F*** Kenny

[Zeruis]

So apparently if you treat Kenny as a best bud in episode 1, but won't help him kill Larry in episode 2, then he treats you like you are his worst enemy. I just hope Telltale includes some scenes in episode 3 when he is relieved from his hatred and goes on normal terms with Lee.

[Sisterofshane]

Originally Posted by Zeruis

So apparently if you treat Kenny as a best bud in episode 1, but won't help him kill Larry in episode 2, then he treats you like you are his worst enemy. I just hope Telltale includes some scenes in episode 3 when he is relieved from his hatred and goes on normal terms with Lee.

I hope for this too - I suspect tensions are just running high, and everybody's patience is tested. I don't agree with everyone's assessment that Kenny either never cared about you, or that he now hates you for one single moment.

If they don't allow for some sort of reconciliation, then I am calling character assassination on TTG.

[YamiRaziel]

Sisterofshane, no, he did have time to thank me, later at the farm. But he decided to remind me that I'm not backing him up enough.

As I said if Larry was indeed dead and was turning to zombie he would be on the ground and Kenny would have enough time to smash his head. However, he wanted everyone to spend their time on his family and not some trivial matters such as Lilly and her family.
Also if you note he is constantly remind Lee that he could care less about Lilly's decisions or opinions, while she calmly states that she tries to see things his way, she just can't. She never says "I could care less about what Kenny wants"
When I played the barn episode I did believe I could save Larry that's why I did it. Even if he was dead he wouldn't revive so fast. And even if for some brief moment we consider the possibility that he could, then I'm sure they could've handled it.
I realize why Lilly would let Lee die if you help Kenny, but I can't stand the way he would let Lee die if you don't back him up. Besides it's like he can save his family without Lee.

And no, I'm not biased. I used to like Kenny until episode 2. Now I just hope the developers allow me to banish him from my group or let him watch how Duck gets bitten or something even worse. If don't think Lee or anybody else owes him or his family anything. After all Lee did save his wife twice and his kid once/twice. He is a murderer and has no place in this group.

[CapnJay]

I suspect kenny acting like a complete FUCKTARD in the episode 3 trailer because that will be dialogue if you antagonize him before that point.

[marcu5]

Originally Posted by Sisterofshane

Taking all of that into account, are you really going to judge Kenny's entire character based upon a brash decision made in an incredibly tense moment? Can you honestly guarantee that you would not make the same decision if you were placed in the exact same situation?

i could honestly guarantee i'd wait until i knew 100% if someone turned into a zombie before killing them -- especially when it comes to cardiac arrest.

[Sisterofshane]

Originally Posted by YamiRaziel

Sisterofshane, no, he did have time to thank me, later at the farm. But he decided to remind me that I'm not backing him up enough.

As I said if Larry was indeed dead and was turning to zombie he would be on the ground and Kenny would have enough time to smash his head. However, he wanted everyone to spend their time on his family and not some trivial matters such as Lilly and her family.
Also if you note he is constantly remind Lee that he could care less about Lilly's decisions or opinions, while she calmly states that she tries to see things his way, she just can't. She never says "I could care less about what Kenny wants"
When I played the barn episode I did believe I could save Larry that's why I did it. Even if he was dead he wouldn't revive so fast. And even if for some brief moment we consider the possibility that he could, then I'm sure they could've handled it.
I realize why Lilly would let Lee die if you help Kenny, but I can't stand the way he would let Lee die if you don't back him up. Besides it's like he can save his family without Lee.

And no, I'm not biased. I used to like Kenny until episode 2. Now I just hope the developers allow me to banish him from my group or let him watch how Duck gets bitten or something even worse. If don't think Lee or anybody else owes him or his family anything. After all Lee did save his wife twice and his kid once/twice. He is a murderer and has no place in this group.

Later at the farm he is more concerned with checking out the farm, just like everybody else. There's also the point that he might not even be aware that Katjaa was ever in danger - remember that NOBODY deviates from what they are doing specifically UNTIL Lee shouts for the person with the axe, and by that point Katjaa is out of harm's way. So I think we can stop assuming that he is ungrateful.

And you also assume that once Larry reanimates, that we THEN would be able to stop him. With what, can I ask? The only reason the salt block works is because he is not moving about - do you really think a walker is going to hold still while you aim to drop a heavy salt block on it's head, in such as manner as to smash it? Waiting until he comes back is not only impractical, but it is dangerous. Lily is kneeling right next to him, and I doubt she would EVER move away and stop performing CPR on him until he did turn.

