Sam & Max 205: What's New, Beelzebub? - Reviews & Discussions w/ Spoilers

[raistlin75]

There is no way to give a good non-spoiler review, so this is just for people who have finished the game and wish to post reviews or discuss the new revelations in the game (and there are quite a few).



----Spoilers included, so play the game first-----








I just finished the game and Telltale has truly outdone themselves with this finale. It's the longest of any of the chapters which makes up for having one less episode this season. Many found the previous episode to be the best so far, but this one is the crowning achievement for the series. It's perfectly paced and with brilliant writing and acting. Of course they connect in the "future" from episode 201 where they save themselves from the lava. Some were worried that was going to be a big anticlimatic climax, but it was handled perfectly.

The big reveal of the Soda Poppers as the villians behind the whole season wasn't something that I saw coming, but it makes as much sense as anything, I suppose. When the chair swung around it could have been anyone, but they did have it planned from the beginning where the Soda Poppers were inexplicably standing outside Santa's Workshop. There's probably more clues if I went back and replayed the season.

The other semi-"big reveal" was that Bosco's mother was responsible for his paranoya over for 40 years because her store was vandalized and she hired Flint Paper to find the culprit. ...but doesn't she complain about the store being vandalized to Sam & Max in episode 204 when they time travel back to her store? Wouldn't that mean the incident happened before Bosco was born because they were collecting DNA for the baby-maker at the time? I don't want to nitpick, but maybe I missed something and someone can explain that.

One other slight nitpick, if female Stinky was just a "cake of the damned" and the real Stinky even said she didn't kill him, then she really didn't lie very much to get the coal. She may have cheated at trivia and for some reason the "Sal" she was yelling the orders to doesn't exist, but otherwise she wasn't that bad of a person/cake. So did she deserve a lot of coal in her stocking? or any at all considering she's not even human?

Satan's hints at their involvement in the future which will probably play a big part in season 3. Since the final scene (if you watch past the credits) kills off the annoying Soda Poppers for good, eyeballs floating in the lava and all, their souls are going to be in hell and future cameos are possible, but not outside of hell. I also think that Bosco now (audibly) snapped mind could turn him into a villian somewhere down the road.

Overall the puzzles were intuative, fun and somewhat challenging; not overly easy like the first season. Also the hints that Max tosses off seemed so conversational and vague. From "Let's get out of here" if you're wandering about in the wrong place to "I feel like fishing" followed up by "I can't believe the subway to hell was right under us all along" for solving the puzzle of how to get one of the game cartridges from the other side of the tracks. I really loved the indirectness of the clues because I'm not sure I would have thought of that.

I know the limit for involved puzzles is greatly hindered by the episodic format, so there's only so much that can go into them. They also write the games with no "dead-ends" so it's impossible to trap yourself in a no win situation. So whenever you get something to happen, you know it's right, while in full length games you're always wondering if you did it right or at the right time. It's very user friendly and welcoming to non-adventure game players, but I do miss the deaths and consequences that poorly thought out actions can bring.

My only suggestion would be for a full length game or even a reworking of a full season into one seamless game. Expanding the puzzles adding some scenes to flesh out the game so all the locations of the season are explorable and can be used to create more intricate stories and puzzles. You can tell that I'm missing the old long Sierra and Lucasarts adventure games, and would love to see these snack-size games merged into a giant reimagined feast of an adventure game like the original Sam & Max.

However, for this format the Sam & Max team have hit their stride in the second half of this season and have come a long way in crafting puzzles and stories. I especially like the cliffhanger endings of 203 & 204. Every episode should end with a bit of a cliffhanger leading us right into the next episode. I hope they will from now on.
I'm very happy with the quality of these works long after the adventure game was declared dead. They are only getting better and thank the gods (a.k.a. The Telltale Staff) that the adventure game is back!

[Maratanos]

Well, this is a spoiler thread, so here's my dump.

1. Gotta say, wasn't expecting evil Soda Poppers... They had been taking so much time building themselves up as incompetent idiots.

2. Full of awesome. Although I do wish that the bell-book-candle exorcism you did on them wasn't so... dull-feeling compared to the one they do on you.

3. Lots of niggling plot details. Stinky's a cake (WTF), the volcano eruption got moved to hell where it finished off the soda poppers, and for some reason "late last year" is "a long time ago" to sam. Also, it would appear that, in the spirit of time-traveling portals, the portal they went through on the Mariachi's spaceship sent them forward in time. No other way they could have experienced the timeline they did and still end up with the finale in September. Momma Bosco, as I expected, hired a PI to try to find her own son, and we team up with Satan to restore the natural order of things. Hell freezes over (in one of the more bizarre scenes). And of course, we finally get to see how the first several episodes tied in in a more-than-trivial fashion. Plot summary in retrospective of the season follows.

