Derek Karlavaegen

[BagginsKQ]

My taint itches.

[Blackthorne519]

Originally Posted by BagginsKQ

In comparison, you are a nobody!

True, I am a nobody - but my opinion matters to me. And Derek Kalavageenanana is lame.

What is Peter Spear up to today?


Bt

[BagginsKQ]

Take your pick;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:T...uest_Companion

Peter Spear used to live in Mill Valley, CA. He died in 1998 during the storms that were wrecking havoc on Marin County. The last phone call I had with him was in 1998, and he told me a tree went through his roof. I found his phone listing again in 2004, and Al Lowe, Leisure Suit Larry's creator, and I discussed it via e-mail, and I telephoned the number on a Sunday evening. Virginia Soper answered and informed me Peter had died six years earlier. I informed her Mr. Spear taught everything about being an author and helped me all during high school with assignments and ethics in proper manners and behavior. I told her I thank him for that and she said good-bye and the phone call ended. I told Al, and he told Ken Williams, and that was that. We all went separate ways thereafter. Coffee4binky (talk) 09:11, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Not that I'd trust anyone with a name like "Coffee4binky". BTW, for anyone wondering Virginia Soper is the wife of Peter Spear.

...or he's living the highlife near San Franscisco. Big house, etc. He apparently still has a large collection of KQ memorabilia/concept material he received from Roberta and Ken Williams themselves. Big stories about his friendship with the Williams... and he had been hobnobing around with Cesar Bittar back in 2006...

http://web.archive.org/web/200701062...e.com/journal/

[Chyron8472]

Originally Posted by Blackthorne519

The games are the games. Derek Wahtshisnutts is just a bit of outside fun, but he has no bearing on the games what-so-ever. [...] I don't need all kinds of information, back stories or nunsuch to let me enjoy the games. Some people dig it; I never give it a thought when I'm playing.

I agree.

Originally Posted by BagginsKQ

You obviously haven't played KQ6...

Ferryman (KQ6 script): "The island's currents keep us pretty isolated. I can only recall three visitors in my lifetime. When I was a boy a wanderer came, Alhazred himself arrived many years ago, and now you. We have almost no contact with the outside world, but we're content with our little kingdom. At least, we always were in the past."

[WALL OF TEXT]

I don't think you understand Blackthorne's point. From his perspective (and mine), the games (the core 7, for my own part) are what matters; the rest of the materials are periphery. Sure, they can be interesting and fun. But I think he's trying to say that the KQ Companion has little to no more bearing on the canon games than perhaps the fan-made games do.

With that in mind, that ferryman quote (which is only on the Amiga version, btw--I had to look it up because I didn't remember it) says nothing of who visited the Land of the Green Isles before Alexander, nor does it make a difference to know as the ferryman's point was only to convey their isolation.

Frankly, I look at the KQ Companion like I do the Hyrule Historia. It's extra stuff that someone (or several someones) wrote who thought it would be fun to expand on its franchise's universe. I don't consider it important when it comes to the games (or even valid in some cases, such as the case of the 3-part Zelda timeline--seriously, Link dying is not a required part of the OOT story.)

[BagginsKQ]

With that in mind, that ferryman quote (which is only on the Amiga version, btw--I had to look it up because I didn't remember it) says nothing of who visited the Land of the Green Isles before Alexander, nor does it make a difference to know as the ferryman's point was only to convey their isolation.

Actually run SciViewer, and you'll find its in the pc version too even on the CD version, along with some other bits of narrative that you can't access in the game for whatever reason. I think they even did the voiceovers for it... It's just strangely not accessable.

I think Chyron you and Blackthorne missed my point, from the getgo... My point is that the manual that is needed for KQ6, the Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles, needed for copy protection is by "Derek Karlavaegen". It's a required part of the game... Ignoring the Companion for a moment, you can't ignore the Guidebook... It comes with every version of KQ6 in a printed or PDF form.

BTW, I don't appreciate both of you hijacking this thread, to complain about the KQ companion, when this thread was more about the Manual material like the Guidebook, or the short stories included in the early KQ manuals.... That stuff in the first six KQ games wasn't "periphery" it made up and was required for the complete KQ experience (how else would you learn more about Edward, more about his wife, more about the three treasures, those who stole them, more about Hagatha, Manannan, Gerwain, etc. Infact some of it even offered a clue on what to do in the game, setting up direct objectives). If anything that's that's the version of "Derek Karlavaegen" that even matters as far as the games are concerned...