Again, I have to ask you, exactly how long would you try to resuscitate him before you would believe him to be gone? Five minutes - ten minutes? Your last encounter with s corpse that turned into a walker took less than a few minutes from death to the time that it attacked you. Do you think that an extra minute of CPR would have been enough to convince Lily that her father was dead? Because I am convinced that an extra minute would have been plenty of time for a dead Larry to turn into a walker. And let's face it, with no way to restrain him and no sharp instruments to jam into his skull, stopping him before he hurt somebody at that point would have been impossible.

I also accept that saving his family may be one of the reasons that Kenny prefers to err on the side of caution, but I think your wrong in once again, assuming, that it is the only focus. You cannot deny that Kenny's assessment makes sense from a rational standpoint - if Larry turns into a Walker, you are going to have a bad time. I also accept that, from a moral and emotional stand point, that attempting to save Larry would be the right thing to do, up until you understand that you are attempting to survive the Zombie Apocalypse. RISK ASSESSMENT would be examining all outcomes and reasonably deciding what is the safest thing to do. In this situation we have three scenarios - Larry is dead but you stopped him from becoming a Walker, Larry is dead and he comes back as a Walker, and Larry is brought back alive. The longer you wait, you push yourself into having only two available options - Larry comes back as a Walker, and Larry is brought back alive. Is your safety worth it? Is Lily's safety worth it? Is Clementine's safety worth it?

And you empathize more with Lily at the loss of her father being a motivating factor, but really you gloss over Kenny's reasons, unfairly lumping him and her in the category of "You helped X, thus X saves you" situation. This is over generalizing exactly what happened. This is the way I see it - Lily is in no danger when she has the opportunity to save your life from the second Brother, and Kenny must risk his life to save you from the first. So who's moral standing is more questionable? Lily, who is willing to let you die because you "killed" her father, or Kenny, who is not willing to risk his life to save yours because you didn't support him?

And all of those things that you hate Kenny for? Guess what - you are just as guilty of them as he is. You are harshly judging him for one brash decision that he made under duress, and then retroactively change your previous assessment of him based on this one misgiving. I think that appropriately lumps you into the "fair weather friend" category.

[Sisterofshane]

Originally Posted by marcu5

i could honestly guarantee i'd wait until i knew 100% if someone turned into a zombie before killing them -- especially when it comes to cardiac arrest.

I respect you for that - lol and you already know that I deemed the situation to be too big of a risk to take!

[marcu5]

im replaying episode 1 now, and i really believe this was a grudge killing. yeah, i believe kenny was legitimately scared but larry threatened to smash ducks head in when he thought he was bitten. is it just a coincidence that kenny smashed larry's head in the first chance he got?

[PuhChewyChomp]

Kenny just had a bad day at the cannibal farm alright? Cut the guy a break he gave you a ride to your hometown and saved your life when some dick tried to kill you.

[YamiRaziel]

Sisterofshane, this is so untrue. You can't just say that he didn't see Lee saving his wife. Even if he didn't I'm sure that she told him. That isn't something you hide, especially from your husband. At the farm he had time to tell Lee he is not a good friend, so he had time to say thank you as well. But he didn't.

And no, I don't assume anything. No zombie can jump on his feet right away. He would still be on the ground, not as mobile as you apparently believe. Not that hard to hit him with that salt-lick. Plus Lee and Lilly decided that they are willing to risk the possibility of a bite in order to save Larry. They are grown ups, they can choose for themselves. They didn't ask Kenny to risk his live right? But he just disregarded their choice and killed him in the most gruesome way. I can't really understand where does your passion to defend Kenny come from. As other people said before me with Kenny there is only 1 option - His way!
Even if Lilly or Lee were bitten, which I'm sure wouldn't have happened they wouldn't die right away and turn themselves. He wasn't protecting them and he wasn't protecting Clem. He just wanted to go out as soon as possible.
If you kill Lilly's father in such a way, it is quite natural that she wouldn't care what happens to you. But if you try to save a man, it there is no reason that would explain why Kenny wouldn't help you. Except the one that he is a spineless, egocentric asshole. There were no risk there. Danny was completely focused on Lee and had his back turned to Kenny.

P.S Sisterofshane, I suggest we give word to the people as well. We kinda hijacked the thread. So I'm backing away from this topic for a while

[PuhChewyChomp]

You can't kill a dead man.

[Sisterofshane]

Originally Posted by marcu5

im replaying episode 1 now, and i really believe this was a grudge killing. yeah, i believe kenny was legitimately scared but larry threatened to smash ducks head in when he thought he was bitten. is it just a coincidence that kenny smashed larry's head in the first chance he got?

