesn't have the same kind of status as Tim Scahfer? Well that's just wrong.

LOL. It's right there in black and white on the respective Kickstarter pages. Did I mention 87,000?

Originally Posted by corruptbiggins

OK her current company is unknown because it has just started but no one could argue that she doesn't have a history of making quality adventure games. Sure Schafer has had more well known games made recently than Jensen has but his last adventure game was 14 years ago! Jensen's last, on the other hand, was just two years ago.

I didn't argue that Jensen doesn't have a history of making quality adventure games; nor did I imply that her status is akin to chopped liver. It simply isn't the same kind or level of status that Schafer and Gilbert have. The fact that they have designed games outside of the adventure genre is a positive, not a negative, in terms of attracting Kickstarter money.

Originally Posted by corruptbiggins

Oh and about that decade long track record? From 2000 to 2009 Double Fine released two games.

Double Fine's first major game was 2005 and it's 2012 now, so I confess calling it ten years was imprecise. But, really, using the literal decade 2000-2009 just makes you sound desperate and defensive.

And that's sad, because there's no reason Jensen's fans should be defensive. I'm glad Jensen is back making adventures. She put forward some interesting game ideas that many people seem to find appealing, including some who find them more appealing than DFA. You're really not doing Jensen any service by making up criticisms of DFA. What do you expect that to get you?

[corruptbiggins]

I'm not making anything up and I have nothing against the DFA (being a backer of that myself). I just get annoyed by unfounded comments and it's seems that in the gaming forums that I go on (admittedly not a huge amount) that have threads about Jane's Kickstarter it's always the same argument and I just thought adventure game players are a bit more savvy and knowledgeable about things like this. I mean it really wasn't that hard to figure out what you were getting.

I do like how defensive the ardent DFA supports get when anyone dares to question a single thing that Schafer or Gilbert does (and I love how Gilbert always gets trotted out when he's at Double Fine to work on his own game and is, from what I've read and seen, mainly a consultant on the DFA).

And the decade long thing, I wasn't referring to the fact that you were imprecise, just that for the first 9 years of Double Fine only two games were made (I do concede that a lot of it wasn't their fault, the publishers didn't help) and it was when they started to make smaller games that got released quickly that they started to look more like a successful(ish) company.