KQ1 dumbed down the adventure genre

[Anakin Skywalker]

At least according to one review, from 1984, in Electronic Games Magazine:

Don't be fooled by the unimaginative title. King's Quest is a major breakthrough in action-adventure games. The quest itself is clean-cut and simple-an excellent primer for a novice adventurer-but it's combination of keyboard-input and joystick operated on-screen character movement blows everything away.....(goes into a summation of the game elements)....
Agan, as a pure adventure, it would hardly be worth a second glance. But in simplifying the puzzle-solving and Zork-like elements, and instead, overwhelming the player with lush graphics and joystick control over the hero, the vistas of adventure gaming suddenly open to a whole new audience.

Hmm...Good for novice adventurers, simplified the puzzle solving elements, opened up the adventure genre to a wider audience...sounds familiar.

Then we come to KQ5, which did away with keyboard interaction completely and dumbed down the game play even further, with a very simple point and click interface. Sierra did this once more to open the series up to a larger audience, and expand the genre beyond it's core audience--to make it more accessible. Then came KQ6, which placed story telling on par in importance with the puzzles...Then KQ7 came, which got rid of the narrator and reduced the level of interactivity and softened the puzzles, again, to open the series up to a larger audience and make it more accessible....Hmm.

[BagginsKQ]

Awesome find, shows you how much each KQ was pretty much considered 'contraversial' in some way.

I also like how they put KQ1 into the 'action-adventure' genre at that time. When action-adventure, and adventure genres were not really all that well defined in general.

It's interesting thing to note, but I think when Sierra opened their KQ forums back during KQ7, they had it listed under 'action-adventure' genres as well.

and reduced the level of interactivity and softened the puzzles, again, to open the series up to a larger audience and make it more accessible....Hmm.

...and KQ8 did it again, in some ways as well!

Actually you could change just a couple of words in the above review, and it could 'apply' to KQ8.

Don't be fooled by the unimaginative title. King's Quest: Mask of Eternity (KQ8) is a major breakthrough in action-adventure games. The quest itself is clean-cut and simple-an excellent primer for a novice adventurer-but it's combination of keyboard-input and joystick operated on-screen character movement blows everything away.....(goes into a summation of the game elements)....
Agan, as a pure adventure, it would hardly be worth a second glance. But in simplifying the puzzle-solving and Sierra-like elements, and instead, overwhelming the player with lush graphics and joystick control over the hero, the vistas of adventure gaming suddenly open to a whole new audience.

[Lexxbomb]

Originally Posted by BagginsKQ

Awesome find, shows you how much each KQ was pretty much considered 'contraversial' in some way.

I also like how they put KQ1 into the 'action-adventure' genre at that time. When action-adventure, and adventure genres were not really all that well defined in general.

It's interesting thing to note, but I think when Sierra opened their KQ forums back during KQ7, they had it listed under 'action-adventure' genres as well.



...and KQ8 did it again, in some ways as well!

Actually you could change just a couple of words in the above review, and it could 'apply' to KQ8.

I still refuse to include "Mask of Eternia" as a proper Kings Quest game - a spin off maybe but it shouldnt be refered to as KQ8

[BagginsKQ]

However, officially its not a spin-off, so next... What you present is revisionist newspeak, like argueing 1 + 1 = 5... (see 1984)

An opinion based on falsity, is still false... You can validly consider it a bad KQ game based on your own opinions, but its still KQ8 regardless of it is a good or bad game in the series based on differing opinions.

...but it shouldnt be refered to as KQ8

Also, you certainly shouldn't be telling people what to do or not to do in a forum... If I choose to use one of Sierra's official abbreviations for the game, that is my prerogative and choice.

Infact according to Roberta Williams and Sierra it is KQ8.

See the official sierra website and official forums;

King's Quest VIII: The Mask of Eternity at the Sierra Forums



From the official KQ8 website and forums;
King's Quest Sierra Forums



King's Quest: Mask of Eternity website





There are two folder groups in game KQ8 game files, that are named ''8Bit'' and ''8Gui''. This is a reference to the game being KQ8. The first folder holds the 16-bit bitmap artwork textures, and the second folder holds the 'graphical user interface' files.





The latest release even;

[Blackthorne519]

Heh, good lord, Baggins. You should just re-direct him to your impressive post in the Mask Of Eternity thread.

King's Quest: Mask of Eternity or KQ8 - whatever. It's the eighth, and final, game in the King's Quest series released by Sierra.

I don't care for it at all, but even though I loathe it - it's still KQ8.


Bt

[Chyron8472]

Originally Posted by Blackthorne519

I don't care for it at all, but even though I loathe it - it's still KQ8.

nope.

Originally Posted by Lexxbomb

I still refuse to include "Mask of Eternia" as a proper Kings Quest game - a spin off maybe but it shouldn't be refered to as KQ8

Thank you.