• Soda Poppers send SCP to Santa (meant to go to Satan) to improve productivity
• Events of Ice Station Santa, which include:
• Sam and Max, via the Ghost of Christmas Future, save themselves from the pit.
• Mr. Spatula is sent back from hell to arrange a volcanic eruption so that the Mariachis will be summoned and get their stone heads
• Events of Moai Better Blues
• Volcanic Eruption triggers abduction of Moai heads, goes through portal.
• Jurgen is hired as a contractor to collect souls for Hell with his Soul-crusher
• Events of Night of the Raving Dead
• Bosco, Jurgen are abducted by Mariachis
• Events of Chariots of the dogs include:
• Momma Bosco's store is wrecked in the sixties by time traveling bosco, triggering Flint's investigation
• Egg is received from future Sam & Max in exchange for Boxing Betty Remote
• Sam and Max go back in time and prevent the Mariachis from playing for the Soda Poppers, get stuck in past and rewrite the latter section of Season 1 in ways unknown
• Typewriter Ribbon is sent back to table in Jurgen's Castle
• Featherly is removed from the beginning of time, where he was sent while filming Midtown Cowboys, the movie
• Egg is placed in the beginning of the universe, causing life to form when the spaceship self-destructs and causes the big bang
• Sam and Max go through portal, wind up in Hell's subway station
• Events of What's New, Beelzebub, which include:
• Sam gives egg laid by featherly back to the Sam/Max from Chariots, receives boxing betty remote
• Sam and Max disrupt equilibrium in Hell, triggering Soda Poppers takeover, which is foiled.
• Sam and Max are dropped into the pit and rescued by their past selves from Ice Station Santa
• Volcanic eruption from Moai Better Blues destroys the Soda Poppers once and for all.

[ShaggE]

I should note that the "edited" version of "More Than Jerks" is absolutely hilarious. I was NOT expecting that.

[Jake]

Muaha I'm glad that Jared and Randy had time to get that in.

[jonathanbloom]

Wow, 205 cleared up everything. I'm both happy and sad about The Soda Poppers being killed off. I never expected them to be behind Season 2!

The above posts contain my sentiments on 205! Now, please rethink Season 3 in '09---make it Fall again!

[zterrans]

Great game, great way to end the season. Loved the reveal of the true evil in season 2, and thought it was a great idea to have Max finally answer the phone only after Hell had frozen over.

And the wedding scenes at the end were funny too, especially Max's interception of the bouquet.

[InvaderJim42]

Originally Posted by zterrans

Great game, great way to end the season. Loved the reveal of the true evil in season 2, and thought it was a great idea to have Max finally answer the phone only after Hell had frozen over.

And the wedding scenes at the end were funny too, especially Max's interception of the bouquet.

I also liked that earlier Max had made a comment expressing his opinion that Jurgen might be a girl, and then at the wedding we see him amongst the ladies trying to catch the bouquet... I love how paying close attention reveals even more jokes and humor that gets worked in subtly.

Oh, and I hope we see Grandpa Stinky a lot more from now on! He's my new favorite character (besides Sam and Max of course). His face also looks like it's been modeled after that old lady from the Bone series (haven't played it, just seen her face in screenshots.)

[smuchmuch]

Originally Posted by raistlin75

The other semi-"big reveal" was that Bosco's mother was responsible for his paranoya over for 40 years because her store was vandalized and she hired Flint Paper to find the culprit. ...but doesn't she complain about the store being vandalized to Sam & Max in episode 204 when they time travel back to her store? Wouldn't that mean the incident happened before Bosco was born because they were collecting DNA for the baby-maker at the time? I don't want to nitpick, but maybe I missed something and someone can explain that.

at the start of episode 204, when you enter the spaceship, Bosco explain how he tested the T.H.E.M destector device o n himself. the card time printed led him, in the store in the 60ies, beforehe was born (the card was printed because, later this day, the baby maker would be used by moma Bosco, making it in fact the first bosco birthday) . When he got out of the elvator, he saw his mother,he paniked and in his panicked run shoved trashed somme shelves and splied milk in the father sample tube, ruining the father saliva sample and leading to the whole Boscow thing...
Sam ans Max first arrived in the past store five minute after bosco's got in here (despite the fact he wasn't even borned at the time: ahh the marvelous language of time travel !).

One other slight nitpick, if female Stinky was just a "cake of the damned" and the real Stinky even said she didn't kill him, then she really didn't lie very much to get the coal. She may have cheated at trivia and for some reason the "Sal" she was yelling the orders to doesn't exist, but otherwise she wasn't that bad of a person/cake. So did she deserve a lot of coal in her stocking? or any at all considering she's not even human?

The coal was due to the fact she kept lying about how she obtained element of the the decor, and about all the "celebtrities" that she "met", i think.

Satan's hints at their involvement in the future which will probably play a big part in season 3. Since the final scene (if you watch past the credits) kills off the annoying Soda Poppers for good, eyeballs floating in the lava and all, their souls are going to be in hell and future cameos are possible, but not outside of hell. I also think that Bosco now (audibly) snapped mind could turn him into a villian somewhere down the road.