BTW, frankly mainly mentioned the Guidebook of the Land of the Green Isles in my initial post, but didn't directly mention the "Companion" (though I did mention the 'periphery' extended history of him beyond the companion just to explain how and why he ended up being used in the games by developers of KQ6) That stuff is less important, to the initial question of having additional pack in material added to the game. "feelies" if you will, to use the term invented by Infocom for packin material to describe these types of manuals (or other things added to the game for value).

Frankly if you don't care about those kind of packins, what's the point of you even coming into this thread? Troll?

Troller?

Troller is looking for a response...ANY response, and he will chum the waters with complaints, insults, compliments, and inflammatory tidbits hoping that someone...ANYONE, will take the bait. Generally quite harmless - practices a form of catch and release. Nonetheless, he can upset the delicate ecology of a discussion forum. Once a forum becomes aware of his presence, however, all feeding activity ceases and Troller must move on to more promising waters.

Also calling KQ8 "peryphery", and not part of the "core" of the series...

You might want to check again;

http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/...ad.php?t=30223

[Anakin Skywalker]

I think everyone is forgetting that the Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles is actually IN KQ6. In Alhazred's trunk, actually. It is mentioned by name as being among Alhazred's possessions IN THE GAME, with a comment from the narrator saying that book would've been of aid to Alexander. I think that enough confirms Derek's existence in the KQ universe.

From KQ6:

Narrator: "A few worn leather books occupy the trunk. The top one is entitled "Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles. A book like that might have been a big help when Alexander first arrived! The trunk's owner obviously found it interesting, too, for the guidebook is dog-eared and stained."

Also, Jane Jensen, who co-designed and co-wrote KQ6, ALSO wrote the Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles, which was "written" by Derek and came packaged with KQ6. It's not just fan fiction stuff.

[BagginsKQ]

Anakin, its not just that, but there are other references within KQ6 (self-contradictory to the above quote you mentioned) where the narrator explains 'Alexander read about that in the Guidebook', or explains that Alexander, 'the journeyer, needs to check out the guidebook', as if he has a copy on himself.

Here is an example;

"Reading about the Ancient Ones in the "Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles" may help a puzzled journeyer.",

Basically its the only explanation for how Alexander translated the text on the Cliffs of Logic, and knew about the riddles of the traps in the Catacombs in order to get past them.

[Anakin Skywalker]

Originally Posted by BagginsKQ

Anakin, its not just that, but there are other references within KQ6 (self-contradictory to the above quote you mentioned) where the narrator explains Alexander 'read about that in the Guidebook', or tells Alexander to 'check out the guidebook', as if he has a copy on himself.

Basically its the only explanation for how Alexander translated the text on the Cliffs of Logic, and knew about the riddles of the traps in the Catacombs in order to get past them.

Well, remember, in KQ6, WE (the player) are Alexander, just as we are the protagonist in all the KQ games. We're stepping into his boots. He may not have the Guidebook, but we do, and we help him finish his journey with it.

[BagginsKQ]

From the KQ6 Hintbook published by Sierra;

Did you figure out;
""That Alhazred found a copy of the "Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles," and that was why he decided to come to this kingdom and take over?", KQ6 Hintbook, pg 74

Well, remember, in KQ6, WE (the player) are Alexander, just as we are the protagonist in all the KQ games. We're stepping into his boots. He may not have the Guidebook, but we do, and we help him finish his journey with it.

Fourth wall much? Suspension of disbelief?

[Anakin Skywalker]

Originally Posted by BagginsKQ

From the KQ6 Hintbook published by Sierra;

Did you figure out;
""That Alhazred found a copy of the "Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles," and that was why he decided to come to this kingdom and take over?", KQ6 Hintbook, pg 74



Fourth wall much? Suspension of disbelief?

Doesn't the KQ series feature both in small amounts? I mean KQ6 is a game where if you knock Alexander off the cliffs enough times he'll tell you to stop making him do that.

[BagginsKQ]

Only in the first three games, which was more 2nd person narration (see things like the note on the tree, or the hole in the rock, or the message behind the tapestry). In those games you were the character, you weren't a player controlling the character. It was very clear that "you are Graham" or "you are Gwydion" and your knowledge is supposed to be nearly as limited as their own!

It was pretty much eliminated in the fourth, where the perspective changed to Rosella's with a more third person style narration (not counting a few easter eggs such as if you try to use naughty words, and the notes in the bottle found in the whale)... The the one example you use in KQ6 is an 'easter egg', and not part of the story.

One may argue that the death voiceovers in KQ7 are the protaganists either talking to themselves or to you as the player... But its not meant to totally 'break the fourth wall'.