[BagginsKQ]

you are uninformed Chyron, or dishonest. You have the right to think its a bad KQ game, but it is officially KQ8. If refuse to ignore that fact, you are living in the world of Orwellian 1984 already, see "doublethink" .

Ignoranz (ingorance) in the German definition: Someone's conscious decision to ignore the facts - usually that's a facet of arrogance (or, less often, stupidity). It's more a description of attitude than state. Not knowing is only the result of it. In any case, you cannot be innocent of "Ignoranz".

Blackthorne gets it, and is entirely honest in his opinion...

[Blackthorne519]

Holy crap. You keep bringing up Orwell, dude. This is a video game, not a governmental or public concern.

Many people do not consider the game to be King's Quest 8. I barely do - it's more to me the 8th game in the King's Quest series. It's a serious flop, really. I wish Sierra had stuck around to do a proper sequel, but they didn't. 8th game or not, KQ8 sucks a large donkey dong.


Bt

[BagginsKQ]

Many people do not consider the game to be King's Quest 8.

Believing a false premise, is still false. Believing in a lie, does not make it true. Revisionism is flagrant dishonesty.

Ignoranz (ingorance) in the German definition: Someone's conscious decision to ignore the facts - usually that's a facet of arrogance (or, less often, stupidity). It's more a description of attitude than state. Not knowing is only the result of it. In any case, you cannot be innocent of "Ignoranz".

8th game or not, KQ8 sucks a large donkey dong.

That is valid opinion. It can suck or not depending on the individual. But either way its still "KQ8".

Back to the original topic, this applies to all the games of the series... There were people who thought KQ1 simplified/oversimplifed the 'Adventure' ganre, and turned it into an 'action-adventure' game... There were those who thought it 'sucked' maybe even sucked 'large donkey dong'.

Hell I remember reading articles and talking to people that thought if it had graphics, and was simplified compared to the older text-based adventure games, "It's not a real adventure game".

There were people who complained about KQ3, there were people who complained about the oversimplification of KQ5... again for KQ7, and finally KQ8!

[Blackthorne519]

It makes it true to the opinion holder, Baggins. No one is trying to write policy here - they are expressing an opinion.

Are you trying to repress opinions? FASCIST!


Bt

[BagginsKQ]

No a fact can only be 'true'.

An opinion that ignores 'facts' is false, to argue a false opinion is based on fallacius reasoning. This is standard language and rules of debate...

http://nizkor.org/features/fallacies/
For a good list of the various fallacies in reasoning.

Beyond that facts can be true or false, depending on if the facts support the premise.

Opinion does not = fact.

Hell you can choose to believe that 1 + 1 = 5, natural oceans on earth are made of chocolate, and lakes of beer, but that that doesn't make your opinion valid! Some might think you are stupid or insane? Only the ones who believe 1 + 1 = 2, natural oceans and lakes on earth are made out of water (H20) would have factual opinions. Now that's not to say someone could out there could go and make a chocolate lake, and rivers of beer... But that's obviously not natural.

You have no idea what a 'fascist' is... Actually 'fascists' and 'communists' both decide what the population believes, for them. They don't allow 'discussion' of alternative government or economic viewpoints. Orwell was critical of both.

The difference is in a debate, you point out fallacious reasoning, and then work on opinions that are based around and supported by 'facts'. Thus for example, Quest For Glory: Shadows of Darkness is QFG4 according to Sierra, that is a fact.

The opinion that QFG:SOD sucks monkey nuts, or does not suck is just an opinion, of the type that can neither be fact or fiction, as that much is subjective. Both viewpoints are valid, and cannot be 'proven false or true'.

[gamingafter40]

I remember being excited about what this new approach to adventure games was going to bring to the table when KQ 1 was first previewed as an untitled PCJr. game back in the day. The idea of alternate solutions was attractive and the visuals looked fantastic in all their 16-color medium-res glory.

I think all of the technology advances over the years did expand the possibilities of adventure gaming. KQ/AGI made visual/timing/navigation puzzles possible (Infocom had done some of these things, actually, like the sea scanner in Seastalker -- but those approaches were limited to turn-based interactivity and ASCII art.) The SCI/iMuse tools made musical scores a more compelling part of adventure games. Conversation systems and voice acting enhanced character development and storytelling. Full-motion video... well, okay, my hypothesis is not bulletproof.

Still, there are always times when I'm playing an animated adventure (or replaying a section) when I wish I could just type quickly through a sequence, instead of having to walk around manually or wait for an event to play out. And I miss the reliance on the player's imagination to visualize things -- especially in the early AGI days, evocative text and the player's mind could summon much more impressive monsters and vistas than anything the technology could present.

[BagginsKQ]

Good post, gamingafter40.

[LeChuck1986]

Ahh the rage about MoE not being KQ8. Reminds me a lot of people pretending Ultima VIII & IX (especially IX) never happened ^^.

[BagginsKQ]

Ya, Lechuck, refer to my signature! I call it KQ8 Law (it doesn't matter the thread, or the topic)...