Wich does lead to the interesting question:
If you die in hell were do you go for punishement ? (The answer would be most interesting to know given the fact that the only place worse than hell, i can think of is ... the S&M neibourghood.)

Originally Posted by Maratanos

Well, this is a spoiler thread, so here's my dump.[*]Mr. Spatula is sent back from hell to arrange a volcanic eruption so that the Mariachis will be summoned and get their stone heads

oh, so that's why ! I though he escaped or something .

All in one, congratulation to telltale game for a devilishly good season finale.

[raistlin75]

Originally Posted by smuchmuch

Wich does lead to the interesting question:
If you die in hell were do you go for punishement ? (The answer would be most interesting to know given the fact that the only place worse than hell, i can think of is ... the S&M neibourghood.)

I do think that the Soda Poppers will be added to the Sam & Max Wing of Hell. They did die and certainly proved themselves evil enough to go to hell and they were killed during one of Sam & Max's cases, which qualifies them their own cubicle in the special wing.

[SloppyJimbo]

Originally Posted by ShaggE

I should note that the "edited" version of "More Than Jerks" is absolutely hilarious. I was NOT expecting that.

Where was this?

[jmm]

After switching the censored list, you can listen the song at Stinky's

[flipperthepriest]

I dont think bosco will become a villain because he has been around way too long, and you see him so much. After snapping he seems to go back to normal. Without clothes. Any way only be worried if he opens a motel, or a dress wearing psycho is on the loose. Those references actually made me burst out laughing. This episode actually had me laughing more than any previous episode. well done telltale! And timmy two-teeth said flipping. made my day. I feel special. And i didnt even think putting the new list up would change anything BUT the song when i put it up

[smuchmuch]

I dont think bosco will become a villain because he has been around way too long, and you see him so much.

on the other hand, the sodda poppersz were here since the first episode. but i do agree that it's unlikely to see Bosco as a villain for next season, tough. he is way to paranoid to actualy move enough out of his store to becomme dangerous.
Now, the new stinky duo , brrrr , those two are scary.

I liked the episode a lot exept, for abe bachelor party. Honestly having Flint (even considering he may have been stoned drunk) cheering before the dancing monster just seemed out of character. (I mean, flint kisses lady, real ones, dammit !)

Ps: Is it revealed, who superball worked for in 204 ? (i guess it may have been the sodda popers or simply hell but i don't remeber being precisely sais somewhere )

[V_Ben]

ah, where one loose end is tied up, another one opens, to great delight!

[Raz]

Just finished playing it, very happy with the way it worked out! ... Brilliant story writing with intricacies I could've NEVER thought of myself, still fairly easy to play, but that's OK, I had no idea how to get rid of specs till Max randomly started mentioning fishing!

Absolutely terrific, worth my very very hard earned 8.95 indeed!

Thanks guys, you make me proud!

[wisp]

205 is a lot nastier than than every game before, some parts even more than the comics. everything is darker, the humor and the scenery. the whole plot with bosco and his mother turned out to be quite tragic and he's not one of the bad guys so you don't get this "serves-him-right"-feeling. also, the first time shooting the monster made me a bit . of course it was the first thing i tried, but i didn't expect to get such a blunt reaction. it was funny, but also mildly disturbing.
the whole plotline that even reached back to 101 was awesome and a lot of loose ends got tied..well, expect for superball and the fact that it has to be the 6th of september in 205..
i wonder how much was already planned during season 1. for example: was brady culture absent after 101 because he was already supposed to be dead? and where the poppers in 201 because they were intended to be the villains. would be interesting to know..

[Maratanos]

There was one plot flaw, though. We'd already established that the Soda poppers birthday was on December 21st. But since the time elevator was in our office, that means it's September 6, Superball's birthday.

That wouldn't be a problem, except that it's apparently the Poppers' birthday in the closing scene with the cake and the candle.

[Raz]

I'm pretty sure time as we know it doesn't work in hell... it's 4:59pm there forever you know...

The calendar on the wall ...

[NHJ BV]

Originally Posted by wisp

i wonder how much was already planned during season 1. for example: was brady culture absent after 101 because he was already supposed to be dead? and where the poppers in 201 because they were intended to be the villains. would be interesting to know..

My guess would be no and yes. After 101 Culture simply became irrelevant, and I think that at most Telltale kept him in the freezer for possible later use. When they got around to planning the rough storyline of season 2 they probably did have the ^@^& Poppers in mind as villains. Keep in mind the production schedule of the seasons.

[Hero1]

Well it was a great season.. That episode was pretty long, I think it took me about 7 hours over a few sessions.. My favorite episodes this season were 202 and 204, 201 behind that then 205 and 203.. There was some really hilarious moments in this game.. Loved the bachelor party Characters who should have been finished after 1 episode becoming the evil masterminds behind 2 seasons of games? Can't say I was happy about that.. The final scene was pretty sweet though, I enjoyed that.

Overall season 2 was a very nice improvement on season 1. Kudos to telltale