Roberta also said in interviews that stories had to make sense from the perpective of the person in the world. They aren't being pushed forward by the 'hand of god'... That's why many point out the logical issue, behind Alexander choosing the right genie bottle in KQ6, yet never having saw the bottle himself... Or puzzles like Graham giving the bottle to the witch, since he never knew it had a genie in it! Those are examples where Roberta even contradicted herself!

Now if you want fourth wall breaking, and its intentional, even beyond what was seen in KQ1-3, go play Space Quest! The narrator would poke fun at the player, Roger Wilco,. Wilco would acknowledge the narrator, etc. Or you can play TSL...

[Chyron8472]

Originally Posted by BagginsKQ

Also calling KQ8 "periphery", and not part of the "core" of the series...

It's an action adventure game whose emphasis is on combat, not a point-and-click adventure game whose emphasis is on puzzles. The gameplay and focus is entirely different, so no don't consider it a core title. Though I wouldn't call it periphery so much as simply a spin-off.

Originally Posted by Anakin Skywalker

I think everyone is forgetting that the Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles is actually IN KQ6. In Alhazred's trunk, actually. It is mentioned by name as being among Alhazred's possessions IN THE GAME, with a comment from the narrator saying that book would've been of aid to Alexander. I think that enough confirms Derek's existence in the KQ universe.

Hmm. Well okay then, I'll accept that.

[Anakin Skywalker]

Originally Posted by Chyron8472

It's an action adventure game whose emphasis is on combat, not a point-and-click adventure game whose emphasis is on puzzles. The gameplay and focus is entirely different, so no I don't consider it a core title.


Hmm. Well okay then, I'll accept that.

You have to remember though that in the early KQ games you could kill. In every instance with a major bad guy in KQ1 for example, you could either kill them or dispatch them without killing them. You could either stab the dragon in the throat with your dagger, or douse it's flame with water; You could either kill the Giant hoarding the Chest and take the Chest or wait till he fell asleep and snatch it. You had to kill the Witch to survive, no options there. You had to drown the Troll to get to the Island, no options there. And in the adventure genre in general, in the early adventure games, combat was a part of it--killing--in the old text adventures.

And KQ8 has plenty of puzzles as well. I'd say it's 50/50 puzzles and combat.

[BagginsKQ]

It's an action adventure game whose emphasis is on combat, not a point-and-click adventure game whose emphasis is on puzzles. The gameplay and focus is entirely different, so no don't consider it a core title. Though I wouldn't call it periphery so much as simply a spin-off.

Again, your 'intepretation is off".... The emphasis was on adventure, with combat added. Much like Quest for Glory... But that's brought up over and over, in interviews, and on the KQ8 website, and the box even... Combat was an 'addition', not an 'emphasis'...

It was never meant to be a 'spin-off', and was always stated to be KQ8. It was stated as such on the website...

Only people who lie or are ignorant claim it was 'meant to be a spin-off'.

Again check out the thread; Never mind I'll repost her;

found one of the only captures of the old KQ8:MOE forums, and a capture of the main King's Quest forums on Sierra's defuct website. It's interesting to note that in the forums Sierra officially listed the game as King's Quest VIII: The Mask of Eternity.

This forum was up for a while it it was shut down in the mid 2000s, when Sierra closed. These archive captures are from about 2004.

King's Quest VIII: The Mask of Eternity at the Sierra Forums



King's Quest Sierra Forums


Also another detail I discovered was on the official KQ8 website;

King's Quest: Mask of Eternity website

Once may notice that the browser tab for the page is listed as KQ8: Mask of Eternity.



If you hover the cursor over the headers of each page, you get popup message like this;



If you go into some of the information on the website as well, there are references from Mark Seibert and links to interviews where he calls the game King's Quest 8 as well.

So Sierra was actively advertising the game as King's Quest 8 at the time.

Also an interesting bit of trivia is that in the game files there are two folder groups in each level folder, that are named ''8Bit'' and ''8Gui''. This is a nod to the game being KQ8. The first folder holds the 16-bit bitmap artwork textures, and the second folder holds the 'graphical user interface' files.



It's a bit a myth when fans lie (ya some fans are a bunch of liars and cheats) and make the false claim that "Sierra never considered this game "KQ8"". When in fact they were advertising it as KQ8 all over the place (and it even exists in the files).

To this day Roberta Williams and Ken Williams still refer to it as King's Quest 8/VIII.

It's interesting to note that the choice to leave off the number on boxart, is shared with other games produced between 1990 and 1998 such as The Beast Within: A Gabriel Knight Mystery (aka GK2), Quest For Glory: Shadows of Darkness (aka QFG4), The Lost Secret of the Rainforest (EcoQuest 2), Police Quest: Open Season (aka PQ4), Police Quest: SWAT (PQ5), Police Quest: SWAT 2 (PQ6), etc.