When Larry wanted to kill Duck, he was out of line. If he had been bitten, he was not going to immediately turn - there was no immediate danger from letting his mother actually check for a bite. He is physically smaller and weaker than everyone in that room but Clementine, and there were enough adults there that they could have handled the situation easily. When it's clear that people aren't going to let him get his way, he resorts to taunting and frightening them. He was a total jack ass in that situation.

Larry has one foot in the grave, and Kenny came off as calm, rational, and repentant. He apologizes to Lily several times over, and gives good reasons for why we need to take immediate action. He never threatens or attempts to belittle anybody in that situation. [Sarcasm] But no, maybe he killed Larry for some three month long grudge.[/sarcasm]

EDIT: @Yami, I can agree to disagree.

[Awesoke]

Sisterofshane, you seem to be one of the few rational people in here. A lot of what people are saying here is easier said than done.

[Sisterofshane]

Originally Posted by Awesoke

Sisterofshane, you seem to be one of the few rational people in here. A lot of what people are saying here is easier said than done.

Morality has it's place, and rationality has it's place. No one here is really wrong, but we're all approaching it from different angles.

I can guarantee you that most of these opinions would fly out of the window if these were real situations that we were exposed to. That's what I love about this game - how the human condition applies to a world turned upside down. If I had the money, I would totally invest in the comic.

[marcu5]

Originally Posted by PuhChewyChomp

Kenny just had a bad day at the cannibal farm alright? Cut the guy a break he gave you a ride to your hometown and saved your life when some dick tried to kill you.

i've saved his life more than he's saved mine. i've also saved his families life more than he's saved them.

[YamiRaziel]

You are becoming ridiculous. He apologized several times?! Who the fuck cares how many times he apologized... This is not something that you can just apologize for. And Kenny was anything but calm.

Now let's watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPR3qrMrqVs

Lee: Look Kenny... Back at the drug store when we all taught Duck was bitten, I gave him the benefit of the doubt... Maybe we should do the same now.
Kenny: That was different, Duck wasn't bitten...

Really, how exactly did he know that back then. He never checked, a zombie fall on top of his son who was covered in mud and didn't utter a word. In my book Duck had a better chance of turning into a walker than Larry. Kenny is just a hypocrite.

Kenny: C'mon, we know this guys isn't going make it...

Really, do we know it? To me he tries to convince himself
And now the most important part. Go to 1:54 second and carefully watch how Larry's mouth moves because of Lee's CPR. Now at 1:58-1:59 you can clearly see how his mouth moved differently indicating that he might still be alive.

And even if that turned out false, it was Lilly and Lee's decision, and their lives at stake. Kenny can burn in hell for not respecting their choices!

[marcu5]

Originally Posted by Sisterofshane

When Larry wanted to kill Duck, he was out of line. If he had been bitten, he was not going to immediately turn - there was no immediate danger from letting his mother actually check for a bite. He is physically smaller and weaker than everyone in that room but Clementine, and there were enough adults there that they could have handled the situation easily. When it's clear that people aren't going to let him get his way, he resorts to taunting and frightening them. He was a total jack ass in that situation.

Larry has one foot in the grave, and Kenny came off as calm, rational, and repentant. He apologizes to Lily several times over, and gives good reasons for why we need to take immediate action. He never threatens or attempts to belittle anybody in that situation. [Sarcasm] But no, maybe he killed Larry for some three month long grudge.[/sarcasm]

EDIT: @Yami, I can agree to disagree.

he didn't come off as calm to me, or else he wouldn't have preemptively dropped a salt lick on a mans head. rational would be suggesting we tie his legs up. he also tells lee to "hurry the fuck up" when lee is trying to get them out of the meat locker. he then hides in the barn when you're attacked by danny. right, very repentant.

[Awesoke]

Originally Posted by marcu5

i've saved his life more than he's saved mine. i've also saved his families life more than he's saved them.

Don't go looking for a reward, my friend. You helped save his family because it was the right thing to do.

[marcu5]

Originally Posted by Awesoke

Don't go looking for a reward, my friend. You helped save his family because it was the right thing to do.

i agree, which is why "he gave you a ride to your hometown and saved your life when some dick tried to kill you" is no excuse to let kennys treachery slide.

[CapnJay]

well we can temporarily forget episode three trailer because sometimes you have to work to get the dialogue promised in it. in fact kaatja never chewed me out about the kids