[BagginsKQ]

You have to remember though that in the early KQ games you could kill. In every instance with a major bad guy in KQ1 for example, you could either kill them or dispatch them without killing them. You could either stab the dragon in the throat with your dagger, or douse it's flame with water; You could either kill the Giant hoarding the Chest and take the Chest or wait till he fell asleep and snatch it. You had to kill the Witch to survive, no options there. You had to drown the Troll to get to the Island, no options there. And in the adventure genre in general, in the early adventure games, combat was a part of it--killing--in the old text adventures.

Keep in mind those random encounters have nothing to do with puzzles,and they were as Roberta describes in the KQ1 manual and the hintbook she wrote, "arcade sequence". Just something to get in your way, and avoid! (the mazes in the early games were also considered 'arcade/action' sequences)

For that matter, "kill character' was a viable action for nearly every enemy in the game. But you got a return message, such as "you're combat skills are insufficient, and blank would pulverize you before you had a chance". So its not like it tells you can't do it, just that you are incapable of fighting off the monster... Infact if you do get into a fight (represented by a cloud of smoke), you get clobbered!

I think Roberta once said if she had a chance to remake KQ1 with 'todays' (being relative to when she said it) technology (that is if she had features to allow for some combat) it would have been similar to KQ8!

[Chyron8472]

Originally Posted by BagginsKQ

Only people who lie or are ignorant claim it was 'meant to be a spin-off'.

You're not going to sway me there. It doesn't look or feel at all like the rest of the series.

Originally Posted by Anakin Skywalker

You have to remember though that in the early KQ games you could kill.

Merely as a solution to a puzzle, yes. The "enemies" have no hitpoints. The only real combat the other titles get into is the sword fight at the end of KQ6, and you have no direct control over Alexander's actions in that case more than to begin and end the fight.

[BagginsKQ]

You're not going to sway me there. It doesn't look or feel at all like the rest of the series.

No one is trying to 'sway you' your opinion into liking the game... How you 'feel about the game' is your choice.

However, I can correct you on if you make false claims about the game. That doesn't necessarily mean you'll still like the game. But that's not the point. It's one thing for you to say "I think it was a poorly made game in the series, I don't like that they added in 'combat'", its another to claim "its not a core game of the series" or falsely claim that 'it's a spinoff'. You can have an honest and justifiable opinion to think it is a "weak member of the series". Just don't insert falsehoods into your opinion, beyond that.

I for example have many reasons why I thin KQ3 and KQ7 are two of the weakest entries into the series, but I would never make the false claims that they 'spin-offs' or that they are 'not part of the series'.

An opinion that is based on a falsehood, is still a falsehood, and never the truth. An informed and educated opinion, is neither truth nor false.

I would agree, that it has its own unique appearance, and feel... But also find KQ8 to have a different look and feel to previous games as well. I found KQ5 and KQ6 to have a different look and feel to previous games as well.

Each game evolved the series a little in different directions. The earliest included 'arcade sequences' (mazes, and outrunning random encounters), the middle games tended to cut them out in place of simple point and click puzzles. The earliest games rely on a typing interface, that allows many verb noun combinations and will often give messages for even certain combinations that won't work. The first three allowed you action choices such as jump, duck and/or swim (later games took that feature away for the most part).


Middle games started adding in point and click interface, KQ5 originally had both a run and walk command.

KQ7 got rid of most of the interface, and simplified the diaologue, cut the narrator...

I find there being about four different styles that KQ encompasses...

[MusicallyInspired]

"...you can't ignore the Guidebook..."

Sure you can, if you try real hard! Give it a go!

[Lambonius]

More like "Derek Karlvagina!!"

[Blackthorne519]

I did not hijack the thread to complain about the KQ companion - I LIKE the KQ companion, but I find the character of Derek Karlavagenan or whatever (I mean, look at that last name. That's pure amateur D&D fan shit right there.) to be a poorly written attempt to connect the real world with The World of King's Quest. It's a bit of Peter Spear's whimsy, and that's all.

Derek Karlavahoonanoo is lame. The KQ companion isn't; it's a fun read, and a way to enhance the KQ games, but is in no way - to me - any real part of KQ.

So Alhazered has a Guidebook to the Green Isles? Does it mention Derek K at all? I don't think so. That book could be written by anyone.

You can easily ignore the guidebook. I've played the game MULTIPLE times without it.


Bt

PS Hijacking the thread is arguing about KQ8... yet again. THAT is thread hijacking, just so you're clear.